Was anyone else surprized to hear BB didn’t receive his anabolic steroid injection in May? I’ve seen many many ottbs crash after stopping them. It usually takes months for them to recover from this. I thought this was common knowledge, but maybe not 
Could you please explain what you see when you say a horse crashes?
Also, what steroids were they on…no guessing, just facts…
What type of turnout, feed and care they were getting when they crashed would be appreciated.
I have seen this cited on many boards and I am not buying it for a second. You would have to be a flipping idiot to change your underwear, let alone change the way you have been medicating an unbeaten horse before the biggest race of his career. I think he just said that to shut the PETA types up.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;3274525]
I have seen this cited on many boards and I am not buying it for a second. You would have to be a flipping idiot to change your underwear, let along change the way you have been medicating an unbeaten horse. I think he just said that to shut the PETA types up.[/QUOTE]
I agree Laurie… not that trainer, not in this lifetime! 
[QUOTE=Laurierace;3274525]
I have seen this cited on many boards and I am not buying it for a second. You would have to be a flipping idiot to change your underwear, let alone change the way you have been medicating an unbeaten horse before the biggest race of his career. I think he just said that to shut the PETA types up.[/QUOTE]
What if it was part of the stallion deal w/ Three Chimneys? Stud farms know the results of a stallion with extended anabolic steroid use. Certainly they don’t want a stallion with peanuts for testicles…
I’m sure you all know by now that it was documented his last injection was 15Apr. I commented to friends, while watching the prerace coverage, that I thought his coat looked duller and he’d lost weight. Of course since I’m a big mouth Dutrow fan, NOT, they all said I was imagining things :no:
[QUOTE=tmo0hul;3274577]
What if it was part of the stallion deal w/ Three Chimneys? Stud farms know the results of a stallion with extended anabolic steroid use. Certainly they don’t want a stallion with peanuts for testicles…[/QUOTE]
No, buy they sure would have wanted to stand a Triple Crown winner… another theory that doesnt hold water.
According to the newspaper’s BB was on the anabolic steroid Winsrol. Also, (again my only facts are news agencies, not sure how reliable) the steroids are only supposed to affect weight gain and appetite during training and not race performance, Although it makes sense that it would in some way affect the performance.
IMHO what really got BB was possibly his several days off of training because of his quarter crack. Surely when you alter his routine like that, he’ll be off at least somewhat
He also had a couple of days off after the Derby because of the muddy track.
I think there was alot of factors that went into his defeat…
*Time off and light training
*Stopping the steroids
*The heat and he was allegedly NOT given a prerace jug of vitamins and electrolytes, or was given a smaller dose
*A deep dry track that certainly did not help his rundown problem
*getting dirt in his face for the first time
*I think Kent panicked when he realized he was boxed in and rushed him to the outside.
*He was sore and tired, he looked awfully stiff walking to the paddock and by the way he ran, he wanted nothing to do with running that race. He was too quiet in the post parade, didn’t want to go in the gate, and bolted to the right at the break. Running rank early and showing absolutely no response when asked after moderate fractions and only 7 furlongs, then pulling up easily. He did NOT want to run.
[QUOTE=tmo0hul;3274577]
What if it was part of the stallion deal w/ Three Chimneys? Stud farms know the results of a stallion with extended anabolic steroid use. Certainly they don’t want a stallion with peanuts for testicles…[/QUOTE]
We do NOT race horses. We have a layup farm. However, we have several recently raced colts/stallions here and, if extended anabolic steroid use causes “peanuts for testicles” … well, you could have fooled me! Come carry out an inspection & decide for yourself.
Also, Dutrow said in one interview that BB had Winstrol on May 15 & then recanted & backed up to the last shot being April 15. I believe he first told the truth (May 15) & then changed his tune because of the uproar. They get one shot a month so May 15 would mean that BB missed NO doses of Winstrol.
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;3274519]
Could you please explain what you see when you say a horse crashes?
Also, what steroids were they on…no guessing, just facts…
What type of turnout, feed and care they were getting when they crashed would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]
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Apparent depression, loss of weight, lethargy, dull coat
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Anabolic steroids
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14% protein, run-in shed, full turnout w/company, all the good hay they want.
[QUOTE=SEPowell;3274810]
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Apparent depression, loss of weight, lethargy, dull coat
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Anabolic steroids
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14% protein, run-in shed, full turnout w/company, all the good hay they want.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much exactly what happened to one of our OTTB’s. When he started tying up at the WALK, we called the vet (obviously) and had everything checked. All levels were normal, teeth good, no nothing (though we did not do a muscle biopsy)… We were told this horse had NOT been given any steriods, but he had classic withdrawal symptoms. 250 pounds thinner, he was a rack of bones and finally started to come out of it. He is now (2 years later) fat and slick and happy.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;3274525]
I have seen this cited on many boards and I am not buying it for a second. You would have to be a flipping idiot to change your underwear, let alone change the way you have been medicating an unbeaten horse before the biggest race of his career. I think he just said that to shut the PETA types up.[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree.
I think that for a horse who was used to running every three months or so, and whose work schedule was disrupted between the Preakness and the Belmont due to foot issues, that big deep track at Belmont was more than he could handle. He just wasn’t fit enough to get the job done.
The thing is (and I’ve dealt with many OTTB’s) is that when you drastically change their routine they can get depressed. Horses are creatures of habit…when you take away their daily training, and the human attention they get at a racetrack, along with changing their diet, loss of muscle from being stopped, you are bound to see a sometimes negative change in their physical appearance for awhile.
Now, I may get flamed for this, but oh well… I currently have a horse that was given steroids (by us) at the track… instead of one shot a month, we broke it up to weekly “bumps”…a cocktail of a few differrent things to keep his attitude sharp, and his appetite good while he was competing.
When we retired him 2 yrs ago, we brought him home, but kept up a similar routine at the farm. He was stalled most of the day, turned out for an hour or two, bathed, hand grazed. He was still given his three meals a day(cut back of course) untilll he adjusted.
He did lose a little weight, but mostly due to losing fitness. And he was out of sorts for awhile, I dont blame it on crashing from steroids though…just on a huge change. There are some pics of him in my profile, he is the bay horse.
I’ve had quite a few others that were the same case… they all faired well after they were brought home and were managed the same way.
[QUOTE=SEPowell;3274459]
Was anyone else surprized to hear BB didn’t receive his anabolic steroid injection in May? I’ve seen many many ottbs crash after stopping them. It usually takes months for them to recover from this. I thought this was common knowledge, but maybe not 
[/QUOTE] As they’re banned substances for race horses then I’d only be surprised if I heard a horse was competing whilst being treated with them.
I’d also be pleased that the cheat got caught out if that were the case.
Not in the US… Winstrol is legal in most places in the US, including Kentucky, Maryland, and New York.
Changes in OTTB’s
I agree with SEPowell—
I have seen several GELDINGS (I can think of 6 without effort) come off the
track, having been runners, that are full of life, have shiny, short coats, with
good muscling, that deteriorate in condition, calm down, & don’t grow a winter
coat for the first year. After a year, (sometimes longer) they improve, start putting
on weight & grow a winter coat. I’ve heard that the horse’s own system will start
to produce their own hormones over time & that the steroids take about 6 months
to leave the system.
This is anecdotal, but experience is still a valuable tool!
I can say with the authority of dozens and dozens of OTTB’s having passed through my hands, that cold-turkey withdrawal from steroids can cause a BAD crash in thoroughbreds.
About three months after they’ve been taken off you find depressed appetites, poor coat condition (skin funk unlike any i’ve ever seen), mass muscle wastage, wont lose their coat/grow a coat. I could go on and on. Withdrawal is real, and it is not fun.
[QUOTE=awm;3275148]
I agree with SEPowell—
I have seen several GELDINGS (I can think of 6 without effort) come off the
track, having been runners, that are full of life, have shiny, short coats, with
good muscling, that deteriorate in condition, calm down, & don’t grow a winter
coat for the first year. After a year, (sometimes longer) they improve, start putting
on weight & grow a winter coat. I’ve heard that the horse’s own system will start
to produce their own hormones over time & that the steroids take about 6 months
to leave the system.
This is anecdotal, but experience is still a valuable tool![/QUOTE]
Jeez…let me comment on your points…
shiny coats… these horses are groomed and bathed every day… are they getting that care at the farm? Probably not.
calming down… hours of turnout will do that to a horse!
Not growing winter coats… many TB’s will not grow fuzzy winter coats… they have never had to. Usually it takes a winter or two, if they do.
Putting on weight… what you see with a “thin” TB that has been racing is conditioning… they are athletes, so yes, usually it takes time and feed for them to put on weight.
To blame it all on steroids is ridiculous.
Acertainsmile, I’m curious to know if you know the mechanics of Anabolic Steroids?
How can they not have an effect?
I’m sorry, a horses coat does not fall out because it goes outside during the day.
