Ammy Woes: How to overcome the fear of stopping when training a green horse

[cswoodlandfairy]

Title pretty much explains it. I have a lovely little hunter type 6yo OTTB. His mindset however is not as ammy friendly as I hoped. Hes had some dirty stops on me, both my fault and his. He figures once he stops, he can keep doing it. Hes pulled the trick with my trainer a couple times as well. But I will say he has been getting better. When I add in lines, we’re good to go. But that defeats the point, espeically in the hunters.

As an example, last weekend in my lesson, I have been working on releasing and following my horses rhythm. When I trot into a gymnastics no issues and we get the striding and doing it decently enough. Now this go around we added a one stride to a one stride. X-rail - Oxer- vertical. So the distance to the xrail was a big long and suprised me so I popped him in the mouth and I thought he was going to the oxer but stopped last minute and I ended up his neck. So we go back and I have to ride the dickens out of him to get him through. Oh yes, that would include 2 strides in both 1 stides. I do get him over, but then after that I dont release enough and allow enough, as I am bracing for the stop. I am old, I dont bounce as well, so would rather not fall I have a really big problem of trusting his larger more forward step due to the stops and in turn I have a tighter hold on the reins, grip with legs and toss myself (all counter productive to what I should be doing, problem is its so subconcious I dont even know I do it).

So how, as an ammy, do you address this issue? The easy way is to sell/lease him to someone else. But I have had this issue before and went that route, which obvious has come back to haunt me. So I would really like to try and address this issue. Any thoughts, helpful what ifs etc.

[mika0116]

I am not sure you’re going to love this answer

Full training with your trainer with some assistant / strong junior rides a few times a month

half lease something else to unlearn bad habits and get stronger

continuing as is will lead to a circle of distrust and you’ll end up destroying his confidence and yours

trust me on this

[cswoodlandfairy]

I have two horses, my older one is 10000% ammy friendly and I dont have any of these habits, well not bad, but he also just keeps going. I mean hell humble me as needed but usually knows to ignore me and keeps going. Its very specific to this horse.

[mika0116]

We all ride some horses a little differently, but I am going to guess that you ride your other horse similarly otherwise the muscle memory wouldn’t be there…

My own trainer calls me out on this ALL the time, FYI

Your other horse is likely used to it, your trust each other, and you probably dont do it AS much

Can we see video of you on the other one to compare? Might help me give some suggestions

[CBoylen]

There was no way he was getting out over that oxer especially if that was the first time you jumped into that combination and he was surprised by it. You weren’t straight coming in. It made the distance too long. To expect a horse to chip out of a combination with a ramped oxer like that coming in crooked and weak is just too big an ask.

[dmveventer]

I think you’re being way too hard on yourself! I saw a lot of nice work between the two videos with just one stop after an awkward launch into a short combination that left him to either chip or take a flyer to get out of. I don’t really consider that a dirty stop, jumping out of that takes strength and/or confidence he may not have yet. He didn’t duck out or run off, and he came back around and gave it several more tries even though he was a little unsure of himself. Obviously this is only two snippets in time but I see a lot to like here. He’s only 6, so right now working with the add while you both build confidence is not a terrible thing. You were able to push him to a more forward distance through the longer line in the other video so it’s clearly there, it just needs time to develop. I’d just back off from some of the more technical exercises for a bit and focus on building strength and adjustability in the canter in your flatwork, and trying it out over easier courses that give you and him a little more time to process. One and two strides don’t have much margin for error so you guys may just need time to work up to the bolder ride through.

Will it take longer to develop him yourself vs putting him in pro training? Of course. If you genuinely aren’t enjoying the process there’s no shame in moving him along to someone that will, but I don’t see anything here that suggests this horse is beyond your capabilities if this is something you want to see through.

I also have a green OTTB that stopped a lot when I first got him (worse than yours I bet, just based on these videos). It was never unsafe, just frustrating and definitely had me questioning whether I was a remotely competent rider, but we did work past it. It took longer than I thought but as he built strength and confidence it’s faded and we’re making great progress. I like the process so it’s satisfying to me to see how we’ve come together, even though my competition goals have been pushed back to meet him where he was. There are definitely still days where I doubt everything and feel like a terrible rider that’ll never do him justice, but in the long run those are balanced out by the days where he exceeds expectations and I get to watch him figure things out.

[mika0116]

So you are hard on yourself, but you DO tighten your elbow before most fences besides the blue out of the little combination - the following times through that combo you do it a little less each time and by the end you’re not doing it much at all.

So I suspect that might be it with your 6 year old. You start a little tight and he responds like the green, differently minded horse that he is.

What does your trainer say about your elbow before the fence - you have a nice hand - the elbow is very different

[weixiao]

I rode for a famous Olympian that always jumps with a neck strap. I think it is can be an incredibly useful thing to use, especially when on a young horse, and can make you feel more secure and help avoid an inadvertent catch in the mouth or unbalancing during something unexpected, even if you have multiple gold medals to your name.

Impulsion (not to be confused with speed) is also your friend. This can be difficult on a green horse in a small indoor but it is a great place to practice. More impulsion will make it easier for him to get out of trouble and if he is carrying you with his hind leg better you’ll feel more stable and balanced, in my experience. Don’t let a slow trot be strung out and behind your leg or a quiet canter be flat.

Lovely horse!

[NaturallyHappy]

@cswoodlandfairy

When I add in lines, we’re good to go. But that defeats the point, espeically in the hunters.

He is young and green. You’ve received good advice upthread. I’m guessing you are showing over lower heights. If the lines are not adjusted for height, why not add? I realize that may eliminate your chances for a ribbon, but it is an investment in his future by building confidence.

[endlessclimb]

This answer won’t be popular with everyone, but I’d lunge this horse over fences regularly, no higher than that oxer, so he learns how to get himself out of trouble at horrible distances.

What a good boy for just stopping and waiting for you to get back in the saddle. I think he just needs some practice without you up there on getting in and out of weird distances.

[Against_All_Odds2]

Did you vet him by chance? He looks like he tries really hard! I’d like a peek at front rads.

[cswoodlandfairy]

Haha, another fault of mine… hands and elbows loose and following. I always video so I can see what I am doing, since Im an analytical rider and need to see and feel it to understand and connect dots. But I do lock my elbow when I am nervous. The three things I do unknowingly is hands (following), elbow (following) and I grip with my legs. So Im pushing him into a wall. Ive been trying to be more concious about it and getting better, but that fear of “what if” which I know I should not ride causes me to do these things instead of taking a breath and allowing.

@weixiao : Thank you! Hes a cute little guy. He is related to my older boy which was why I adopted him (he did the RRP 2023). Impulsion for him is very important and in the corners of my ring I do allow both my horses to slow down which of course changes both striding and distance to the fence. So that did NOT help me going to the first jump. We have been working on this with both boys. So hopefully it will just continue to get better. That is why you see ground poles in the first turn. To ensure that I am shaping him and continuing to move forward at his pace.

@NaturallyHappy : Right now we are actually in the jumper ring as that is where his confidence is at. When I do the local shows hwoever, I do add and he does very well when I do. I do plan to keep that up, but while he is small he does have the 12ft stride, and I definitely want to learn to trust it so we can do the rated hunters one day again.

@Against_All_Odds2 : he gets vetted every year in May by a vet in our area. One of the top lameness vets. Last May the only thing that came up was his neck which we injected causing him to shift right, but it has been resolved after the injections and muscle building.

[Ponyplusaninch]

I think the core answer is here is more pro rides. You don’t want this baby picking up on your bad habits and subsequently forming his own.

He’s such a cutie! I think there’s a lot of good happening.

The thing to put in perspective is that your mistakes aren’t grievous, but at your horse’s age? They get magnified. Horses are like teenagers 5-7 and have their own opinions about how they’d like things done. So what was once perceived as an honest mistake back when they were 4 is now a horrible offense in their mind’s eye.

A pro coming into the equation and riding more regularly I think would keep both you and the horse honest about what you need to work on as well as where the line is for the horse to have an opinion. His stop was not as dirty as I expected. It was a fair response he had, and he didn’t try to run out which is super. That said, stopping in combinations is a HARD thing to fix once it’s started; I was always taught if a horse stops in a combination, if it’s low enough you make them jump out at a standstill. They have to jump. And currently your style of riding is counter productive to that. So a pro might be better at helping instill that lesson.

And then whoever suggested a neck strap I think was spot-on. I’ve also just used the martingale, but if I am getting too handsy my instructor just makes me grab the martingale and not move. Horse jumps wherever he’s gonna jump, and I have to learn to keep my hand/arm in one place and not futz.

[Against_All_Odds2]

Then I’d ditch the poles in the corners and go back to basics: Straighten, Rhythm and leg at the base. Those poles are a bit trappy at his stage. He has better rhythm in the 1.18 lesson and you can see it flow a bit better.

I do think he takes off steps in both videos and more of them in the 1.25 video

[mika0116]

I highly recommend this

Double Neck Strap

comes with a running martingale attachment and a bunch of configurations

the raised strap gives a much more balanced approach to grabbing mane/ a traditional old stirrup leather neck strap

it has helped my elbow problem tremendously – I have a demon left elbow that just freezes sometimes especially 3 strides out of a fence.

The tight elbow kills impulsion - ask me how I know LOL

I’d also think your chestnut is more naturally forward (at least in video) so you end up riding the bay a little like you’re expecting to need to woah and then your impulsion dies a bit…

[Ponyplusaninch]

Oh I’m bookmarking this, thanks!!

[Night_Flight]

@weixiao

Impulsion (not to be confused with speed) is also your friend. This can be difficult on a green horse in a small indoor but it is a great place to practice. More impulsion will make it easier for him to get out of trouble and if he is carrying you with his hind leg better you’ll feel more stable and balanced, in my experience. Don’t let a slow trot be strung out and behind your leg or a quiet canter be flat.

This was my thought, too. Both horses seem to lack impulsion (though I didn’t watch every second of each video).

Impulsion gives horses the energy needed to get out of sticky situations and distances. It doesn’t mean going fast, but you need to have at least some energy in the canter, which you do see developing during the video as you relax more.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of transitions on the flat would get both horses more in front of the leg and give you more of a feeling of confidence over fences, since they will react that much more quickly when you need to put your leg on and close a big gap.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Was going to suggest similar… the 1 hand in the mane, one hand as guidance and steering a few trot steps out from the in to the gymnastic helps tremendously, as you’re not using your hands to shorten their step as you manage your balance.

[Chestnut24]

I very much agree with this post.

The horse is very cute and seems quite honest. But do both of you a favor and incorporate some more regular pro or very good junior rides. It is very important to build confidence at the early stages of a horse’s jumping education - and so so hard to fix that later on…!

Also I would take a cue from him with the oxer in the middle and build lines so they are simple and easy (just cross rails) and once he gets through, build them up. Positive reinforcement is key to building confidence (horse and rider).

I would definitely keep riding him - you are doing a good job! But a pro / very good junior just can give your horse a more solid foundation that will pay off as you go on.

[endlessclimb]

This is a good point too - that’s a pretty complex gymnastic for a not-confident green horse. Keep it low until he thinks he’s king of the world, then slowly increase the height.