[QUOTE=lizathenag;5933836]
yeah, boys should be able to play with dolls and girls should not be required to.
make fun of me. stay in your gender defined boxes.[/QUOTE]
I don’t need to make fun of you. You embarrass yourself quite nicely.
I’d better run out and get me some Y fronts then. For Dogs sake, men and women are DIFFERENT. I’ll pick up a bra for my brother too. While I’m about it, I’ll get a Scots Guards uniform for my friend who is a nurse.
No doubt that it absolutely sucks that your friend’s DH can’t count on the people he’s putting his life on the line for to do the right thing for his family. Nobody here (I hope) would dispute that.
But - whether or not women without colors wear frock coats won’t affect the pig-headed bigotry that caused your friend’s situation. Would that it were that easy to fix, no?
That kind of change comes from the inside of people, not the outside.
I don’t see correct turnout as a hurtful, exclusive tradition.
Here’s an ecclesiastical example (chosen because Lord knows if anyone loves tradition, it’s Episcopalians :rolleyes: 
): in South Carolina, we are about to have a big split with our national church over whether or not to ordain gay clergy. So, a hurtful exclusive tradition is: clergy must be heterosexual. In my own parish, a wonderful gay couple have been prevented from being lay Eucharistic ministers by this kind of nonsense. I think that’s awful, and sends a message to our gay parishioners that they are somehow less than straight people.
But we also have a tradition that women wear red to church on Pentecost Sunday. That, to me, is a comforting tradition. When I go to church and see women wearing red on that day, it reminds me of home and family and gives me a nice warm feeling. I don’t see that tradition in the same light as the other.
Does that make any sense at all?
They are not different in the hunt field.
This serious question has devolved into what I am reminded of during the ERA debates. Equal rights are not about using the same bathroom.
I like some traditions but it is not a stand alone reason to do something whose reason has passed.
Why do these gender clothing rules exist?
The institution of marriage came about (about 4500 years ago) to legitimize heirs and organize lines of succession etc. None of these things apply to gay couples, who would be better served by a different institution more suited to their needs.
[QUOTE=lizathenag;5933963]
Why do these gender clothing rules exist?[/QUOTE]
So you know whether to “ma’am” or “sir” someone on the hunt field?
I’m only being slightly tongue in cheek–once people ‘of a certain age’ are fully kitted out, it can be kinda hard to tell…
[QUOTE=lizathenag;5933963]
Why do these gender clothing rules exist?[/QUOTE]
Because we want them to.
And because it saves confusion. There’s a drinking establishment that’s opened up down at Myrtle Beach called the “Tilted Kilt.” Since traditionally only men wear kilts, and because their advertising is a little risque - I figured it was a gay bar.:lol: I mean, if you think about it . . .
But apparently I was mistaken. :rolleyes:
Kennel fight!
[QUOTE=lizathenag;5933963]
I like some traditions but it is not a stand alone reason to do something whose reason has passed.[/QUOTE]
Well, you’re not the final arbiter of which traditions are worth keeping and which ones need to be trashed.
Go start your own hunt and set whatever rules you want.
Personally I’d love to see more ladies riding sidesaddle.
Except for me. I have enough trouble staying on as it is.
liz,
no kennel fight here…but rather than thinking of it as gender differences, think of it as differences in roles…afterall, female staff members, huntsmen and those mfhs who choose to, they wear “mens” scarlet, white breeches and brown top boots.
I put MENS in quotations since these items of apparel which ARE no longer exclusive to males in the huntfield.
I’m going to ride sidesaddle in a titled kilt, with patent top boots, and my PekeAPoo tucked into my habit. We will chase possums.
buwhahahaha I meant TILTED kilt; however, titled is just fine, too. Freudian slip there, obviously.
[QUOTE=mildot;5933826]
Maybe boys should play with barbies too? :rolleyes:
The genders ARE different. And thank God for that.[/QUOTE]
I certainly appreciate the differences
JSwan, it is easier to stay on aside than astride. Why don’t we meet up some time, and you can give it a whirl on your big guy? 
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Sidesaddle rider,
What conformation type horse/pony does one need to ride sidesaddle? How long a back does a saddle need? Does one post in a sidesaddle? Please tell us more about the requirements to successful riding…
How does one jump? How high can one comfortably jump? I haven’t seen sidesaddle riding at ODH or Rappahannock. Does the terrain need to be more level like Orange Co?
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Traditionally patent tops were detachable (with snaps) so that you could use them at your own hunt (or showing) and take them off at will (or when you were away from him). Have them made detachable… easy peazy. Use the old field boots meanwhile.
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The #1 requirement is a good wither. The length of back required will depend on the rider. A taller rider, or a rider with a longer femur, takes a longer saddle. But you don’t want too long a back, because then it is weak. And you don’t want to ride with a long saddle on a short-backed horse, because then it is putting pressure on the weak loin area. So really, you want good conformation and a decent wither, and a match of rider and horse.
You do not post in a sidesaddle, unless you really want to, but it isn’t easy. You don’t go “up” like astride, you roll forward onto your thigh in the area behind your right knee and just take the weight off your seat bones. The trot is the most uncomfortable gait when riding aside, unless you get really lucky to have an amazing comfortable horse, so one usually tries to canter if at all possible.
The two biggest requirements to riding aside successfully are that 1) the saddle MUST fit the horse – this is critical, and far more important than with an astride saddle, and 2) the saddle must fit the rider, otherwise they will never feel really comfortable. When you are in a saddle that fits both horse and rider perfectly, it is like the Hallelujah chorus, LOL. After that it is just remembering to keep your right toe down and your right shoulder back.
To jump, you just lean forward, think “left shoulder to horse’s right ear” with your upper body (to counterbalance your legs), and do your normal crest or automatic release. It is much, much easier if you have a horse that jumps flat as opposed to a back-cracker. I have 2 in the barn that are stunning hunter movers, but they will NEVER be a ss horse because of their jump. It is great for the rated hunter divisions, but not good at all for ss.
I have jumped up to 4’3" or 4’6" aside, but others have gone much higher. Carolyn Wofford of the UK set an indoor high jump record of 5’7" on her 17.3 hh gelding Solidarity: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11960375@N04/2812614514/ . Esther Stace of Australia has the outdoor high jump record at 6’6": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STACE-Esther_M.jpg.
You can ride aside in any territory (of course, flat galloping areas are just lovely for everyone!), but really hilly, trappy fixtures can be more difficult. Mostly because you can’t really get off your horse’s back going up really steep hills, which isn’t really fair to them. I have hunted aside in the first field with Middleburg, Piedmont, and Farmington (I would have hunted around a lot more, but my wonderful ss hunt horse sold). There are several ladies who hilltop aside in the NoVA area as well, and one lady has started going first field with Fairfax.
perhaps I am super senstivie because my gay male friend whose husband is serving in Iraq won’t be notified if his husband is killed because their marriage is not recognized because marriage is between one man and one woman.
You know, I am extremely pro-gay rights/equality, and I utterly fail to see how one thing has ANYTHING to do with the other.
I really think that seeing the long running traditions of hunt attire as discriminatory, and comparing that to an equal rights struggle, is a bit of a fishing expedition.
FWIW, I think riding is one of the few places that men and women really do get to compete as equals, and where women regularly beat the men on that playing field.
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[quote=SidesaddleRider;5934605]
I have jumped up to 4’3" or 4’6" aside, but others have gone much higher. Carolyn Wofford of the UK set an indoor high jump record of 5’7" on her 17.3 hh gelding Solidarity: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11960375@N04/2812614514/ . Esther Stace of Australia has the outdoor high jump record at 6’6": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STACE-Esther_M.jpg.
/quote]
You know, I’m just not seeing oppressed females in those photos. :lol:Matter of fact - I see two women I’d give my right arm to have a beer with.
And I’d need several before attempting to take those jumps - aside OR astride.
I may take you up on the ss suggestion - it is one of many things I am woefully ignorant on. May have to use the short horse as the big horse decided to come down with a mystery illness/injury yesterday. Too bad as he’s a nice flat jumper and lovely smooth trot.
