Amateurs earning Bronze Medal on an OTTB?

[anon55755751]

@luckycricket123

if I want to point this horse towards an event or if I want to go to another dressage show.

IMHO Choose the event, but train for it with the dressage objective. Serious answer. Make the hill work and conditioning and gymnastic jumping your approach to strengthening the hind end to support the collected canter. Get a jump/event trainer who can support this specific focus and let them know that your objective for next year is your bronze. Be deliberate. Then have FUN at the event, because the work will pay off there before it will at a recognized dressage show, assuming your horse is already going well on xc. Let that be the reward before you worry about a dressage show.

Good dressage takes time. Collecting he canter takes time and strength.

[netg]

All the comments about doing both are also great. I am drawn to trainers who also event, and while I was around that world I never actually competed in eventing because I don’t have depth perception- kept the big jumps to ones which would fall down, more than the tiny course we had in college seemed an unnecessary risk.

But a great collected canter is not one with a head down and nose in - it is one with the power amplifying the height of the strides so the power can help you out of a tight combination, or developing a coffin canter.

Mary King: The importance of the ‘coffin canter’ - Horse & Hound

My old trainer evented internationally when he was young, and almost all his clients had jumped 4’ in some form in their past, too. So he would describe the canter to ride based on the type of jump we were riding up to. It’s a great way to think of riding forward in collection rather than trying to bring back a big canter.

I enjoy comparing speeds of my mare’s canters as she develops. Her green canter was 12mph, basically a BN gallop. Her working canter now that she’s balanced and not falling on her face is more like 8mph. Her collected canter, however, is closer to 10mph. And her extended can get up to 14mph. Other than the green canter, all about the same tempo. Despite the shorter strides in collected canter, she launches and so ends up covering more ground. Pirouette canter, of course, is a different story!

[J-Lu]

Thanks for posting this! I rode 2 OTTBs in dressage. We used to gallop them up the arroyos in Southern NM. We’d walk up to check the footing for a couple of miles, walk down, and then gallop up. We’d also do this across the sand bars in the Rio Grand and along the irrigation canals. I have NEVER felt what I felt when those horses flattened and went into gallop mode. It was a similar feeling when I evented the second OTTB. On x-country, she was like “just be quiet up there, lady, and get out of my way. I got this”. She was sold to a BNT eventer I did clinics with. She really excelled in dressage. It was really fun when I did a recognized show that had their dressage arenas on the homestretch of a track she raced many times on. We “breezed” from the stable to the arenas. Not so much my choice. I also rode her relative, who also raced, in lessons sometimes. He was trained through 4th level.

1. OTTBs are bred to be athletes. 2) Pretty much any horse can do second level. Serious collection really comes into play at 3rd, IMO. 3) some OTTBs DO have a very low-set neck and so many are bred that there ARE some OTTBs who will not excel at dressage. 4) Many of the racetrack flunkies flunked because they couldn’t run fast enough - but are perfect for dressage, eventing, show jumping and cows. Yes, my friend purchased an OTTB who goes western now and works cows. Most of us who have ridden OTTBs are riding horses who flunked out of racing. While I love OTTBs, I have a real problem with race horse TB breeding since so many of them flunk out of racing. That’s my own issue.

[hopashore1]

Me! I got my bronze and silver medal and my I1 scores. We were schoolings bits of all the GP but then I went and had (human) twins and he’s now 21 so I just can’t afford it and he doesn’t owe me anything. He’s barefoot hanging out in a friend’s backyard but I hope to throw some front shoes back on him next year and get to some trails/hunts/hunter pace kind of things.

2nd level was hard (he would anticipate SO many things or offer things he thought you might want–oh are we collecting? Let me show you this super fun thing I learned! Cue flying change) but 3rd+ kept him busy enough. He was probably “best” at 3rd and 4th – the balance of the relaxation and engagement/power was really hard for him at FEI and that would just lead to too much tension/mistakes in shows but we did get the scores and we had some really nice tests where things came together. The collected work was really easy for him–he has a lot of talent for the pirouettes and it was starting to come out in the piaffe. A little fragile mentally though with the pressure of things but he always tried, it would just come out with some tension–he’d just want to “hold” himself rather than be really through–but he was such a trier and always felt forward and taking me places.

Happy to answer any questions. We went way further than I ever thought we’d go and it was so much fun.

[evntr95]

I am an AA who mainly events and I got my bronze in 2022 on my OTTB that I purchased for a whopping $0. He raced 10 times and had a brief career as a hunter and then show jumper before I got him. He is spooky, opinionated, and has a mean buck, so while he is athletic, I would not say he’d be anyone’s first choice as a dressage horse. As a younger horse, I hated cantering him in a dressage ring because he had a very forward, rangy canter. I also hated the canter part of our eventing tests because I genuinely doubted whether I could get him back to a trot.

I did get my 1st level scores on a different, former prelim OTTB of mine in 2015, but I used the current guy for 2nd and 3rd, earning my 2nd scores in 2020 and my 3rd scores in 2022. In all, I’ve spent 5 weekends at USDF shows over the whole experience. One weekend was showing 2nd for “funsies” in 2022, so really it was just 4 weekends devoted to the bronze endeavor. Two of the weekends had those back-to-back shows, where it’s two shows in one. Our scores were in the 60-63 range, so it’s not like we were knocking it out of the park, but all you need is a 60.

When I started riding with my dressage coach in the winter of 2018-2019, I was successfully eventing at training level with the horse. At that point I had taken 2 different horses up to prelim and had shown through 1st level. I had never scored below 30 or above 70 at a recognized show, and to be honest, I still haven’t. My goal was to make dressage less miserable and in my first lesson I distinctly remember telling my coach that my deep, dark desire was to one day do 2nd level on this horse and maybe one day find a horse to borrow to do 3rd and finish out my bronze. My coach is a wonderful human who has gently pushed me to do greater things than I ever thought possible.

I have done all the riding myself. I’d like to say it’s because I’m independent and a great rider, but mostly it’s because I’m too horse-poor to send him out for training and also because of my guy’s mean buck, my coach refuses to ride him. I don’t blame her! So I have been learning as my horse has been learning. I’d also love to be able to have access even just to school masters to take lessons on to learn the movements, but I don’t. So that has definitely made things harder and slower.

The other thing that has really made things harder and slower is that eventing is our primary focus. I moved my horse up to prelim in 2019 and have continued to event him at prelim. He gets a minimum of one hack day, one jump day, and one gallop day. That just doesn’t leave a lot of time to devote to the flatwork. And there have been periods where I’m gearing up for a big event and there’s certain things I just can’t work on because he is smart and occasionally spiteful. In 2021, I was working towards AECs at the same time we were working on the changes, but since he was in the use-them-against-me phase, I didn’t even touch that move for the 2 months leading up to AECs.

As a busy AA, I don’t get as many regular lessons as I’d like. Some weeks it’s just hard to make my schedule mesh with that of my coach. But we are currently chipping away at making 3rd cleaner and starting to mess with things in 4th. I don’t know if we’ll ever get there, but there’s no sense in not trying.

I totally understand where you’re coming from in thinking that it’s just too great of an endeavor. I still get stuck in mental traps and am guilty of not asking my other horse, who is not as fancy, for things because I don’t think he’s capable. I’ll never know if he’s capable or not if I don’t ask! But taking things one day at a time and not forcing myself into any sort of timeframe while quietly pushing myself out of my comfort zone made my goal come true.

[petesperson]

Cool story about an event rider getting her gold medal on an OTTB - https://eventingnation.com/friday-news-notes-presented-by-stable-view-43/

[TwiSedai]

I wouldn’t stress too much about people chastising you for questioning what is fair to ask of your horse. I think its commendable of you to be sure you are making the best decisions for your horse, honestly. And I really don’t understand the backlash for your question. While dressage is great for all horses, not all can or will make it to 3rd, or even 2nd or 1st. My little mare has all the heart and the best work ethic, but she is insanely downhill with a very low set neck. We can school a lot of 2nd level, but the collection required is about ten times harder for her than for your typical average horse, and at almost 18 I just don’t want to push her for it. Maybe if we had gotten into dressage 6 years ago. As it is, even with a very accurate test we haven’t quite broken 60 at 1st (off by like .2% ), lengthenings are very hard for her and she gets dinged for not being uphill (though it’s uphill to her!). She’s got awesome leg yields though, usually 7s or even 8s.

The only way to truly know, though, is to just go for it. If you have a good relationship with your horse and you are fair and tactful and patient, they tend to surprise you with the things they can do, even if they aren’t “built” for it. Above mare is one of the best jumpers at our barn, even though by all accounts she shouldn’t be. I say try it! Worst case, you will have an awesome foundation for eventing or whatever else you decide to go for.

Final point, you don’t have to pick a path and stay on it forever, or even just pick one at a time. Don’t be afraid to try new things, I promise it won’t ruin your horse if you are focusing on dressage but decide to try working equitation or even go team penning. Enjoy the journey, wherever it ends up taking you!

[Hilary]

If he has a good brain and stays sound and likes the work, of course he can do it. You’ll need to spend the time getting him strong enough to sit and learn that go doesn’t always mean more mph.

Will he ever have that giant, slow motion movement that some WBs have? maybe not, but that’s not necessary to get your Bronze or even higher.

Your post came across to me as defeatist rather than “help me figure out how” which might explain a lot of the answers. But staying sound and liking the work plus a good trainer for both of you and why wouldn’t one of the most athletic breeds on the planet not be able to do this?

I have a 13h pony I work with - she’s part Shetland and it shows in her conformation but the little mare LOVES dressage. It took a couple of years for her to build the strength in her back and her hind end to sit, carry me, and lift her shoulders but she is getting it and I can’t wait for her 3rd level debut next season. Go for it!

[quietann]

Hm, I think we need a photo of your pony - she sounds adorable, and I of course support ponies in dressage!

[Hilary]

Here she is - She’s by Popeye, so there’s the fancy dressage part, but her Shetland-esque barrel does pose some saddle fit issues. Photo by Meg McGuire.

[SillyHorse]

OMG she’s adorable!

[quietann]

Too cute!

[DMK]

@Hilary

It took a couple of years for her to build the strength in her back and her hind end to sit, carry me, and lift her shoulders but she is getting it

I feel your pain but it’s great when they finally put it together (pc meg McGuire again)

[HiJumpGrrl]

Same, girl. Same. @tarheelmd07 and I have literally the same job, and I am also 2/3 of the way there. I think I’ll be able to get the third level scores in 2024 if I can wrest my coming 13yo mare from her 13yo child’s hands for a couple of weekends

[crthunder]

I earned my bronze and silver medals on my OTTB and we are one score shy of our gold (but have a bunch of 59+ so we keep getting close!). The main attribute that has really helped my boy, Red (Raphael, JC Red Phase) succeed is his work ethic. He will try and try and go and go. “No” isn’t in his vocabulary! Our best median scores are from 3rd and 4th and we score over 70% at I-1.

Now the harder parts certainly is overcoming his conformation (not downhill per say but not uphill) and smaller gaits. The good part about small gaits is he is very maneuverable so we try to pick up points there. Now I do joke that the comments about needing more reach, etc would also require a Gattaca-like intervention of longer legs…Especially when I see the pictures of our tests and yep that’s how far his legs can go!

Even if we don’t get our last gold medal score, he is the best horse I could ever have and it has been an amazing journey so GO FOR IT!

[chestnutmarebeware]

He’s gorgeous! Congratulations on your success!

[Libby2563]

@crthunder

The main attribute that has really helped my boy, Red (Raphael, JC Red Phase) succeed is his work ethic. He will try and try and go and go. “No” isn’t in his vocabulary! Our best median scores are from 3rd and 4th and we score over 70% at I-1.

I love that! Not to stereotype, but that work ethic seems like such a TB trait.

My TB is the same. Collection is very hard for him due to his conformation but my dressage coach, who has brought many horses to GP, always has such praise for his work ethic and try. She says he “takes his job very seriously” and thinks he could be competitive at PSG if I focused on that. (He’s my eventer and I’d rather let him rock his galloping/jumping skills, since I also have a WB for whom dressage is much more natural.)