Amber Hill Ponies

[Limerick]

[QUOTE=Ashley_K;8778459]
Hello, sorry to keep all of you waiting for so long.

So! Unfortunately, I fell victim of EM’s charms and FB “marketing”, as such I ended up boarding there.

After a few months, her true colors started showing. I quickly realized that I made a mistake so I gave her notice that I wish to leave.

Shortly after my notice, my bills mysteriously increased. Naturally, I started questioning some of the charges which to my surprise were not legitimate, causing my bills to further skyrocket. I started getting threats of leins being put on my horses and EM threatening to sell them.

This situation quickly escalated to a point where I had to seek legal help. I had to go to court to get the amount reduced to the contracted prices for the services agreed upon. Needless to say, all of this has cost me tens of thousands of dollars and unnecessary drama.[/QUOTE]

First off, sorry you had such a pricey end to the relationship. That is awful. Initially, I was shocked that Mamma Mandarino is able to find customers but I guess not everyone googles trainer names before moving horses to new farm.

Nevertheless, I have to ask-did you know of her reputation that came from not only Humble’s death but the way she conducted herself at horse shows (calling other competitor’s ponies “frauds”, showing ponies that were no longer green in the greens and then going after whomever dared report them with harassing texts and phone calls) etc.

I was also horrified by the nasty way she wrote about that darling little girl that won her contest on here. She refused to attend the USEF hearing about Humble’s death and, around that time, posted bonkers crazy stuff on here.

Did you ignore all that history or were you completely unaware??

[dags]

[QUOTE=DMK;8778563]
Yup. Of course they aren’t really gone, they exist in the moderator forum. #butweknewthat[/QUOTE]

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the moderators’ forum…

[MHM]

[QUOTE=dags;8778763]
Oh to be a fly on the wall in the moderators’ forum…[/QUOTE]
The mods have my deepest sympathy and respect at all times, but especially when certain subjects come up.

[Mardi]

USEF needs a version of the Better Business Bureau.

Here we are again: a trainer with a notorious reputation, continuing on with her business and competing at USEF sanctioned shows. Clients - USEF members - have trouble with trainer and rack up legal fees trying to get the trainer to abide by their contract. Or other legal problem. Just fill in the blank…drugs ? suspension ? sale gone bad ? leased horse dies at show ?

USEF’s rules only apply to competition, but there are many BNP (big name people) in the industry who continue to operate on a business as usual model screwing clients. Something should be available to assist USEF members…they can’t be left out in the cold every time. There’s another thread going about USEF officials, their unethical behavior (away from shows), and what rules apply. What about USEF professional trainers ?

If there was a USEF affiliated BBB-type system, then at least people would have some idea in advance who they’re dealing with, file a complaint if necessary and have some recourse outside of contacting an attorney. This is crazy that USEF has no system set up to support their members in some manner.

[OGSponymom]

@Mardi;8778920

USEF needs a version of the Better Business Bureau.

Rate My Horse PRO?

[vxf111]

There’s ample information out there that anyone can google. It apparently doesn’t deter folks from doing business with “notorious” trainers. What makes you think a BBB would be any different?! The average person doesn’t check the BBB before hiring someone anyway. The information is out there. People often can’t be bothered to look. Or don’t care.

[hunterrider23]

[QUOTE=OGSponymom;8778925]
Rate My Horse PRO?[/QUOTE]

Subscription to their service costs money, and even then you may not find anything on a trainer you’re interested. I believe that BBB is free.

[MIKES_MCS]

No the BBB is not free , the only way to get info on a business is if that business subscribes for a yearly fee … Many business’s are lured into membership because they get a plaque that says member in good standing. The BBB collects info and data on members only .

[StormyDay]

Going to play devils advocate here. Especially in the hunter world, if you told people they would get great results, place well in all the circuit shows, etc, but you have to put up with some shady activity and a crazy trainer… Well I don’t think I know many people who would refuse that offer. Drugging is just so normal to a lot of people, many people don’t even know it is illegal to use some of these drugs at competitions. It doesn’t matter to them what rate my horse says, or anyone else. The only thing that matters is if at the end of the day they have a fancy warmup rug and a blue ribbon. Many of these riders don’t even know how to tack their horse up, they feed it a treat after the ride and walk off. Do you really think they care about shady business? I can tell you as an ex-hunter princess, I didn’t back then.

[MIKES_MCS]

The USEF Does have a fines and suspension list , BUT several questionable dirty deeds have gone unpunished and therefore do not make the list … The USEF would open itself up to all kinds of lawsuits if they started rating trainers and anyone who did so independently would open themselves up to liable .

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8778496]
Have we always been able to 100% delete posts without a trace? Is that really the case?![/QUOTE]

@Peggy;8778513

Responses, yes. Posts that initiate a thread, no.

@MHM;8778517

I concur.

I don’t think so - you used to be able to delete a post if no one responded. Once they responded, you could only edit.

[hoopoe]

Stormy Day I cannot give enough thumbs up for your honest and to the point post.

I do not remember ever seeing and ex- HP come here and admit the wrong of what their experienced.

Good job,
respect

[StormyDay]

Thanks hoopoe. I am pretty open about my experiences and also what I personally did wrong in the hunter world. I grew up in it, and to me at the time, and I think most people you ask, these practices seem very normal. It took a big wake up call for me to realize what we were doing wasn’t so great.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8779299]
No the BBB is not free , the only way to get info on a business is if that business subscribes for a yearly fee … Many business’s are lured into membership because they get a plaque that says member in good standing. The BBB collects info and data on members only .[/QUOTE]

Thats no guarantee. One of the more questionable “rescue dealers” to grace the COTH pages has the BBB logo on their website (under their newest business name). More then one disgruntled customer has to complain to the BBB, most screwed over buyers are too embarrassed and/or glad to be done with them to bother…and if they wait too long, the dealer changes their business name again and you can’t track past issues under previous or current alternative names that were not BBB recognized

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8779302]
Going to play devils advocate here. Especially in the hunter world, if you told people they would get great results, place well in all the circuit shows, etc, but you have to put up with some shady activity and a crazy trainer… Well I don’t think I know many people who would refuse that offer. Drugging is just so normal to a lot of people, many people don’t even know it is illegal to use some of these drugs at competitions. It doesn’t matter to them what rate my horse says, or anyone else. The only thing that matters is if at the end of the day they have a fancy warmup rug and a blue ribbon. Many of these riders don’t even know how to tack their horse up, they feed it a treat after the ride and walk off. Do you really think they care about shady business? I can tell you as an ex-hunter princess, I didn’t back then.[/QUOTE]

This had occurred to me to.

I have certainly seen people start up business dealings or even friendships with people who have bad local reputations that anyone could tell you about, thinking “she won’t turn on me” or even, perhaps, that it might be useful to have all that rule-bending, short-cuts, dishonesty, angry energy, on your own side helping you win. And then they are amazed when it all falls apart, and they are the target of the craziness and the fraud.

It’s the equivalent of the anxious grade six kid who tries to befriend the “mean girl” or the class bully to raise her own status, joins in teasing others, puts up with a lot of insults to herself, and yet is totally surprised and devastated when the mean girl finally turns on her, too. Which they always do.

In this day and age, I don’t have loads of sympathy for someone (other than a complete newbie) who goes to a previously publicly-exposed trainer without doing a basic background check (or does the check and discounts the warning signs), sticks around ignoring bad behavior as long as her own star is on the rise, and then bursts into tears when the trainer turns on her, which will always happen. If they do it to other people, they will do it to you.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8779074]
There’s ample information out there that anyone can google. It apparently doesn’t deter folks from doing business with “notorious” trainers. What makes you think a BBB would be any different?! The average person doesn’t check the BBB before hiring someone anyway. The information is out there. People often can’t be bothered to look. Or don’t care.[/QUOTE]

There may be ample information but is it reliable ?

I have used BBB to check out businesses in advance. I’ve also filed a complaint against one, when they owed me money. BBB contacted the business and got it resolved for me quickly. Businesses (trainers are a business) don’t want a host of verified complaints on their listing.

A USEF system like the BBB would be more reliable than searching the internet for stories, some which cannot be reliably substantiated.

Since we don’t have a professional trainer licensing system, it’s impossible to know who has a good business, and horsemanship, reputation. Word of mouth is good, but sometimes stories get inflated or important details are left out.

A USEF/BBB program would be a valuable and appreciated service. Members say they get nothing from USEF and only join because they have to. Well, here’s a service that USEF can provide that will benefit its members and help the integrity of the equestrian sports.

Yes we have the suspension lists, but since USEF Hearing Committee transcripts are not made public, we often don’t know the whole story behind a suspension, and we’re left with questions.

Remember we found out about the “ninetubapalooza” debacle because the USEF hearing transcripts were made PUBLIC when they were sued and the transcripts became evidence in court. Before then, BNP were untouchable and had received a lot of positive media attention, for years. When the truth was revealed about the repeated drugging of a top show horse, it was a wake-up call. Ask COTH.

If you’re happy using the internet and social media to find out about a trainer’s business reputation, and you believe the information to be reliable, that’s fine.
A USEF/BBB program would be a valuable, accredited resource in addition to that.

Take a look at the BBB website and you’ll see how something similar would work well for USEF.
http://www.bbb.org/

[findeight]

Well, some people are good at conning the gullible and know how to pick them. It’s the way of the world. Remember TB was nice looking clean cut type who never had trouble attracting nice looking women…or CM I suppose.

Conning new horse folk is nothing compared to that and the possibility of success and $$$$ is seductive to some and more important to them then the hard, cold truth.

I actually had a neutral opinion of EM back before it all hit the fan, based on just seeing her around the shows…until we were stalled across from them…yikes.

[Ashley_K]

I will tell you there are more details to my story. I will be posting it when I have the adequate time to sit down and properly formulate a longer post. I saw and experienced more than most of you have heard from before: staff, business dealings, horses, and dogs.

I want everyone to know that this was an extremely difficult time for my horses and myself. I had to endure many months of not knowing what was happening with my horses. During this time I was also barred from getting any information about my new foal and mare at UGA, again thanks to EM’s games.

In case you’re wondering why I’m posting all this, I would like to highlight the fact that I have no interest in gossip. I felt this specific thread would be the best avenue to warn others who may not be aware of EM.

I was not aware of these internet sites and places to find out helpful information. I live in another country and the advertisement and charm given off by EM made her seem that she had a facility as lovely as she portrays.

I know some of you are jaded when it comes to EM. I wanted to share this with all of you and let people know that there is a larger group actively working on shedding light on the true AHF and EM.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8779308]
The USEF would open itself up to all kinds of lawsuits if they started rating trainers and anyone who did so independently would open themselves up to liable .[/QUOTE]

If that were the case then BBB would have gone out of business long ago.
And Zagat, Fodor’s, Michelin Guide, AAA, Trip Advisor, Angie’s List, etc.

The program would be an option for professional trainers who want prospective clients to know that they operate with ethical business standards. A USEF/BBB logo on a trainer’s website says they are affiliated with the program and support good business practices. Although not a guarantee, at least they are registered with the program and people can look them up and get more info (complaints, if they were resolved, etc.) Only those who are concerned about having a bad reputation come to light would be afraid of the program.

To those who say they don’t care about business practices, they just want a blue ribbon… that works for you. But it doesn’t work for everyone.

[findeight]

No, we aren’t really jaded by this or the PV thread if they are brought up for actual awareness and discussion as opposed to ranting, name calling and…embellished…tales. The truth is bad enough.

Its good, it’ll bump it up in a Google search.