This has been an interesting theread swaying from Boot tops to gay mariage to sidesaddle riding.
The reason there were gender based habitry was so the Master of the Hunt could tell who was doing what, and where the women and men were in the Hunt field.
It is based on the need to know who people were in the field.
Most of the “Traditions” were based on needs.
It is best to learn the traditions of the Hunt costume and then buy accordingly.
Formal habits are not worn until after 4:00 PM. But I see at some shows people wearing Formal attire in the morning.
So I guess the “Traditional” customs and rules do not apply any more. Of course my rule book is a vintage copy so probably I am still behind the times.
But it is good to follow the Traditions of what ever genre you are going to work with.
JMHO
sadlmakr
[QUOTE=sadlmakr;5935229]
This has been an interesting theread swaying from Boot tops to gay mariage to sidesaddle riding.
The reason there were gender based habitry was so the Master of the Hunt could tell who was doing what, and where the women and men were in the Hunt field.
It is based on the need to know who people were in the field.
Most of the “Traditions” were based on needs.
It is best to learn the traditions of the Hunt costume and then buy accordingly.
Formal habits are not worn until after 4:00 PM. But I see at some shows people wearing Formal attire in the morning.
So I guess the “Traditional” customs and rules do not apply any more. Of course my rule book is a vintage copy so probably I am still behind the times.
But it is good to follow the Traditions of what ever genre you are going to work with.
JMHO
sadlmakr[/QUOTE]
Does that mean it’s ill advised to where my western showmanship outfit to a dressage show? 
OMG. Am I the only one having a heart attack just by watching these two photos? OK I’m a freaking DQ with a horse who can’t jump a log to save his life but still…wow
[QUOTE=smokygirl;5935237]
Does that mean it’s ill advised to where my western showmanship outfit to a dressage show? :D[/QUOTE]
You will be disqualified, dear, and asked to leave arena before you trot down the center line; unless, of course, you are in Western Dressage, and then all rules are out.:lol:
[QUOTE=Gloria;5935253]
You will be disqualified, dear, and asked to leave arena before you trot down the center line; unless, of course, you are in Western Dressage, and then all rules are out.:lol:[/QUOTE]
Oh I know … but at least the poor horses would see some bling j/k j/k.
Gloria summed it up well. There are no gender based differences in the way members or participants in the hunt are treated. A female MFH is accorded the same respect as a male MFH, and no male rider is expected to pull aside to let a female member take the coop first 
Unlike many other places in the world where gender based “uniforms” engender (sorry, I couldn’t resist using that particular word) different treatment, as I understand things, the only differences in the hunt field are based upon your colors, your contributions to the hunt, and perhaps your skills…never your gender.
A question was raised about wearing patent leather tops before one had her colors. A discussion ensued about appropriate hunting attire for women and men. I asked the reason for gender based clothing rules. I was told I was embarrasing myself and asked if someone should buy a bra for her brother (the answer by the way is yes if he needs one and asked you to).
I was given a few reasonable answers (so you know to say Sir or Ma’am). I was also told it was not gender based but role based which I totally get but not what I had read earlier.
I have hunted since the early 60s on both coasts (sadly never in the middle). I am not a troll. I work with foster children some of whom are gender variant and some of them commit suicide because they are placed in homes that will not use their pronoun of choice and require them to dress a certain way. This is a big problem but maybe not where you live. So please open your minds a bit about why things are done the way they are.
I don’t want to be treated the same as a guy. I’ve thought about this for a bit. When out driving with guys, if a guy has to pee, they pull over, pee, shake it, and climb back in the van. But as a girl, it means I get to stop at a place with you know, a toilet, sink, toilet paper, etc. It’s very nice.
this is not about being treated like a guy when you need to pee. that trivalizes a serious question.
but I give up.
I think the issue that people were taking is more that you kept calling these traditions - simple attire traditions - wrong.
I work with foster children some of whom are gender variant and some of them commit suicide because they are placed in homes that will not use their pronoun of choice and require them to dress a certain way. This is a big problem but maybe not where you live. So please open your minds a bit about why things are done the way they are.
Am I incorrect to venture that many foxhunters would allow a gender-variant person to dress according to the gender they chose to identify with?
[QUOTE=Trixie;5935475]
I think the issue that people were taking is more that you kept calling these traditions - simple attire traditions - wrong.
Am I incorrect to venture that many foxhunters would allow a gender-variant person to dress according to the gender they chose to identify with?[/QUOTE]
Ofcourse. If you are female (or identify with being female) wear what the females wear. If you are male (or identify with being male), wear what the males wear.
Exactly!
Heck, I have a gay male foxhunter friend who rides sidesaddle exceptionally well and looks better wearing a dress than most women do. We all just sigh deeply and feel envious when we see him – and he knows it too, darn him!
[QUOTE=SidesaddleRider;5930001]
Actually, no. “Correct” or “proper” attire in the USA is that a member that has not been awarded colors or buttons does NOT wear a frock coat – nor do they wear a shadbelly. Most people are clueless regarding correct hunt attire, however, so it becomes acceptable at some hunts. But acceptable does not equal being correct. So the M’burg tack store that the OP was at was correct in stating that she should not being wearing a frock coat if she does not have her colors, acceptable within the hunt or not.[/QUOTE]
Actually, back in the day, “horses of color” (like the lovely black and white pinto that you’ve hunted–Calliope?) were not “correct” or “proper” in the hunt field, either.
This matrix was put together by a person for whom I have the utmost respect regarding hunting. I won’t cite their credentials because it would take too long, but they know their stuff:
http://www.foxhunting.freeservers.com/PgsMain/attire.html#matrix
Jennifer, Oh, trust me I know it VERY well! Kali has, in fact, been called “vulgar” by several older members of local hunts due to her color. She became more acceptable after they saw her jump, LOL, but no, she is not traditional by any means. I even waffled quite a bit when I bought her, since I am really a plain bay type of gal, but I bought her as a show prospect, not a hunt horse. She got thrown into the hunt string after I had to retire a horse and needed another. But – would I EVER use her as an example of what a traditional hunt horse should look like? Heck no! That would be a bay, black, or gray TB (or TB-looking) with lovely lines, a sloping shoulder, daisy cutter movement, and a great jump. Remember, even chestnuts were frowned upon in the hunt field, as they were considered to be driving horses for the forward Corinthian set due to their flashy and “hot” nature. I am well aware that besides the hunt field, there are judges in the show ring that do not find pintos acceptable, and we have not been placed as a result (such as this past Warrenton Hunt Night, for example). It is what it is, and something I knew could happen. The types of horses used for hunting now has indeed been widely broadened, as territories have changed (less open land), people who hunt are usually working amateurs who ride less, etc. Draft-crosses have become quite common, for example. But even as many of them as there are, they do not fit the “traditional hunter” model of American hunt horses. The UK always had a bit more of a mix (LW, MW, and HW hunters), but in the USA, it was the TB that was king.
That is a good matrix, and the person who wrote it does have a very good grasp of attire; but again, you will notice that they do clarify that it is only what is proper for Bull Run (their targeted audience), as 98% of it corresponds to correct attire - but that 2% (including that ladys w/o colors can wear frocks) is not “correct.”
Snobbington Hunt chimes in here!
Well we here in the SH are ALWAYS correct! :winkgrin:
It’s traditional for ALL the female members to wear frocks to cover our fat asses & thighs! It’s a necessary thing…trust me!! The longer the bettah! And yes we wear our frocks in colors! Earth tones/navy blue/burgundy/dark green are preferred. Only male members are allowed to wear regular black meltons. Men should always wear plain black so we can find them to hold our horses for us. And nobody over 21 yrs of age is allowed to wear shadbellies because NOBODY over 21 has a good enough figure to rock that look! Yup! So our “permissibles” are based on need! Need to find, need to not see, need to cover, etc. Frocks hold more flasks of course and that’s needed to…just sayin!!!
Oh…no body wears boot tops. How can you buy used boots that have the wrong kind anyway?! Ever try a used pair on and lamented the boots were of the wrong sex?!! :eek: :rolleyes::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:
Patent leather is so…50’s!!!
Ride on ladies & gents!
Now where’s my miniature dinosoar?!!
My tiara? My pink sparkley flask?
My flame emblomed saddle pad??
[QUOTE=wateryglen;5937030]
Well we here in the SH are ALWAYS correct! :winkgrin:
It’s traditional for ALL the female members to wear frocks to cover our fat asses & thighs! It’s a necessary thing…trust me!! The longer the bettah! And yes we wear our frocks in colors! Earth tones/navy blue/burgundy/dark green are preferred. Only male members are allowed to wear regular black meltons. Men should always wear plain black so we can find them to hold our horses for us. And nobody over 21 yrs of age is allowed to wear shadbellies because NOBODY over 21 has a good enough figure to rock that look! Yup! So our “permissibles” are based on need! Need to find, need to not see, need to cover, etc. Frocks hold more flasks of course and that’s needed to…just sayin!!!
Oh…no body wears boot tops. How can you buy used boots that have the wrong kind anyway?! Ever try a used pair on and lamented the boots were of the wrong sex?!! :eek: :rolleyes::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:
Patent leather is so…50’s!!!
Ride on ladies & gents!
Now where’s my miniature dinosoar?!!
My tiara? My pink sparkley flask?
My flame emblomed saddle pad??
:D[/QUOTE]
LOL!!!
[QUOTE=SidesaddleRider;5936584]
Kali has, in fact, been called “vulgar” by several older members of local hunts due to her color. [/QUOTE]
Thank God for the laid back hunt I belong to.
I’m not sure how I would react to someone calling my horse vulgar, but it probably would not be a good reaction.
[QUOTE=mildot;5937089]
Thank God for the laid back hunt I belong to.
I’m not sure how I would react to someone calling my horse vulgar, but it probably would not be a good reaction.[/QUOTE]
The MFH of my local hunt rides a loud blanket appaloosa.
Save me a spot at the bar!
I’ve hunted with the beagles sidesaddle, but didn’t have to jump anything.
I don’t have the right horse for it (way too round of a jumper), but would like to jump aside sometime.
I’m ALL about the turnout. I feel that proper turnout is a sign of respect: for the sport, for one’s horse and self, and for the landowners. I think it is important to know correct turnout and to then understand how your local conventions are different.
SidesaddleRider, if you need a set of eyes to proof your book, let me know!
“I’m ALL about the turnout. I feel that proper turnout is a sign of respect: for the sport, for one’s horse and self, and for the landowners. I think it is important to know correct turnout and to then understand how your local conventions are different.”
I agree 100% with this statement, Rivenoak.
I say who ever sold the lady the patent boot tops on her boots should have said something about it. Most boots are made with removable tops. That would have been far better for her.
But since it is a past instance, wear what you have in place of them and research so you do not make such a Faux Pas again.
Learning the rules and customs of Fox Hunting can take time but it is well that you do take the time so you don’t repeat the mistake.
Have fun and enjoy the wonderful outings with the group.
I have many “fox paws” under my belt too. With over 50 years associating with horses it is bound to happen.
Hang in there.
sadlmakr
