FWIW Special Memories now deceased was approved through performance for German Trakehner Verband, AHS (hence Han Verband ) Oldenburg (Germany), and Selle Francais. He also did the NA 100 day test.
I believe in order to be considered āapprovedā a stallion must meet the performance requirements or go through the performance test.
It was mentioned to me that a reason the NA stallion test has so limited entries is b/c we are 4-5 years out from recession and not many people were breeding then so limited number of offspring at the age to be tested.
I can see why taking a young stallion to the 100 day test is not economically attractive at this time as āmakingā a stallion is not economically attractive at this time. The performance route at least gives, for those that afford to show, a show horse (that happens to be a stallion) which really may be the stallions greatest value.
[QUOTE=TrueColours;7679135]
Well - we produced the TCF Titanium TB stallion by Guaranteed Gold that Gwen Gregorio of Gestuet Falkenhorst in Germany purchased in utero. He was presented as a late 2 year old and the inspectors asked that he come back as a 3 year old.
Iāll have Gwen come onto this thread but I believe that has been done, and he has been inspected and approved so he would be a Canadian stallion sent to Germany, standing in Germany, that fits this criteria 
Iāll have Gwen clarify for sure[/QUOTE]
I am a little confused about your comment. I googled TCF Titanium and found a posting from you that he was born in August 2012. 
[QUOTE=omare;7679335]
I can see why taking a young stallion to the 100 day test is not economically attractive at this time as āmakingā a stallion is not economically attractive at this time. The performance route at least gives, for those that afford to show, a show horse (that happens to be a stallion) which really may be the stallions greatest value.[/QUOTE]
Itās not a 100 day test anymore - it is a 70 day test. And, yes, it is quite expensive. But if a stallion achieves passing scores for a registry he is licensed with, he will be considered lifetime approved and will not need to meet any other performance criteria. That can be a safeguard against the horse getting injured and unable to compete.
Stallions going the performance route have a long road ahead of them. In dressage, for many registries, the horse has to show success at PSG. In jumping, success at 1.4, and in eventing, success at Intermediate. A stallion initially licensed as a 3 y/o will lose his license after a few years until he achieves the required performance standard, so the vast majority of them will be unable to sire registered foals for several years while they are working their way up the levels. And again, if they get injured, that could be the end not only of their performance career, but of their stallion career.
I know someone who is doing the performance route with her young stallion. In her case, she didnāt want to take a chance on the horse not getting a top score at the 70DT. Her horse was initially licensed as a 3 y/o, but will lose his license at the end of this year with at least one registry because he hasnāt yet met the performance criteria. He is showing nice success in competition but is not yet ready for PSG, so he still has a ways to go to meet the requirements. He may make it by the end of next year, but they will have to push him pretty hard to get there. But the owner felt that option was less risky for her horseās reputation than turning in a āso-soā performance at the 70DT. Each SO has to weigh the pros and cons of the various paths and determine what is in the best interest of their stallion (and their pocketbook).
Maybe she meant TCF Palladium?
TCF, which of the mainstream registries is he approved with?
Yes, that is correct about Validation. Because he completed the NA Test, which has full reciprocity, and was licensed by registries that also have full reciprocity he did not have to meet any additional performance for his breeding license. He was also presented to the German Westphalian Verband for licensing after being exported to Germany, where he received a license as well. This allows us to concentrate on his performance career, which is the next focus for him. Having the testing and licenses secured allows us to map out his career without additional pressure.
BTW, there is an extremely significant drop in entries this year. This is due to a few reasons I believe.
1.) Not required by all breed registries in the U.S. (It is however accepted by more than the German registries that have reciprocity. It is accepted by the sBs and ISR/OLDNA to name a couple)
2.) We are now 4-5 years out from the recession, as someone already stated, where breeding took a significant drop. Thus, people did not hold onto colts for stallions prospects as well, and many were either sold and/or gelded.
3.) Standing a stallion is financially challenging. Especially in these times.
4.) The impression that it is as easy or more financially feasible to go the performance route. We have seen owners confident that stallions can go the performance route and a couple years down the road they have lost their licenses due to injury, lack of finances, personal circumstances, etc.
5.) The American breeding philosophy that papers/registration are not necessary. (There are many breeders that do not follow this philosophy but this thinking still influences many.)
All in all, we feel like the second and third reasons were the main contributors this year. We have had a lot of great support for the Test, and breeding has taken a serious hit after the recession. There has been a lot of concentration from multiple entities to help bring sport horse breeding in the U.S. forward in recent years. So, we are confident in the future of the Test and feel great about the fact that it has had 5 consecutive successful years running. We look forward to the future of it and American breeding.
German Oldenburg breeder Anita Nardine of Hidden Springs Ranch in CA has done this. Her 2009 North American bred German Oldenburg stallion Sandarach (Sandro Hit x Sp.Pr.St. Floradonna (Florestan I - Donnerhall)) was provisionally licensed by the German Oldenburg Verband in CA and then exported to Germany. He successfully completed a 30 Day stallion test at MĆ¼nster-Handorf in November of 2013.
You can read about him here: http://oldenburghorse.net/oh/news/news/na-bred-german-oldenburg-completes-successful-hlp-at-muenster-handorf.html
German Oldenburg breeder Vicki Bauer of Cedarwoods Equestrian in OR can be added to the list of those to export a North American bred and tested stallion for competition in Germany. Her 2008 North American bred German Oldenburg stallion Sandro Star (Sagnol x Poetic Patter xx (Nostalgiaās Star xx - Envoy xx)) was provisionally licensed by the German Oldenburg Verband in OR then successfully completed his 70 Day test in OK. He was exported to Germany and made history by being the first NA born horse to compete in Eventing at the prestigious Bundeschampionate in Warendorf, placing in the top 20 in the Small Final of the 5-Year-Old Eventing class at the Bundeschampionate with a score of 8.1
You can read about him here: http://oldenburghorse.net/oh/news/news/na-born-german-oldenburg-competes-at-the-bundeschampionate.html
Thanks, Summer. And congrats again on Validationās success!
I agree, there are myriad reasons why the entries for the testing are down this year. And I certainly hope we will see increased interest next year, and that the overall quality of stallions is really good.
Emy - thanks, I had forgotten about Sandarach and Sandro Star! Do you know if Sandarach went on to do a 70DT in Germany, or is he trying to meet the remaining performance criteria via sport?
But it does seem that Lord Luciano is the only one that was not licensed/tested in the U.S. first.
I agree it is ācheaperā to do the 70 day test --my point --which might not really be a good oneāis making a stallion for the sake of making a stallion (getting it licensed etc) is not economcially rewarding right now.
Making up a top show horses (who happens to be a well mannered stallion) can be very lucrative and those are the people and circle that really has the money. Top show horses are worth such huge amounts of money so I just was speculating whether more stallions will come through the performance route-- not because some poor stallion owner scrimped and saved to make their stallion that way but rather because some rich show hoirse person had a top show horse who happens to be a stallion.
I am a little confused about your comment. I googled TCF Titanium and found a posting from you that he was born in August 2012.
Oops! Sorry - Yes it was TCF Palladium and not Titanium ā¦
Gwen also emailed this back to me:
He must do his performance test next year, then he will be presented again
to get approval with several WB Associations and the Anglo-Arabians.
His approval is then valid.
So his approval is still at the āpendingā stage only
I totally agree omare. Too often stallions will come through the Test and rest only on the Test scores for the license and never do anything in sport. There are a lot of interesting stallions at competitions that breeders never know anything about but havenāt completed testing/performance necessary for a breeding license so arenāt eligible for licenses with many registries. But they will forever live in the AO hunters or 1.30m jumpersā¦you get my drift. And of course to take the time out of a competition schedule to be tested at that point seems unappetizing.
Good news is that there are changes in the future for the format of the Stallion Test. We are very excited about it, but of course are not at liberty to discuss. Sorryā¦ But we are flexible and excited about continuing to help sport horse breeding in America evolve.
[QUOTE=SilverCreek;7680549]
Good news is that there are changes in the future for the format of the Stallion Test. We are very excited about it, but of course are not at liberty to discuss. Sorryā¦ But we are flexible and excited about continuing to help sport horse breeding in America evolve. :)[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, we are feeling the impact of the economic crash at the end of 2008. Breeding was down significantly since 2009 and not as many people are raising stallion prospects. Those mares not bred in 2009 would have been having foals in 2010 which should have been 4 years old this year. After speaking with the registries, not as many stallions are being presented thus not as many are being improved. And, most of the older stallions who needed to attend a testing and who were unable to complete sport requirements for one reason or another, have already done so.
As Summer said, there are some changes to the testing format on the horizon and we are hopeful that there will be new avenues for stallions to meet their licensing requirements.
[QUOTE=epowers;7676250]
Because they canāt get enough stallions to fill it and make it worth hiring all the riders/trainers/etc. Which is a shame, because plenty have been licensed that there should be enough at testing to make it happen.[/QUOTE]
Of course you also have the really big show moneyālike Double H Farm which looks like they buy horses as performance horses at the very top level that happen to be stallions and then end up standing them at stud. (Granted they may or may not have been already fully licensed per the testing route :-)).
[QUOTE=omare;7679989]
I agree it is ācheaperā to do the 70 day test --my point --which might not really be a good oneāis making a stallion for the sake of making a stallion (getting it licensed etc) is not economcially rewarding right now.
Making up a top show horses (who happens to be a well mannered stallion) can be very lucrative and those are the people and circle that really has the money. Top show horses are worth such huge amounts of money so I just was speculating whether more stallions will come through the performance route-- not because some poor stallion owner scrimped and saved to make their stallion that way but rather because some rich show hoirse person had a top show horse who happens to be a stallion.[/QUOTE]
Top breeding stallions are worth a ton of money as well, without as much risk. The young stallion Follow Me sold for 400,000E ($550,000) at his licensing, so he hadnāt even gone through the testing yet.
I think itās important to realize that a performance horse who happens to be a stallion and a BREEDING stallion are very often 2 different things. The testing is a baseline evaluation.
Taking a stallion on to be a top performer shows the animal can perform.
But nothing shows a stallionās ability to PRODUCE except siring foals & see how they turn out. Everything else is just an educated guess. And itās far easier get a stallion through the testing then just let him breed without the extra burden of a heavy duty show schedule.
My impression is that many SO over seas keep their stallions in training with perhaps some light showing, but arenāt always campaigned heavily. Once a stallion starts producing quality get, how he shows is irrelevant.
So if I had a stallion who I wanted to promote as a sire, Iād go the ST route; at $10,000 it is FAR cheaper than showing even for 6 months.
The problem is that over in Europe, once your boy is licensed, there are auctions where he can be sold for (very often) good $$. And there are foal auctions where the stallionās get can be sold for (very often) good $$.
Here is the US I get the impression that (for the most part), breeding/making/standing a WB stallion is just all money going out.
I wonder: did the folks who successfully export their boys over to Germany actually SELL their horse? Or are they just paying to have the horse in training over there?
I actually love Tzigane and have spoken to his owner; I get the impression he is on sort of a lease thing.
I guess I was sort of mulling over the idea of an American breeder (or breederS) sending/selling quality colts over to Germany (or Holland or Denmark? Are those registries āsisterā registries to their American counterparts?) to be groomed for licensing/testing/auction.
While I realize we donāt have the numbers in terms of quality that Europe has, I DO believe we have some super horses here.
Lord Luciano is indeed so far the only US-bred and born, not yet US approved yearling who successfully went to through all conventional steps of approval in Germany. He is indeed successful at GP dressage now and is also the sire of several very promising and succecssful younger performance horses, inclusing one approved son already (Zauberlord).
DownYonder: The German Trakehner Verband has the exact same requirements for full approval as all other big warmblood stud books in Germany. The FN standards are the same for all, since horse breeding is still semi-State run, no way around it.
Tzigane was accepted based on his previous ATA approval and his performance record in the US at Level 8 show jumping. He is on permament lease to GestĆ¼t Majenfelderhof and his oldest get in Germany are now 3yr olds. His first daughter was inspected into the German Trakehner Stud Book this spring, and with free jumping now part of mare inspections for the Trakehners, she also managed to take home one of the best scores of the day in free jumping (8.5 for potential).
Now the first stallion to be approved in Germany after an export form the US was actually Amiego in the late 1990s. He was born in Canada, therefore never inspected in Germany, competed for Canada, and after his performance career came to Germany for 1 breeding season to stand at GestĆ¼t Hƶrem (home of Connery and Imperio). He produced around 70 foals from that one season, including multiple S level performance horses in all three disciplines (!) and two approved sons.
Several other US stallions that never set a foot into Germany apart from their performance careers were later approved in Germany based on said careers and have successfully been used (and are being used) via frozen semen - Abdullah, Leonidas, Horalas, Special Memories, DonaufĆ¼rst. Trakehners have always been very open to this sort of āshifting geneticsā - the breed has a closed stud book so often this is the only way to get performance proven bloodlines into the book that are not quite so common.
[QUOTE=Maren;7682749]
DownYonder: The German Trakehner Verband has the exact same requirements for full approval as all other big warmblood stud books in Germany. The FN standards are the same for all, since horse breeding is still semi-State run, no way around it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Maren. I did know that and it would make sense they have to meet the same FN standards. I guess I was thinking of the ATA performance requirements when I made my previous comment (hadnāt had enough coffee!).
ISR-Oldenburg NA breeder Susan Thomas, MN bred the stallion Patriot (born '98) by Pharaoh (also her stallion) out of Safir. He was very successful in Germany in S Dressage with 19 winnings, several 2nd and 3rd places! He was also approved in Germany by the Oldenburg Verband and RPSI.
Another OLD NA bred horse was approved in GB by the Anglo European Studbook and is very successful in sports in Europe, too: Commander bred by Dr.& Mrs. A. Greenwood, NC, sire Contango, dam Fancy Ruler, born 2004. He is a pinto stallion.
Cooldanz, also a pinto, born 2002, bred by Isabela Jedral, MD was also sold to GB and is very successful in sport. Sire: Contucci, dam Dressen Fancy
