Ammy Woes: How to overcome the fear of stopping when training a green horse

[IPEsq]

If this is an example of the typical stopping, then I agree with everyone that you need to make the exercises more simple and inviting to this horse. Some horses need all the poles and some mental challenges. Your horse loses confidence and then so do you. He’s not one who can adapt to lack of accuracy super well, which is the only thing sort of less ammy friendly that I’m seeing. He did seem pretty game actually when you went back to the exercise and gave him a confident ride. But you need to set him up better for success from the start.

I’ve seen this a fair amount. For example a friend of mine was teaching her young horse to jump. He was generally pretty brave. But he was either dead quiet or had a ton of anxiety–not a lot in between those extremes. Her trainer was just working on some lines of poles, and he handled it great one direction, but the other direction, the first pole was set awkwardly coming out of the corner, so it was hard to ride the right track to get there comfortably. After a few mistakes, he started losing it. Some days later, rider tried working on the exercise herself and ran into a similar problem. I was there riding my horse at the time and suggested we move the first pole. And then when she did it off that direction, only do the first pole on a circle. Forget the rest of the related distances until he forgot about the previous ride and chilled out.

One might say, the horse needs to figure it out to be an amateur’s horse or a broke horse. Sure. But when they are learning and struggling, why invite a meltdown if it can be avoided just by building an exercise that the horse can be comfortable and confident with until they are used to those basics enough to be able to also think about harder questions? Some young horses do great doing lots of combinations. Would not be my choice for your horse in particular except for trotting in to a very inviting distance.

I had one young horse who in the beginning would over jump land 12 feet into a gymnastic, and so I had to set things long and then bring them in tighter as he figured it out. Other horses may need to start small and then expand out. And then there are some green horses who don’t have either of those issues.

If this kind of thing is happening regularly, you need a trainer who can recognize this and learn how to help your horse gain confidence and then progress as appropriate. If they can’t, then you need a new trainer.

[NaturallyHappy]

@IPEsq, this is also a great post!

[Lost_Shoe]

The horse did not cause the stops; the rider did not cause the stops; the instructor’s gymnastic caused the stops. Any green horse would have potentially stopped at that gymnastic. Not necessarily because of the gymnastic itself, but because the horse was expected to jump the entire thing without first jumping the first element, then adding the second element, then adding the third element. Pro rides are not going to help if the pro just stuffs the horse through the gymnastic without setting it up one element at a time, and adjusting the distance to suit the green horse. No need to take my word for it as to how to properly ride a green horse through a gymnastic. Anne Kursinski in Riding and Jumping Clinic writes: “you’ll start by just trotting the rails on the ground, then add the fences one by one…” Jim Wofford in Modern Gymnastics directs the reader to set up the first element, then when the horse is comfortable, the second, then raise the second, and finally lower the second element when the third element is added, then later raise the second and third. Both Kursinski and Wofford emphasized to adjust the distance to suit the horse.

It is great to do gymnastics but care has to be taken to set the green horse up for success: show him what he can do, not what he can’t do.

[foursocks]

Yes, this! If that was his first time through it should have been one fence. Then when he felt comfortable you add the second, and then the third. Even with my teenaged jumper, who is fairly unflappable, we never just jump into a whole-ass grid! It’s not fair to do to any horse and certainly not a baby. Also, as I think a few others have mentioned, it doesn’t look set correctly.

He’s super-cute and you are a fine rider, OP, but the exercise itself set both of you up for failure.

[CBoylen]

IMG_1735

If it helps you feel better, I’ll share this video of my hunt horse’s first attempt at a bounce (he jumps in the ring about once a year). As you can hear Joe say at the beginning, you “never show a horse what he can’t do”, so we had done the progression from just poles to element A up and then element B went up and he still needed just a minute okay guys but after that he had it and element C went up quite a bit… and then we finished back through just poles on the ground at the end.

[GraceLikeRain]

This feels like a great example of how an exercise can be set up to accommodate confusion and learning without anyone having to get flustered.

[cswoodlandfairy]

@CBoylen: think we need to have him come back for a clinic again!!!

[NaturallyHappy]

This was a real light bulb moment for me when he did this in the clinic I experienced. I wish I could ride w him every day​:heartpulse:.

[skydy]

I love your horse. I bet he’s a great guy.

[CBoylen]

Thanks! He really is just the best.

[Farosh]

In my experience, the best way to get amateurs jumping well on green horses is jumping low, very low, a lot.

Like yes in an ideal world everyone would have a perfect horse that suits their skill level perfectly, but we can’t all do that, and sometimes if you have a tight budget and you want something quality, you have to get something greener than ideal for the rider.

One of my proudest accomplishments recently was with a student on a really really nice horse but when I got him he was terrified of a pole on the ground. Like scary last minute panic stop. I would have her always walk the poles, trot the poles, trot the xrails, trot in canter out, then raise it, little by little 3+ days a week. And if the horse ever had an issue I immediately lowered it. In 3 years since not wanting to step over a pole this horse took a kid (who has become good, but not amazing WOW good) to her first .90m with chips and oopsie moments and is SUPER honest and insanely clean.

Seriously just do things at a height where you can survive a bad moment over and over and over until you and your horse are almost bored.

[Farosh]

Yeah like where he stops at the oxer in the gymnastic, I just don’t think he’s ready to save those kind of mistakes yet I think he’s actually being pretty kind. He would either have to jump it way too big for you in that moment and then have a disaster on the other side or chip in to a jump he’s not ready to save like that yet.
You entered too long and too dead, caused by not steering into the turn properly, which is okay if you’re gonna land and push and make up for it, but you’re either too nervous or don’t have enough feel to do that, so your horse didn’t know what to do and stopped. And the fact that you thought you were good to that shows you aren’t ready for that yet with this green of a horse.

I don’t like canter in combinations/gymnastics generally, there’s too much room for error. You guys are doing your trot ins good, if you want to try to add some height to give you and your horse a little practice it should be a trot in entrance. I really only like canter ins for horses that are really good at sorting themselves out if the rider makes a mistake on the entrance or for riders I am confident will compensate if they mess up the entrance. Everyone not in those categories should stick to trot ins, and even most people on good gymnastics horses should still just stick to trot ins.

Yeah when I watch that video I don’t see a dirty stopper at all, I see a thoughtful, kind, cautious green horse. I think my nice quiet well schooled 1.30 horse would have saved that, and I think you would have fallen off from the over jump she would have given you.

You don’t need to lease your horse out or whatever, you just need to stick to a height where those mistakes don’t make your horse stop until you guys can both improve enough to move up a little.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Just here to say that as the owner of a coming 4 year old who is very green, this thread has been incredibly helpful and beneficial. We are taking things very slowly with him, and are nowhere near doing this kind of work, but I will visit this thread often over the next 6-12 months for sure!

[TwiSedai]

Also wanted to say this is a great thread. I’m starting my guy over very little jumps, mostly just crossrails. Sometimes I feel like we SHOULD be doing “more”, even though I feel in my gut that building his confidence super slowly is the way to go. This is a good reminder to not worry about what anyone else might think and take it as slow (and low) as he needs to feel confident and enjoy it, especially at the level of support I feel like I can give him under saddle at the moment.

[findeight]

If everybody around you is pushing you to go faster and do more and/or you feel pressure to do so to please them?

Just come on over here and we will talk you down off that particular ledge. Not because we are superior or know more. Because most of us have brought ( or tried to bring along) or restart career changers and blew it by too much too soon trying to please somebody else. We knew better, we pushed too hard anyway at the expense of the horse. Don’t do it.

[RAyers]

Peanut home (2017) 3.5 years, never jumped.

Most recent photo (September last year). Don’t EVER let somebody rush you and risk the confidence. My lesson about bringing up young horses: A good horseman/woman seeks to have a partnership and for the horse to see things as fun/play.