Amateur rule: where do you protest someone’s status?

At a Level 1 (and I believe Level 2, though not 100%) show, you only need a judge at C, at Level 3 or higher the FEI classes need to be double judged and some other classes will be double judged to fill out the schedule. (These rules have changed/been relaxed due to COVID.) You don’t typically see three judges outside of CDIs and Festival of Champions.

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Sometimes you’ll see 3 judges when there are r/R judges working to get their qualifications done.

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So you only did schooling shows until 4th level?

The question is more, why would you show first level at an accredited show on our environment unless you needed to put recorded points on a sales horse?

I’m taking my 4YO to a recognized show at INTRO next month. Why? Because I have a non-traditional work schedule and it’s the only show (schooling OR recognized) before June I can get out to without having to take time off work. She went to 2 schooling shows last year, and I want to get her more used to a multi-ring environment, and it will be much easier to do that earlier in the season than later on when it’s super duper busy at the bigger summer shows. I do my own shipping & care, so it’s not especially expensive, though double what the same two tests would be at a schooling show. Fortunately, I’m in an area where there are both schooling and recognized shows that are an easy haul, and I can go show on my own, without stabling; it’s far less expensive than recognized hunter shows, and the recognized dressage show is less expensive than a schooling horse trial, too.

Most of the time, for me as an amateur, I do it because it’s fun. I’m someone who genuinely enjoys horse showing–I love taking out my well-groomed, nicely braided horse while all dressed up, and showing off what we can do. Why are we doing this at all if we’re not having fun?

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I’ve always wanted to be a rich amateur. I managed the amateur but not the rich.

I worked for a very very rich, very, very, very well connected amateur when I was younger. That person (who was lovely person) had all the advantages; time to ride and train, training from the best, best horses from around the world, and the scores and year end awards to prove it. I personally would rather compete against a professional.

OP, I’m glad you got honest input at the beginning of the post. I’m glad you asked for opinions, always good for a reality check - that’s why I bounce my ideas off other people for all kinds of issues.

While this doesn’t help the OP, my definition of a professional:

  • honest

  • hard working

  • horse first then rider

  • sets goals

  • follows the rules

  • life long learner

A commercially successful professional usually needs to add talent, high emotional IQ and a bit of luck. If only I ruled the world… :joy:

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No, he did one recognized show at training level, one at second level, and then went out at 4th. He went to one schooling show when he was a month under saddle. That was it until I started campaigning him towards the FEI. I purchased him as a green broke 4 year old and have ridden him mostly myself for all that time.

There’s an “amateur” in my region who doesn’t ever own the horses she rides, and is “part of the team” of a well known pro rider, but as I’m sure I can’t prove she’s getting paid, skirts to the inside of the rules. It is what it is.

Ive seen that too, I know a few trainers who don’t start showing until 4th level.

you know, it’s not only $$. The rule says " Renumeration"…any sort of payment. Boarding, reduced lesson fees… it could be she is a YR working student and falls under the age of AA…?

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She is definitely an adult. And has had the ride on some nationally competitive horses owned by said trainer for several years. I suppose it could be a paid lease, but I don’t know why you’d thank the trainer publicly for letting you ride the horse if that were the case…

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This is my definition of a good horsewoman or horseman, professional or amateur.

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We’ve had times we discussed me showing one of my trainer’s horses. Even if I were paying, if I were in a situation I ended up doing so, I’d be thankful for the opportunity! If I had chosen to go for an L, for example, he had a few options I could have ridden for my scores.

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Thank you for your post showing your deep knowledge of the AA rule… It shows exactly why I think this rule is bad…

You don’t even know whether this person who is trying to make her passion work (isn’t that what is showing about???) is breaking any rules, but you still offer your good knowledge of the rules to potentially find ways to show that the person is breaking rules…

so it unites people against other people, who dont have the money to own a nice horse and show .
And the cause is a rule, which was created to protect rich people against good riding non-rich people…

I know exactly why I don’t like it…

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It may why it was created, or it may not. But if that’s the reason it was created, it doesn’t hold water any more, at least not in my very active area. While there are a few wealthy AAs who are able to buy talented horses and work with one of the many great trainers here, most work full time, ride after work, and manage a weekly lesson and/or occasional clinic.

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There is an interesting situation in the current USDF Yearbook where a woman has won a big award and comments about her operation including moving her barn to Wellington during the winters, and yet in later pages, she’s winning awards as an AA. Hmmmmmm…

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Lets do some math theory. You remember Venn diagrams? The big circle with all the little circles inside /overlapping?
The big circle is ALL the members of USDF.
One smaller circle inside it is the Junior riders.
Another circle inside it is the Young Riders
Another circle inside holds all the Adult Amateurs.
None of those smaller circles overlap.
Now the overlapping ones - These are a sub set of AA and the big main group.
The Vintage Cup riders’ circle includes both AAs and riders in the big main group.
All the various breed-specific riders who compete for All-Breeds awards includes both some AA and some in the big main group.
There are probably more smaller overlapping circles that include both some AAs and some in the big group.
ANY of those smaller groups include those who have $$ and those who do not. Those who ride big $$ horses (owned by whoever) and those who don’t. THose who have big name trainers and those who dont. THose who show at big expensive shows and those who can only afford one or two shows a year.

Why dont you complain about those OTHER groups as " protecting" rich riders?

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you can own a barn and be an AA… ?? If an owner decides to move to Welly ??? not sure how that makes her suspect…

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This topic is somewhat timely for me, although from a different perspective. I showed for almost 30 years on the Arabian breed circuit as a pro, retiring 14 years ago and starting a new (and safer :wink: ) business training hunting dogs, which was once my hobby. I haven’t shown a horse or taken a dime for anything equine related in all that time, just had my own horses to ride for pleasure.
Now that I have the time and a really nice horse, I plan to show in the sport horse classes and dressage. I’ve just applied for my amateur card and am really looking forward to enjoying competing on my own horse, for fun and enjoyment. As I asked friends to write their notarized letters to USEF detailing my lack of equine related income, one commented I may want to be prepared for some criticism, saying nobody cares as long as you don’t win. :wink:
But seriously, I’m a chubby sixty-something former trainer who keeps her horses out 24/7, has no indoor and just wants to have fun. Hopefully nobody will protest. :slight_smile:

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It’s not just that she owns a barn, but owns a training facility and seems to be training horses. Maybe I misunderstood the verbage, or the writer got some things out of order, but it certainly caught my attention.

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Is there a link to that article? Anyone can own a barn, board horses, breed horses, train horses, and still be an considered an Amateur. They cannot however, accept remuneration for training horses or teaching people.

If an Amateur has advertisements with their own training or lesson fees specified, then that is an obvious violation.

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I think you can own a barn, own horses, train horses, as long as you don’t take money for training horses.

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