And this is why getting a dog from a breeder...

[threedogpack]

is sometimes a really good idea.

I had a new client this morning who adopted an Australian Shepherd X as a puppy about 12 months ago, as a weaned puppy.

She’s a very fearful dog, and has developed some unsavory behavior(s).

The fear isn’t learned behavior, it comes too quick and is too natural for her. I’m certain she’s genetically fearful so there is going to be a top limit to what she can learn and how well she will do over time.

Lucky for her, she has an owner who is quick to catch on, and she lives with at least one child (teen) who loves her enough and is smart enough to train through and around some of the behaviors.

Also lucky for her, she’s a smart dog and can (when not scared out of her gourd) think through issues.

All of this to say, she’s a prime example of why a purpose bred dog, bred for a strong, steady temperament is what I go for instead of a randomly bred dog. I’m glad there are people who want to adopt rescues…but for me, I want a purpose bred dog.

This one is lucky, she’s got owners who love her enough to work with her.

[bits619]

It’s another reason why, in the rescue realm, rescue volunteers should ideally want to screen their adopters and be realistic about each dog’s nature and the potential adopter’s expectations, experience, and willingness to work through potential issues. the same goes for breeders when evaluating buyers.

However, many people would also probably be surprised to learn how many of our foster dogs are just normal, adaptive, resilient pets who have been forgotten, dumped, or just unlucky.

Also, the key part you also left out, probably assuming everyone knows this, is to get a dog from a reputable breeder with a proven history and a goal for bettering the breed. Unfortunately, the difference between a reputable breeder and a crap breeder isn’t in the minds of many people who just want a purebred.

[LauraKY]

Seriously? Based on one example? I hope you neuter/spay whatever you get. The rest of us will continue to support rescues. I will never buy another dog. Love my three rescues! Do they have personality quirks? Sure they do. But, I love them all the same. So did my two purpose bred dogs. So what?

And exactly what was the point of your post? To discourage others from adopting pets?

[stryder]

I tend to agree, although in my past I’ve gotten dogs from the pound, both adults and puppies.

My DH bought an 8-week old Welsh Terrier from a long-time breeder who also shows and judges. She is a wonderful young dog and even though she’s still younger than 4 months, she is going to be a very good dog. She’s brave, fairly quiet :lol: and has a good temperament.

This particular breeder is known for breeding very nice dogs. I thought it referred to conformation. I’ve really learned something.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6162596]
Seriously? Based on one example? I hope you neuter/spay whatever you get. The rest of us will continue to support rescues. I will never buy another dog. Love my three rescues! Do they have personality quirks? Sure they do. But, I love them all the same. So did my two purpose bred dogs. So what?

And exactly what was the point of your post? To discourage others from adopting pets?[/QUOTE]

This was not based on one example. This is based on 13 years of training other people to train their dogs. Today was a study in why I will buy a purpose bred dog.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=stryder;6162597]
I tend to agree, although in my past I’ve gotten dogs from the pound, both adults and puppies.

My DH bought an 8-week old Welsh Terrier from a long-time breeder who also shows and judges. She is a wonderful young dog and even though she’s still younger than 4 months, she is going to be a very good dog. She’s brave, fairly quiet :lol: and has a good temperament.

This particular breeder is known for breeding very nice dogs. I thought it referred to conformation. I’ve really learned something.[/QUOTE]

I have had randomly bred dogs that were good dogs. I’ve had clients with curiously bred dogs that were nice dogs. But I’ve had far, far more clients with fearful, fearful/aggressive or dogs that were .really. hard to live with for some reason(s) than the good ones.

[My2cents]

All three of my dogs have been mixed breed rescues. Every one of them have been awesome dogs. Even my neighbor boasts to other neighbors that all of my dogs are wonderful. My other neighbor researched and researched and bought a $2000 (yes, you read that correctly) miniature dachshund pup, and planned to breed her. She is the most fear aggressive dog I’ve ever met. When the neighbor first got her, she carried her over to let me meet her. I did the direct look into her eyes test and not only did she not look away, she was growling and teeth baring AT 8 WEEKS OLD. When I asked the neighbor why they picked this pup over all the other ones, they said it was because she was 'soo feisty and “interactive” '. Sure enough fast forward a year and the groomer and vet told the owner that she would NOT make a good breeding candidate and so she was spayed. She’s still a witch to this day. I blame the breeder for letting inexperienced people buy such a dog. But at least they didn’t let her make any more devil spawn like the mother.

[S1969]

Getting a dog with the temperament you expect for its breed is certainly one good reason to buy a puppy from a reputable breeder. And of course that means a breeder that breeds for the same “job” you want in your own puppy.

That said, it is interesting that even puppies from the same litter can have significantly different temperaments - my dog and one of his littermates are very different. My dog is an overly exuberant, somewhat difficult (hard-headed and obstinate) dog, while his brother is a much less exuberant, and quite sensitive dog. Both are super friendly and good examples of the correct temperament but they are quite different.

In our case, my dog is really easy to show in conformation…if you have food he’s there with bells on, and trots around like a prince…doesn’t matter if you have cat food or filet mignon. His brother is the opposite…won’t bait, won’t even eat his dinner on the road, mopes around the ring with his tail down, and has been very difficult for his novice owner to show successfully. She is going to let our breeder handle him for a while, because she’s shown for 30+ years and will be able to get him out of his shell. It’s a very interesting contrast - in fact, there were two like my dog and two like his brother that are all showing - so the differences are really obvious.

My dog’s littermate does agility and his owner said it has been so easy to train him…I’m somewhat skeptical that my dog will actually stay within the fenced area!

I think in the field they would be pretty equal, but we haven’t hunted them together so it’s hard to know.

[deltawave]

Kind of depends on what “purpose” the dog will have. We used to breed Siberians. These were sled dogs, not show dogs, and “purpose bred” for recreational mushing. They were also purebred, AKC registered and papered. But they little resembled the similarly-papered Siberians who went to dog shows. Those prettier, more refined, smaller dogs were “purpose bred” as well. Same BREED. Different TYPE. Horrors from purists on either side, I assure you. :lol:

(this was a long, long time ago and I am not current in the Siberian world, just offering an example)

If the “purpose” of a dog is to be a house pet, I’m not certain that any one breed has the corner on that market. There is something to be said for hybrid vigor, as well as something to be said for consistent bloodlines and known entities when it comes to temperament.

I am not anti-breeder, having been in a family of breeders. I am anti-frivoulous-breeder and anti-irresponsible-breeder.

If I want a pet to hang out with me and just be a good buddy, I am going to pick one using other criteria than if I want a dog to herd sheep, fish ducks out of a pond, or haul me around on a sled. Give me a purebred for a purpose-bred dog, for sure. Same as if I were looking for someone to wallpaper my bedroom–I would probably not hire a neurosurgeon or a kindergartener. But that doesn’t make the doctor or the kid bad people. If I want someone to have lunch with or share a good joke, I would take the company of any one of the bunch.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=My2cents;6162635]
bought a $2000 (yes, you read that correctly) [/QUOTE]

What is your point here? That it’s unheard of to pay $2000 for a dog?

[Pcostx]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6162596]
Seriously? Based on one example? I hope you neuter/spay whatever you get. The rest of us will continue to support rescues. I will never buy another dog. Love my three rescues! Do they have personality quirks? Sure they do. But, I love them all the same. So did my two purpose bred dogs. So what?

And exactly what was the point of your post? To discourage others from adopting pets?[/QUOTE]

AMEN!!:yes:

[kookicat]

My problem dog is the one with the KC reg, champion parents and a pedigree longer than mine. He was supposed to be my show dog. Instead, he’s the one I have to keep throwing money at to fix. He’s extremely greedy and lazy. I love him and he has a home for life, but he’s not the dog his breeder and I were expecting him to be based on what he was like as a puppy.

[kcgold]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6162562]
is sometimes a really good idea.

I had a new client this morning who adopted an Australian Shepherd X as a puppy about 12 months ago, as a weaned puppy.

She’s a very fearful dog, and has developed some unsavory behavior(s). [/QUOTE]

out of curiosity, how old was the puppy when this person got it?

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6162727]

If the “purpose” of a dog is to be a house pet, I’m not certain that any one breed has the corner on that market. There is something to be said for hybrid vigor, as well as something to be said for consistent bloodlines and known entities when it comes to temperament.[/QUOTE]

A breed would not have a corner on the market. But I think if both parents both have outgoing, steady friendly temperaments you are far less likely to get a spooky, fearful dog.

Spooky fearful dogs have a much harder time in general society. A fearful dog is more likely to bite and a fearful / sharp temperament is what nature would choose. A fearful dog would stay away from many stims and if cornered they are quicker to fight…both of which would increase their chances of survival if feral or wild. Therefore a breeder who breeds against that would be more likely to have a dog that is not what I dealt with today. Randomly bred dogs may or may not have this advantage. Which does not mean it doesn’t happen, it just less likely.

This is not an absolute, or black and white situation of course. In any litter you are going to have variables.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=kcgold;6162846]
out of curiosity, how old was the puppy when this person got it?[/QUOTE]

8 weeks.

[deltawave]

In any litter you are going to have variables.

One of the funnest parts of raising a litter was seeing the hugely different temperaments develop and become obvious from the moment the squealy little things could interact with the world. :lol:

I raised 3 litters of yellow labs for Leader Dogs and it was always so cool to never be able to tell one yellow puppy from another other than how they acted. I am a firm believer that temperaments are installed before birth.

[GraceLikeRain]

I adore my two dogs that have come from very reputable breeders. I’ve also met countless dogs who came from rescues that I would have taken into my home in a heart beat. I think plenty of rescued dogs make PHENOMENAL pets, companions, and athletes.

At this point in my life I only have the time and finances for one dog. Buying from a quality breeder gave me the assurance that my dog had a much smaller chance of inheriting hip, eye, or kidney problems that are prevalent in the breed. I also love knowing that I have a good breeder behind me who is always willing to give advice and help me out with any unexpected problems.

I don’t think that there is a better or worse but I personally enjoy the added security of working with a quality breeder. It is also nice that I know that my puppy was raised, and socialized in a manner that aligns with my personal training philosophy.

That being said, my next dog will be an adopted 1-2 year old aussie dud (i.e. one without a large drive) that wants to be a beautiful, sweet, couch potato.

[Foxtrot_s]

…never one to miss an opportunity ! – Greyhounds make wonderful pets and there are lots of them that need loving homes, be they urban or country.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;6162886]
…never one to miss an opportunity ! – Greyhounds make wonderful pets and there are lots of them that need loving homes, be they urban or country.[/QUOTE]

for whatever reason, Greys also seem to often have a very stable temperament. They may variables as to prey drive, but I’ve really met few that are nasty or tremendously fearful.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6162869]
I am a firm believer that temperaments are installed before birth. :)[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think temperament is installed before as well.