Amateur Bill of Rights? -- COTH Article by Penelope Ayers

[IPEsq]

@M0nty

USHJA does have a trainer certification program but I don’t think it’s mandatory. Younger trainers are more likely to apply for it and take the tests the the older ones. I may be mis speaking here but many of the older trainers didn’t want to (or were worried by the tests) however ALL the big time trainers I know have done it. I’m not sure if USHJA/USEF can make that mandatory or police it. Would have to get back to you on that one. I understand your last point about the riders moving up and I agar it’s scary but again I don’t think it would be enforceable. I have seen that scenario and I know I wouldn’t want to get involved with going to said rider or trainer.

I looked into the trainer certification requirements. I was coaching/training part time and not showing because my horse was always hurt. This gave me a way to be involved, and I had enough people asking me for help to make it worthwhile for a time. Because I was not coaching full time, I was not eligible to do this program. Seemed odd. The USHJA’s reasoning? “f the applicant only teaches on a part-time basis, he/she may not be familiar with the most current industry standards. Certified trainers must have had exposure to what goes into all facets of being a professional horseman.” Umm ok.

Now it looks like they are going to replace it with an “instructor credential” program. You only need to submit proof of teaching at least 40 lessons. I’m not really sure how you prove that? It’s also not inexpensive and requires a background check. What is laughable is that trainers certified under the old program must now do this program, and they get only 50% off.

Doesn’t matter to me currently since I’m sitting out to get my amateur status back, but this credentialing system is a joke, really.

[Blinky]

Re ride times-It’s pretty easy to estimate when one is going to show based on entry numbers and where they are in the order, if there are NO RING Delays. That’s the issue. Adding the day of the show should be prohibited especially at large shows.

What the industry has not grasped is that amateurs have xxxx of money to spend on a hobby. Yes, the budget is going to differ by person but few people are going to have an endless pot of money. So, when people complain about the cost it’s really for the horseshow managers and trainers to duke out. Where and who do you want our money to go?
For every increase at a show or home means someone will get less $$$ in the long run.

[Peggy]

@M0nty

… there should be someone on every USHJA standing committee who should have a dedicated e-mail to answer questions from members and that e-mail needs to be published

This isn’t massively different than a person who has one email for work and one for home. Or, in my case, several for each.

Would it be possible to set up generic emails along the line of amateur_committee@ushja.org (this is an example only) that could be accessed by one or two people from each committee and then kept but the access changed as committee membership changes?

[Peggy]

RE - boots on the ground at shows

Having ridden with a couple of barns, it is possible to do this well or very badly. Current barn is organized. If there are more than X horses going, there will be a second trainer, at least over the long weekend days. Even with one trainer at the show I have never been left wondering if my trainer is going to appear at the ring or to help with warmup. This happens by strategy, not by luck. Likewise, there is staffing so the people not at the show have a qualified person at home for lessons and rides.

[foursocks]

I thought about that when I suggested the second trainer, but it isn’t a sustainable system if the trainer doesn’t have enough of themselves to go around at a show, or can’t organize their riders/horses to manage it.

The H/J system itself, as lots of people have pointed out, is pretty insane when compared to other industries. The economics of it are really screwed up, and the lack of sustainability for not-so-BNTs is certainly a problem in and of itself.

The only thing that is clear from all of this is that continuing to do the same thing when it doesn’t work well/at all/makes people angry is kind of stupid. Ride times are possible. Getting rid of the mileage rule and resuscitating B and C shows is possible. Making our memberships mean something other than lots of fees and little benefit is possible. And so on.

[BreathEasy]

In regards to warm up and trainer conflict making ride times impossible and requiring the hiring of more assistants, what if we…warmed ourselves up…?
Set warmup fencing would help with that.

[trubandloki]

@BreathEasy

what if we…warmed ourselves up…?

I suppose then I would not have to pay my trainer at all if we did that…

[BreathEasy]

I’ll add that a lot of these problems aren’t just caused by USEF, they are caused by trainers as well.

Trainers hold up arenas for hours because they’ve trained their client base into believing that this is acceptable behavior and that the client is incapable of warming up their horse by themselves. They also camp out and claim warmup jumps which is totally obnoxious. I 100% get that you are paying for your trainers coaching at the show. That shouldn’t allow the whole show to stop for HOURS so that you get your coaching. It’s insanity. They can learn to time manage, and they would if the shows stopped catering to that crap.

[BreathEasy]

Instant cost savings right there

[foursocks]

1000000 x a bazillion agree!

[LakeEffect]

I would be curious if those who are wanting “more affordable showing” could put together an itemized budget for this activity with areas they believe could be impacted by the NGB’s and how. Until then, the argument is like asking, “How long is a piece of string?” I also think it conflicts directly with the desire for premiere footing, but that might just be me

I suppose things like eliminating the mileage rule, enforcing an adherence to ride times, trainer certifications, etc., might trickle down, but I think the largest contingent of amateurs (maybe not quite 99%) need the model that keeps this industry expensive.

Again, I say this all with the perspective of someone who shows unrated at 3’ or under, and often without a trainer. Am I 99% of amateurs? Absolutely not. I’ve read the media packets sent out by our organizations.

[ladyj79]

I think you are 99% of amateur riders though. This group just is currently underrepresented at USEF shows for all the reasons detailed in every one of these threads.

The overwhelming majority of horses and riders in the US show three feet and below, and first level dressage and below.

[skydy]

Unbelievable. Really Mr. Bob Brawley? https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/too-cheap-to-compete

[Peggy]

@skydy

Unbelievable. Really Mr. Bob Brawley? https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/too-cheap-to-compete

Tone deaf at best. And I don’t see this as a totally separate issue than the amateur bill of rights when some of TPTB(*) feel that way about vast swaths of the membership.

One of my dreams is to do a national hunter derby, a dream that seems increasingly out of reach as my horse is still trying to recover from stepping on a rock at a show over a year ago. A premier show with a Jumbotron and VIP but an awful lot of rocks in the hunter warm ups. And I am clearly riff raff that shouldn’t even be thinking about setting foot on the grounds of an A USEF show since I don’t have one or more back up horses and would thereby cheapen not only the ring I show in, but the entire show grounds.

Noting that I did feel welcomed and appreciated by the USHJA Adult Horsemanship Quiz Committee which has definitely muted some of the statements from Mr. Brawley and others.

(*) TPTB - the people that be

[skydy]

I’m sorry about your horse. That shouldn’t happen. Perhaps it will take a loss of membership from USEF (perhaps to the Snaffle Bit group with the show at the nice facility that is including Hunters) to ensure that show managers provide proper footing and for the USEF to enforce it at their rated shows.

I hope that this movement will gain traction and improve conditions for all of the amateurs that are the backbone of USHJA and USEF. You aren’t being treated well.

[LakeEffect]

@skydy

Unbelievable. Really Mr. Bob Brawley? https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/too-cheap-to-compete

This is a fabulous example of a specific line item that is so unnecessary. Even worse, the sentiment behind Brawley’s comments are atrocious, so I applaud Jennifer for calling that out. Nice job.

That said, I will never enter an International Derby, and probably never a National one, either. There are a multitude of reasons I’ll never get there, and that one line item is not the tipping point from where I stand.

I have already opted out of USEF shows and am perfectly comfortable with that. I am voting with my dollars and my lapse of membership. I don’t think they care - and personally, neither do I.

However, I still feel like I’m uneducated here. I spent some time with this document to try to understand why my local shows (which state they adhere to USEF guidelines) are not satisfying this underrepresented group’s ideas of “affordable” or acceptable. It must be geography - I’m insulated by lots of local options. Why would I compete at the same venues, at the same height, likely against some of the same people, but at 3x the cost because it’s rated? Because I have the option not to.

[LakeEffect]

Also sorry about your horse Wishing you better luck in 2021 and also that you one day get to fulfill your dream!

[Peggy]

Thank you. Horse is currently turned out at a lovely facility (his breeder) in the hopes that 6-9 months of time out without shoes will help. Micromanaging was not working. But I still want to cry every time I think about it.

FWIW I did fill out a show report, noting among other things that one trainer told me she’d removed 50+ rocks from the warmup ring over the course of the show. USEF got back to me and said they wanted to talk, but then contacted me some time later saying that they’d consider my report and some of the other ones they got when they went on a site visit. Show continues to run and was even rewarded with WCHR status. I can vote with my paltry dollars.

[MorganSercu]

Color me naive, but I can recall when the purpose of trainers was to make it possible for riders and horses to be capable of competing without the hand-holding. Grooming, tacking up, warming-up, walking courses and competing by yourself or maybe a friend/loving family member to help = a highly regarded trainer.

Oh, there were plenty of riders who didn’t know their horses well, if at all, but they weren’t the ones making a trainer’s reputation. At least not in my tiny corner of the world several decades ago.

Man, it is a shame to read what these people have written recently and find myself thinking that these organizations deserve to lose members and their money by the thousands.

To sniff at the NSBA as being “new” (almost 40 years old) and “unknown” underscores an attitude that I wouldn’t reward with my money if I didn’t have to do so. Exactly how many people “need” what USEF has to offer, when NSBA appears to serve the needs of the enthusiastic amateur? For less money? It uses the same lab for drug testing too - right? Competition between shows and organizations is supposed to be a good thing. An organization that wants someone’s spending money should work hard to earn it. Not take it and smirk, happy to be the only game in town.

Anyway, my thoughts for what they are worth from the distance of time.

[MorganSercu]

It was the word “cheapens” that stood out the most to me. Mr. Brawley, what exactly does our presence cheapen? Has the sport tipped so far into the world of elitism that the overwhelming majority of USEF members should be excluded due to being “too cheap to compete” by your standards? Do you believe your sport should be so unattainable to us common folk that the marquee classes should remain behind a glass ceiling?

I had another thought. It sounds as though USEF has a “sticky floor” problem. That glass ceiling is not a problem, if you have the money to spare.