Amateur rule: where do you protest someone’s status?

[hoopoe]

@conniemary there are no restrictions in where a rider chooses to ride, level wise.

One cannot enter a show and ride beyond two connected levels. In other words you can ride first and second level, but not first and third level in the sane show. You can ride one show first and second level then at the next show second and third.

Some people might wonder about a rider dropping a horse down levels, but I have no objection to a new rider / owner starting their experienced horse out at a lower level and progressing up.

[atlatl]

@hoopoe

@conniemary there are no restrictions in where a rider chooses to ride, level wise.

One cannot enter a show and ride beyond two connected levels. In other words you can ride first and second level, but not first and third level in the sane show. You can ride one show first and second level then at the next show second and third.

Some people might wonder about a rider dropping a horse down levels, but I have no objection to a new rider / owner starting their experienced horse out at a lower level and progressing up.

The consecutive level rule applies to the horse, not the rider.

[Manni01]

Now you confused me… the original post talked about people riding schooling shows until they feel confident enough to enter the expensive rated shows… My answer was that in a Germany we have schooling shows as well (although I think it is not even cheaper to enter a schooling show…). So if you want to try showing or if you did not pass your Abzeichen yet or if you want to get your young horse used to a show or…) you can do schooling shows…

[Scribbler]

Yes, but can you use your schooling show experience to establish your levels for accredited shows?

Can you do the equivalent of showing up to Third in schooling shows, then jump into Fourth at an accredited show?

[Manni01]

Honestly why should you do this???

[paw]

In the US? It’s the expense of the rated shows. They tend to cost a lot.

[Manni01]

Thank you

[CanteringCarrot]

Lower level tests (E and often A level…so like training and first level) are often done in pairs.

[CanteringCarrot]

No. These schooling shows aren’t super common in my area, but they’re out there. However they only offer E and A level. So training and first level, basically. Whereas in the US the schooling shows may include medium/upper levels.

The schooling shows here are good if you want to get your feet wet and learn a bit about competition without yet investing in passing your Abzeichen, registering your horse has a competition horse with the FN, and other associated costs. The actual cost of the classes between schooling shows ans recognized isn’t significant. They’re often about the same.

You cannot use these schooling shows to establish your levels for accredited shows…that I know of (never crossed my mind). You still have to complete the reitabzeichen. If you have a competition record from the USEF or BD that shows your scores in recognized shows, the FN will let you use that in place of the reitabzeichen. For example if I came with a record from the USEF with adequate scores at recognized competition they gave me permission to ride L level, after 3 good scores at L, I was then able to get my M/S card.

For getting your reitabzeichen you can use your own horse but I often see local stables/riding schools advertising courses where you can borrow a school horse to complete the course. Which is handy for people like me with a great dressage horse…but jumping isn’t his forté

[soloudinhere]

But why would you complete it if doing so restricts you from showing at a lower level even on a different horse? It seems like there would be no incentive to pass such a thing.

I’m still not seeing how any of this prevents the well-heeled from having a nicer horse or more time in the saddle than you do, which is what everyone seems to want.

[CanteringCarrot]

It doesn’t necessarily do that. For example, my trainer competes up to and at S level, but can still compete horses at L, M, and even A. It doesn’t restrict you in that you can’t ever start a horse again.

It doesn’t prevent that (your second paragraph). I, personally, am of the belief that no system can truly prevent that. Someone will always have more money, more time, a nicer horse, or even just more access to trainers and venues. Someone will always have an “advantage” and sometimes your name or who you are associated with matters, sadly.

[Manni01]

Not sure what you are talking about??? My second level test allows riders with competition level 2, (Which is actually pretty upper level, ) with horses with no placings in 3rd level and up… Why would a Upper level rider doing 2nd level test with his upper level horse??

[Manni01]

Really interested how many people you know who did this??? I do not know a single one and I have serious problems to imagine why you would do the first 3 levels only at schooling shows and then enter a 4th level test at a recognized show…

Before I entered a recognized show in 4th level I did 2 schooling shows to find out where I was… For me it was a bit deceiving… I got a 71 for 4th level at the schooling show… Yes I knew that was not the reality, but I was hoping I might get something like 60 in a recognized show… Unfortunately I only got a 58… And I showed recognized up to 3rd level before with different horses and received scores up to 65…
So I have a hard time to imagine somebody moving up only in schooling shows until he reaches 4th level…

[Scribbler]

It’s hard to say whether anyone does it because so few local riders compete above first level here. Our schooling shows advertise walk trot through second level but you can do Test of Choice outside that by special request.

I would not expect a 20 point spread between scores at our better schooling show series, and an accredited show. Especially as they are often the same judges.

Our better schooling show series have much larger classes at First Level than some of the accredited shows, especially the Gold Level. One venue runs Silver and Gold back to back over a weekend. With only two or three entrants in Gold first level you are guaranteed a ribbon from an accredited show, comparable to A level in the US. Even with a score of 55. It just costs hundreds of dollars.

The question is more, why would you show first level at an accredited show on our environment unless you needed to put recorded points on a sales horse?

[SillyHorse]

@Scribbler

The question is more, why would you show first level at an accredited show on our environment unless you needed to put recorded points on a sales horse?

I get your point, and for a pro, I agree it wouldn’t make much sense. But I know a lot of people who will probably never show above first level, but enjoy the atmosphere and fun of showing at a recognized show. More power to them.

[Scribbler]

Interestingly if I look at the Gold classes of 2 or 3 first level riders versus the schooling shows of 12 or 15 first level riders, around here folks are making the opposite choice. It surprised me too when I realized it.

[CanteringCarrot]

Back when I lived in the US I often went to schooling shows with my green horses. So useful to get them introduced to competing, but in a sort of casual way. Our judges were generally the same for schooling and recognized. I found the scoring to be about the same.

There are also some benefits to not having your score recorded. Especially if you have a green or unproven horse. No one sees your mistakes recorded forever

[skydy]

I can picture a pair but not a “group”.

[soloudinhere]

My upper level horse showed once at training level, once at second level, and then went out at 4th level. He didn’t need schooling show miles (safe, broke type) and there wasn’t a point in qualifying for regionals at those lower levels with 87 people in the first level championships so I saved the money, spent it on training, and took him out at a level where he was competitive. Don’t think that’s a very rare approach.

[BigMama1]

Very common around here with horses / riders that are going to be upper level contenders. A couple of outings maybe at First and Third just to get a feel for how they will handle the ring and the atmosphere, and then we don’t see them again until PSG. Average amateurs and lower level riders are the ones filling the classes at Training though Second in the recognized shows around here.