So – what is this all about and what is the reason for the club? Somebody on COTH will know.
A way for the puppy millers and back yard breeders to register the mixed breed puppies they produce.
Which, in itself, is the most bizarre statement in the world. Why would anyone want a “registered” mixed breed anyway? Who cares? Unless it’s a club trying to develop a new breed, in which case they would probably keep their own registry until they close the stud book. But other than that…what is the purpose of a registered mixed breed??
I thought hybrid was two different species e.g coyote and domestic dog as opposed to cross-bred e.g. Collie and spaniel, labradoodle et. al.
A cross-bred registery could be sought but not limited to puppy mills.
For some reason this type of breeder likes to use the word “hybrid” and then talk about “hybrid vigor” as if it was between species.
You are correct. It should be the American Cross-Bred Registry…or American Mutt Puppy Mill Registry.
I live at the threshold to hell for puppy mills, and my beloved breed of horse. We have actual billboards against puppy mills posted on the highway, in my area. I help out at a Vet Clinic owned by a friend, and the other day, someone came in with a new puppy from- yes- a puppy mill.
There is a company that does advertising for the Amish, and provides them with brochures for their puppy mill. They have canned language on their site about the “puppies playing with their children, looking for a loving family, and needing adoption”. These puppies are crosses ever everything “poo, chon, bee, and yorkie” that you can imagine. And, of course, they have the requisite issues from the high quality breeding programs that they come from.
I am completely torn about people buying the puppies, because, as we know this helps them stay in business, but those puppies DO need homes. But, ugh- I’ve seen how they are raised, and it makes me ill. Personally, I do not think that PA will ever actually come down hard enough on the Amish for these issues, because they put too much money into the economy because of tourism.
But, the reality is that these aren’t the “Plain” people as we expect to see them. These are people who are slick in business, raise puppies like a crop, and now have cottage businesses that cater to them, helping to make all of this seem “OK”.
Sorry for the hijack…carry on.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8487712]
I am completely torn about people buying the puppies, because, as we know this helps them stay in business, but those puppies DO need homes. But, ugh- I’ve seen how they are raised, and it makes me ill. Personally, I do not think that PA will ever actually come down hard enough on the Amish for these issues, because they put too much money into the economy because of tourism.
.[/QUOTE]
If folks stopped buying them, the “breeders” would stop producing them
[QUOTE=Marshfield;8487717]
If folks stopped buying them, the “breeders” would stop producing them[/QUOTE]
I realize that is the simple answer. Not possible, or practical, but simple.
If you click on the website, there are hundreds of mixes that can be registered - Boxipoos, etc…it is almost funny how serious they are about their ‘breeds’.
But it brings up the question about how legit some breeders are - labradoodles have been around a long time and fetch high prices, and these little dog mixes are as much as a purebred.
And then there is the question of who is a legitimate breeder, who is a back yard breeder (me, and a negative, according to some on COTH), and who is a puppy mill, thinking that not all puppy mills are mass production in abysmal conditions.
And then some sites do not encourage puppymills, so people selling puppies say there is a rehoming fee instead of a price. And pedigrees are very often faked.
Stupid people pay stupid prices for stupid things. Human nature all around - just look at them thousand dollar “mini pigs” that end up in a rescue once it outgrows the promised fifty pound weight.
As to legitimacy, I think it comes down to 2 issues - how the animals you own live, and what kinds of dogs you create. The people whose dogs are living in filthy crates are the same as AKC breeders who perpetuate the physical monstrosity of breeds like the English Bulldog or the mental monstrosity of breeds like the Cane Corso. If you produce a dog that can’t live comfortably in its own skin in a normal home, you’re as damaging and abusive to your animals as someone who has them chained to a tree or crammed into a wire cage.
On those terms, the American Hybrid Society is as legitimate as the AKC.
[QUOTE=vacation1;8488229]
On those terms, the American Hybrid Society is as legitimate as the AKC.[/QUOTE]
Bad breeders are bad breeders, period. I agree.
But the point of a registry is to prove parentage in a breed. There is no point in proving parentage in a mixed breed, at least none that I can even imagine. If you can register mixed breeds…what does that even mean? Registered to prove…what? The ONLY thing a kennel club registry does is prove breeding lines in an established breed. That’s why it’s called a breed registry.
So, there is nothing legitimate about the American Hybrid Kennel Club - unless I’m missing something.
Editing to add: it’s not the job of the AKC to police the breed standards for Bulldogs. The breed standards are developed by breed clubs. The AKC’s job is to keep a record of sires and dams. It’s breed clubs, and breeders that should look out for the breed - the AKC is simply a record-keeping organization.
[QUOTE=S1969;8488236]
Editing to add: it’s not the job of the AKC to police the breed standards for Bulldogs. The breed standards are developed by breed clubs. The AKC’s job is to keep a record of sires and dams. It’s breed clubs, and breeders that should look out for the breed - the AKC is simply a record-keeping organization.[/QUOTE]
Pffft. It that were true, these supposedly all-powerful breed clubs could simply invest in this neat invention called “software” and do away with the AKC.
[QUOTE=vacation1;8488278]
Pffft. It that were true, these supposedly all-powerful breed clubs could simply invest in this neat invention called “software” and do away with the AKC.[/QUOTE]
You obviously don’t know anything about AKC or breed clubs. Most breed clubs don’t have a lot of money, and are just a bunch of volunteer people - not a single paid staff person in most clubs. The AKC, on the other hand, has a staff and two offices - and has a database with decades and decades of certified pedigrees.
Maybe some breed clubs have this same historical data, but I doubt most of them do. It would be absolutely impossible for my national breed club to acquire the pedigree data that AKC holds for us.
The “all-powerful” part of breed clubs is that they write and update the breed standards. It is a big responsibility, but it’s not AKC’s responsibility.
On the subject of breeding more and more extreme mutations, to the extent that litters of Bulldogs, Pugs, etc., cannot breathe without effort and suffer in the heat, there is a procedure that can widen the nasal channels. Friend of mine had it done for her pug in Victoria, and he can breathe without difficulty now.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8487712]
I live at the threshold to hell for puppy mills, and my beloved breed of horse. We have actual billboards against puppy mills posted on the highway, in my area. I help out at a Vet Clinic owned by a friend, and the other day, someone came in with a new puppy from- yes- a puppy mill.
There is a company that does advertising for the Amish, and provides them with brochures for their puppy mill. They have canned language on their site about the “puppies playing with their children, looking for a loving family, and needing adoption”. These puppies are crosses ever everything “poo, chon, bee, and yorkie” that you can imagine. And, of course, they have the requisite issues from the high quality breeding programs that they come from.
I am completely torn about people buying the puppies, because, as we know this helps them stay in business, but those puppies DO need homes. But, ugh- I’ve seen how they are raised, and it makes me ill. Personally, I do not think that PA will ever actually come down hard enough on the Amish for these issues, because they put too much money into the economy because of tourism.
But, the reality is that these aren’t the “Plain” people as we expect to see them. These are people who are slick in business, raise puppies like a crop, and now have cottage businesses that cater to them, helping to make all of this seem “OK”.
Sorry for the hijack…carry on.[/QUOTE]
I am starting to agree with you, ASB Stars. Not about the Amish puppy mills per se, but about the slick business practices. And other things. Just seems the more I learn, the less I understand, about them.
Sorry, no hijack intended.
But rubies, you are correct, as you know you are. 
A mix is not a hybrid. Hybrids cannot reproduce.
Think mules.
Well, some hybrids can reproduce.
A mule (mostly) can’t. But a coy-dog can. And so can Bengal cats. But Ligers (lion x tiger) the males are sterile and the females aren’t, IIRC. I don’t know about Zonkeys…
I definitely agree that many canine breeds are becoming ridiculous caricatures of themselves. For two very stupid reasons: the show ring and consumer/buyer preferences.
Brachiocephalic animals get a LOT more buyer interest and show judge interest the more their faces are pushed in, it’s ridiculous and damaging to the animals. Same with cats and dogs, there are 2 types of Persians: Extreme and Doll Headed. Doll Heads are traditional/normal. Extremes are so shoved in they can’t breathe properly and their eyes run all the time.
With Cane Corsos, they’re not breeding so much for aggression as they’re breeding for massive size. But choosing the largest every time to reproduce is not choosing the personality. Americans in particular always want more: bigger than big, teeny tiny instead of just small, etc.
[QUOTE=MistyBlue;8488728]
I definitely agree that many canine breeds are becoming ridiculous caricatures of themselves. For two very stupid reasons: the show ring and consumer/buyer preferences.
Brachiocephalic animals get a LOT more buyer interest and show judge interest the more their faces are pushed in, it’s ridiculous and damaging to the animals. [/QUOTE]
Not to beat the dead horse about Bulldogs, but do you have any reason to believe that the standards and judges preference has changed for other breeds? Like Pekinese, English Toy Spaniel, Japanese Chin, Boxer, Bullmastiff? I mean, the Pekinese is one of the oldest breeds in the world and it always had a Brachiocephalic head.
I go to dog shows more than most people on this board and I can truly say that I don’t know if Brachiocephalic traits are more pronounced in these breeds than they used to be or if judges reward more for them than “they used to.”
I find it really interesting that so many people know these things, but don’t own the breed(s), judge, or show dogs. I can tell you a lot about my own breed’s standard and judges’ preferences, but I don’t imagine anyone outside my breed (other than judges) would really see much difference in what won 25-30 years ago and what wins now (except grooming trends, which are obvious.)
There is really nothing that has been manipulated as much as dogs from their original form. Breeding to improve traits is one thing, breeding to enhance grotesqueness is another. We breed horses to improve jump, style, movement, mind, etc.
I imagine if we looked at photos of dog shows of yesteryear, there would be a difference, not necessarily an improvement - surely German Shepherds have gone downhill with their weak hind ends.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8489072]
There is really nothing that has been manipulated as much as dogs from their original form. Breeding to improve traits is one thing, breeding to enhance grotesqueness is another. We breed horses to improve jump, style, movement, mind, etc.
I imagine if we looked at photos of dog shows of yesteryear, there would be a difference, not necessarily an improvement - surely German Shepherds have gone downhill with their weak hind ends.[/QUOTE]
I’m not disagreeing that there are some breeds that have changed, and some may have changed a lot. But saying things like “Brachiocephalic animals get a LOT more buyer interest and show judge interest the more their faces are pushed in” sort of begs some backup to support that. I’m not sure it’s true at all. I certainly would never claim that it is true of all brachiocephalic breeds, unless I was an AKC judge, and even then it would be something I’d still expect someone to support in some way.
Everyone always pulls out GSDs and Bulldogs. But there are 184 accepted breeds into the AKC. Some have changed very little since their acceptance.
