Amateurs earning Bronze Medal on an OTTB?

[DMK]

Agree with RAyers, that was a complete failure of the description of a gallop. The front end is literally catching the massive thrust from the engine (and it’s an awesome feeling that every rider should experience, although my bet is very few do these days).

While it’s not the AA/OTTB question, I’m on a similar journey with an even more atypical breed. I’m a lifelong owner/rider of OTTBs who now has a fjord. Now that’s a breed with front wheel drive. You want to know what front wheel drive feels like? Might I introduce you to the light draft (and heavy)? When your breed’s existence has been defined by how well they did farm work, only then will you understand what it’s like to constantly be battling the forces of gravity

He’s my combined driving pony and we started doing ridden dressage about 4 years ago when he was trained to drive. While I’ve been well trained to train horses, and my flat work was solid in many disciplines, up to that point I owned no black tack and didn’t partake of the rectangular sand box. So we were both newbs except one of us had a solid background. The other was just… Solid.

But hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? So off to dressage shows we went, and I’m not going to lie, learning as we went…

4 seasons later he has his 1st and 2nd level scores as well as breed awards in both levels which is pretty amazing since we really only ride regularly from May to Sept and the whole month of May is spent reminding this old body how to keep the sitting trot flopping around to the absolute minimum. This summer he’s just really upped his game in collection and extension, which is good since he’s going advanced in driving this season… But it got me to thinking that maybe he could get me a bronze medal too. He still thinks lead changes are a straight up waste of time but the rest of the 3-1 test is pretty damn good. So I took him to a schooling show with an L judge I knew delivered solid comments and scored in line with r/R judges to see how it went. Mid 60’s! I was genuinely surprised, but you know, we have a few points on the table so why not give it a try? Mind you, I don’t expect it will happen with the first 2 eligible rides like 1st and 2nd, because he’s not every judge’s cup of tea, but it’s also not unreasonable that he could do it if - and here’s the really important part - I am willing to do the hard work and I ride him like he’s a good horse, meaning I ride him like I believe he could do it.

Your horse is an individual with his own set of limitations or lack thereof. My horse is the same.

But I promise you, as a breed, a fjord is working a lot more against their build to work off their hind end than a TB, so there’s no reason by definition of being a TB that he can’t do it.

[SamBee]

@MapleBreeze

I think it is possible with the “right” tb/rider combination but it’s an uphill climb I wouldn’t want to try. It’s going to be 10x harder especially if they raced and pulled with the front end a lot. And they are so fragile, and they have to stay sound…and you will spend a lot more in feed and shoeing etc. Literally you have to change how the ottb moves from racing to dressage and one is front wheel drive and the other is rear wheel drive and that change doesn’t happen by just swapping a part over night.

I find this an odd take for a couple of reasons.

We’re not taking about PSG, just Third. Really the starting level of “real” dressage. Everything up to Second is simply basic training on the flat that every horse in every discipline should be able to do.

TBs are far from fragile - look at how many successful eventers are TB. If they can out up with that stress, than a basic level of collection and a single clean flying change in each direction doesn’t seem too strenuous.

[Scribbler]

A lot of WB don’t collect easily either. They earn their points on a fabulous huge natural trot but struggle with collection. Many of them are heavy on the front end by nature or training. And by and large their athleticism comes from the TB blood.

Obviously the top ones find collection easier.

But the big difference between a TB and a WB is the size of the trot. They both need to learn to carry themselves.

Now the difference between an Iberian on one hand, or a TB or WB on the other, is that the Iberians had collection and lateral work practically factory installed. But they still need to learn to carry themselves in a different way, to stretch and loosen up and not be bouncy bull fighting ponies.

[Zonderpaard]

I had this horse too.

He was a big, rangy, raw-boned 4 yr old when I got him. It took a while for him to mature and grow into himself but he became a lovely “ladies ride”. I got most of my bronze (was riding a couple horses at the time) and all scores for my silver with him. I did all the training.

To @luckycricket123 that big uphill canter will be your golden ticket if you develop the horse well. It will make the changes easier. It will help develop the engagement in all gaits. At first I didn’t even canter my horse in a dressage ring. We made sure to get him strong enough and balanced enough to canter well under saddle before doing formal figures.

P.S. why limit yourself to 3rd?

[netg]

@Zonderpaard

To @luckycricket123 that big uphill canter will be your golden ticket if you develop the horse well. It will make the changes easier. It will help develop the engagement in all gaits. At first I didn’t even canter my horse in a dressage ring. We made sure to get him strong enough and balanced enough to canter well under saddle before doing formal figures.

P.S. why limit yourself to 3rd?

I so agree with this!

This horse sounds like one who is sound and has the mental qualities you want, plus that canter description tells me talent.

My OTTB is physically the most talented horse I’ve ever had. Super athletic. Unfortunately, not as great mentally and he had hoof issues, too. We didn’t show up the levels because he went berserk at shows. I stayed on the mother bucker the last 9 years I was riding him, but he bucked hard enough to give me whiplash multiple times. Not fun! My trainer and I felt taking him to shows and having his disruptive behavior in the warmup was unethical, so I only schooled him at home. We did GP lateral work and pirouettes, never really worked pi/pa and tempis, but when I asked the piaffe and passage were clearly going to be available if I tried. We ended up backing off work when his hooves weren’t holding up to full work so never got there. For us, the big pause in development was starting to get real collection and power off the ground from a sit behind. He’s built uphill and balanced, but his stifles and hocks are straighter than ideal. For him, it took time using dressage exercises to teach him to fold his hind legs and to build the supporting muscles for that to be a fair question to ask of him. Once he had those supporting muscles, everything was easy. My trainer used to put other students on him when they needed to learn what a collected canter feels like - and that it is powerful and jumping off the ground, just also balanced with hind legs carrying weight.

My warmblood mare has a big and somewhat out of control canter naturally. Like zonderpaard experienced, a dressage ring was too small for her at first. A whole lot of counter canter and a whole lot of counterflexed pirouette-feel canter circles (and ALL the transitions to help her sit more and learn to control her body) were necessary to improve her canter for the show ring. But that naturally size to her canter now that it also adjusts is why our highest scores are almost always at the canter. It’s fun now, but took a lot of work! Every horse is that way, and getting a good coach who can guide you on the exercises to help where you need, plus dedication to be consistent enough with your horse, are going to be the keys. Plus good luck because…horses are heartbreakers.

[petesperson]

I don’t get this. Advanced level eventers have to do 3rd level tests. Lots of them are TBs, and they often win on their dressage score. Each horse is different, and many OTTBs have the natural movement, soundess, and trainability to become outstanding dressage horses – and many warmbloods do not. It depends entirely on the horse and the training.

[pluvinel]

@Zonderpaard

P.S. why limit yourself to 3rd?

Totally agree.

I think someone is feeding bad vibes to @luckycricket123 and polluting her mind with negative thoughts about OTTBs… or someone is trying to sell her a warmblood. COTH to the rescue.

[Angela_Freda]

My first riding instructor did it, Bronze, on her own trained OTTB, sidesaddle. In the 1980s.

[Scribbler]

@pluvinel

@Zonderpaard

P.S. why limit yourself to 3rd?

Totally agree.

I think someone is feeding bad vibes to @luckycricket123 and polluting her mind with negative thoughts about OTTBs… or someone is trying to sell her a warmblood. COTH to the rescue.

This actually sounds very likely. Now that you mention it! It explains how the OP soundsike they are arguing with hidden voices.

We do get used as a sounding board for this kind of thing in COTH which is perfectly OK. I’ve done it myself a bit trying to figure out what’s true or not in something I heard

[Lunabear1988]

If I remember correctly, I have heard Jeremy Steinberg talk about one of his first horses was thoroughbred that he trained up to GP or close to it. As a teen/young adult.

[pluvinel]

@Lunabear1988

If I remember correctly, I have heard Jeremy Steinberg talk about one of his first horses was thoroughbred that he trained up to GP or close to it. As a teen/young adult.

Hilda Gurney’s Keen was a TB.

From the USDF

Purchased for $1,000 he worn Gold and Silver medals at two Pan Am Games, Bronze team medal at the '76 Olympics, and competed at age 19 at the '84 Olympics.

[Lunabear1988]

Yes we can’t forget about her and Keen either, of course!

[luckycricket123]

I promise, no one is trying to sell me a warmblood. I’m not looking for a new horse right now, but if I was I’d probably be getting another OTTB

In an effort to not write a post that was 7 pages long, I think I left off a lot of key information. I don’t doubt it is possible for me to earn my bronze working with my current trainers. They are VERY open to non-traditional breeds, and they know I’m not open to horse shopping right now so they aren’t pushing me to a warmblood.

This isn’t my first OTTB, but he’s actually a very different ride than my others, but with him, I have struggled with collecting his canter more than any other horse, and he’s arguably the most athletic horse I’ve ever had in my barn.

When I wrote this post, I was hoping to get responses of those who have achieved their bronze on an OTTB, with maybe some information on how long it took to move up the levels, how many lessons or training rides they did and how many days a week they rode.

This post has had a lot of useful insights for me, and also I love seeing the photos and posts of those who did it on with their OTTBs.

I’m really just here to try to plan out my summer horse shows and if I want to point this horse towards an event or if I want to go to another dressage show.

I sincerely appreciate all the words of encouragement and many of your blind faith in me.

For now I’ll just focus on keeping my horse fit through the winter. Then maybe in March I’ll see where we’re both at and either start focusing more on jumping or really double down on our dressage training.

But in the meantime, I’d still love to hear any more experiences people have had getting their medals in their TBs.

[pluvinel]

@luckycricket123

This isn’t my first OTTB, but he’s actually a very different ride than my others, but with him, I have struggled with collecting his canter more than any other horse, and he’s arguably the most athletic horse I’ve ever had in my barn.

Since we haven’t totally turned you off, then maybe we can enable you. Based on the above, it sounds like this might be the horse to take you to 3rd level AND BEYOND.

Everything you write says this is a talented horse. So, for your winter work, why not try working on you.

I can tell you that I have walked your shoes. I had one instructor tell me, “Quit thinking and start riding.” I had another instructor tell me “Relax” I replied that I WAS relaxed, then realized my toes were clenched inside my boots. I had Barb Strawson tell me “You worry too much.”

Are you a scientist? Engineer? Accountant? My diagnosis is you may be trying too hard…I think it is the curse of the analytical mind.

Work with a trainer on the “mechanics” of riding…but it is more important to listen to the horse and learn “feel.” Feel free to experiment. Try something and observe how your horse reacts. Then try again…and again. Give yourself permission to “fail”…eg. you don’t have to do a movement perfectly…just experiment with how you communicate. The horse can feel a fly…I am sure he can feel you.

[MadTrotter]

BTW, you can work on jumping and collecting the canter, ya know I had a very good coach tell me sure, the eventual goal is to ride the movement perfectly but way before perfection is just getting the signals and the muscles clear and fit. That advice really got me out of the mindset of drilling, drilling drilling and incorporating correct riding into everything from trail riding to “proper” dressage.

Try bounce grids, play with distance, trot into a bounce to one stride, etc etc

[Lunabear1988]

Enjoy the journey, OP

[Lunabear1988]

I used to love this blog. She does not post much anymore but she got her bronze with her first OTTB. And does well with her second. Click on Guinness on the side bar

Logic Lane "Guinness"

[EventingChase]

My sister earned her bronze on a TB when he was 6 or 7, I can’t quite remember. He had not raced but was full TB and she got him as a 4 year old. He was a very good mover with a great canter and naturally quiet and obedient. He was also very attractive, true black, uphill, and with a great, full tail (none of which hurt how he presented in the arena).

He found moving up through third level very easy and got good scores at all levels. He also had kissing spines surgery as a 5 year old. He probably could have earned his 3rd level scores a few outings earlier but could be spooky and sometimes if the score board was close to his arena he would not want to work on that side. Lol.

She had bought him to be an event horse but he was too spooky x-country so she modified her goals to get her bronze instead, and once that was accomplished sold, him to a dressage home so she could buy something that wanted to jump.

[EventerAJ]

Use pole work to help collect your canter. If you event too, this is perfect for both disciplines. I watched some upper level lessons with Karen O’Connor 20 years ago; the premise was that collection was developed and increasingly required as the horse progressed through the levels.

A training level horse should be able to canter (in balance) over six rails spaced 9ft apart. Roll the rails in to 8ft for a preliminary level (1st level) horse. 7ft for an Intermediate horse (2nd level), and 6ft for an Advanced horse (3rd level). It is HARD work, takes physical strength and mental self-discipline from the horse to hold himself in balance and hop over the tightly spaced rails cleanly. It will probably take months at each level before you’re ready to roll the rails in 6" at a time.

In the KOC lesson, after the 6 rails a low vertical was built at the end, possibly into a very tight gymnastic depending on the horse’s level-- a one stride at “double distance” (18’ for 9ft rails, 16ft for 8ft rails, etc). Sometimes one or more rails were removed from within the 6 preparatory rails, forcing the rider to maintain the canter without the poles to help.

[elizabeth_Callahan]

I got my Bronze and Silver on my OTTB that I trained and rode myself right off the track. I had never ridden to that level myself, and my instructor never got on her , so it was all me. She didn’t have huge extensions, but she was very supple laterally and steady and obedient. She was high score 4th level at multiple shows, with scores to 74% at 4 th level.