Andrew McConnon horse abuse

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@JER

I don’t care if Andrew McConnon makes a public statement or not. Quite frankly, I never want to hear from him again. He doesn’t deserve a voice.

I just care that he’s banned from the sport. So now it’s on the sport orgs to actually live their mission statements.

I’m pretty much with you on part one. I will add that I think most lawyers would advise him to be very very quiet and not make any statements right now, given the situation. So I am not particularly concerned that he is staying silent right now. It is what it is.

But about the sport orgs. I would like to see more from them than just an opaque investigation by the FEI, and a suspension or ban several months from now.

I’d like to see people who are currently serving in certain key leadership roles actually make individual public statements about their roles and perspectives on this case. You know, separate from the organizational statement that USA Eventing (USEF) put forth.

In short… leaders should lead.

I will give Rob Burke with USEA some credit. He actually gave comments to Eventing Nation and spoke about steps USEA will take to address this situation. And… I think that’s appropriate and professional and exactly what someone in his role should do when a situation like this comes to light. Here is a quote of the relevant portion of the EN article:

In terms of the USEA, CEO Rob Burk confirmed that his staff had no prior knowledge of the allegations and investigation against Andrew prior to September 7 and therefore could not have suspended Andrew on these grounds prior to obtaining this information.

“As stated in the statement we put out, the first time that, to my knowledge, this information was brought to our attention about the videos of abuse was Saturday evening,” Rob told EN. “Saturday evening, as we say in our release, it was literally about one hour and 15 minutes later that we had notified the Federation about the information we received. I have checked with our staff, requested info from our Board of Governors, and as of right now I have no information showing that we received these videos earlier than Saturday.”

Rob stated that a request will be brought forward to the USEA Board of Governors this week to hold a hearing on this matter.

Had the USEA and USEA Foundation been made aware of the investigation sooner, Rob says, there could have been more action taken. However, he admits this is rather unprecedented territory, given that the Association has not historically had to deal with a case like this involving a grant recipient.

I couldn’t help but notice that unlike USEA and Rob Burke, no one at USEF put their name on the comments they gave to EN. It’s unclear WHO at USEF determined they couldn’t act on the report and had to just punt it to the FEI. It’s unclear WHO at USEF was even aware of the report. Given the allegations that the reporting witness was met with ambivalence about the abuse “when approaching other individuals who hold places of authority in the sport” during weeks prior to making an official report to USEF…. I find the continuing lack of comment from USA Eventing leadership troubling.

[Jealoushe]

All the posts saying to forgive and we all make mistakes……but this wasn’t a mistake. This is who he is based on the facts provided.

[trubandloki]

@Jealoushe

All the posts saying to forgive and we all make mistakes……but this wasn’t a mistake. This is who he is based on the facts provided.

I can not speak for others, but if that is how you are taking my comments, you are taking them 100% incorrectly.

[FromTheGalaxy]

I wonder if any of the UL riders on social medial calling for “kindness” and “empathy” toward AM have spoken to him personally since all this came to light? It makes me wonder how many of these people who had a personal relationship with him knew about his behavior and if any had discussed it with him. Maybe there have been private conversations about his mental state and his abusive tendencies, and that is why they are now calling for people to drop the “witch hunt,” because they have more insider information. Purely speculating here, but the UL eventing community comes across as a big “good ole boys club” and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were many that knew of this behavior prior to it coming out publicly, and that there may have been private discussions about it, but no one wanted to actually report him.

[trubandloki]

I think people are saying to drop the witch hunt not because they think Mr. McConnon should not be held responsible but because people are making huge leaps that a simple statement by someone must mean they have a life of horribly abusing horses too, or that anyone who uses a crop should be kicked out…and the list of crazy leaps goes on and on and on…as is so obvious here, it is crazy over the top here and all over social media.

We do not need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Mr. McConnon needs to be held responsible for what has come out. The governing bodies need to be held responsible for the things they have ignored.

The frenzy of people insisting that horses should only be given kisses while they stand barefoot in a 100 acre field needs to stop.

Those previous facebook posts explain it better, but forgiving does not mean ignoring or forgetting or making the bad thing go away.

[Jealoushe]

Wasn’t referring to you at all, not referring to anyone posting here but what’s on other social media platforms.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@FromTheGalaxy

Maybe there have been private conversations about his mental state and his abusive tendencies, and that is why they are now calling for people to drop the “witch hunt,” because they have more insider information.

Well… his mental state seemed just fine less than one week ago when he galloped around Burghley.

If he was really so mentally fragile that he might be at risk for self harm, I doubt he would have had the mental tenacity to tackle one of the toughest 5* cross country courses in the world. Come on now.

I’m sure he’s feeling pretty poorly now that this has gone public. But, I would imagine most people feel pretty poorly when facing serious disciplinary actions that will likely end their current professional careers and possibly result in expensive litigation.

I find the conflation of people who are in such a situation feeling deeply upset, conflating that with people who suffer from more general mental health challenges such as depression … I find this to be disingenuous and inappropriate and frankly a bit of a “head fake” if you will.

I don’t think everyone who is now wringing their hands and chattering about this online is pulling a head fake… some folks are probably naïve. But others? Nope.

[wanderlust]

I’ve had a lot of feels, mostly unpleasant, reading this thread. I’ve had two really lovely, quiet horses absolutely fried by training methods not nearly as harsh as what is shown in these videos.

One was a younger horse I’d bought as 3yo and backed. He was absolutely dead quiet and unflappable about almost anything, and had been in nothing but top programs that brought him along thoughtfully. I moved states and brought him to a trainer that was highly recommended by people I knew and trusted. After 2-3 rides with their pro, the horse was completely different - spooky, reactive and scary to sit on. The trainer blamed ulcers. It turns out this recently-hired pro rider was both unskilled and handsy, and “training” involved ripping the horse’s teeth out to get them to halt, or running them into the wall if they didn’t like the approach or distance. I had to send him back to my old barn to decompress, and then out to a professional in FL to really fix. He is now packing a 63 year old woman around the long stirrup… that is truly how quiet this horse is.

The other was a lovely, quiet but sensitive overachiever of a chestnut mare who was a little stressed about making the lines. She needed just a touch of re-education on the flat to become more adjustable. I left her with the same pro who fixed my younger horse. For some inexplicable reason, they decided the way to make her more adjustable was to ride her in super tight draw reins, put her on a 9’ canter step and ride her like that every day for the 6 months they had her. When my life was finally in a place to bring her home, she was a hot mess of anxiety who was completely unable to canter unless held into a tiny ball, but also either curled or giraffed with any contact. Two years later, we are still trying to undo the physical and mental damage this type of riding did (nevermind my guilt for not paying closer attention is still ongoing).

Which is why the Andrew McConnon vids are so triggering to me. My experience has shown that even a little short-term unkindness can unsettle the easiest horses, and you can permanently f*ck up good horses up with way less aggression than what he has displayed. I cannot even imagine trying to ride and undo the damage of the ones that have come out of his program. I have no empathy for him and if tar and feathering were still a thing, he’d deserve the public shame.

[Marigold]

@trubandloki

It sounds like M/CB are walking the walk, not just talking the talk and their caring and compassion extends not only to horses but to humans too.

I feel badly saying this, because generally I quite enjoy the Matt Cecily Brown posts and think they have interesting things to contribute and I hope they continue, but in this case they are not walking the walk. If you are willing to post a list of abusive practices you have witnessed on social media, but you are not willing to report those practices because you are “not ready to become a whistleblower” despite owning your own business and having your own established base, you are simply talking the talk. And to choose to join a conversation started by brave staff members who very much jeopardized their livelihoods to defend these horses from a person who I’m more than willing to bet is retaliative, talking the talk as an established professional simply isn’t good enough. I would prefer silence on the matter over that.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s an insightful perspective. Thanks for sharing that thought. I can understand it. I don’t like it… but I get it.

[trubandloki]

@Marigold

@trubandloki

It sounds like M/CB are walking the walk, not just talking the talk and their caring and compassion extends not only to horses but to humans too.

I feel badly saying this, because generally I quite enjoy the Matt Cecily Brown posts and think they have interesting things to contribute and I hope they continue, but in this case they are not walking the walk. If you are willing to post a list of abusive practices you have witnessed on social media, but you are not willing to report those practices because you are “not ready to become a whistleblower” despite owning your own business and having your own established base, you are simply talking the talk. And to choose to join a conversation started by brave staff members who very much jeopardized their livelihoods to defend these horses from a person who I’m more than willing to bet is retaliative, talking the talk as an established professional simply isn’t good enough. I would prefer silence on the matter over that.

So you are ignoring the part where they have reported people at events and other things and the people in charge have done nothing?

They have to make a list for you to be OK with them, reporting at the time is not good enough for you?

Now do you see why this is being called a witch hunt?

I can totally see why one who has tried to report at the time and time and time again been ignored would not want to turn around and make a list right now.

I am sorry that you can not understand that and you want to hang someone out to dry because they have tried but I guess not to the level that you demand they try.

That says more about you than about them.

[DownYonder]

Absolutely agree that it was the USEF legal counsel who advised TPTB at USEF that the organization couldn’t do anything other than refer the matter to FEI, and who also advised them to be as opaque as possible in any press release or statement about the situation - including not divulging individual names behind the statement.

I also agree that AC is remaining quiet on advice of an attorney while they wait to see what FEI will do. Meanwhile, he is probably working with an attorney and a public relations person to draft a statement - actually several different statements. Which one they use will depend on the FEI decision. It will be interesting to see if he ignores or denies the reports of abuse or if he grows a set and owns up to his misdeeds - and if he promises to seek mental health counseling to get to the root of why he feels the need to take out his deep-seated rage on his horses. Given the reports of his past behaviors and his father’s rather interesting attempts to cover up for his son, I am not holding my breath that AC will admit his wrongdoing or agree to mental health counseling.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

With all due respect, I think you are misinterpreting what @Marigold is saying here , and misunderstanding the point she is making, and reaching an unfair personal conclusion about her.

We are talking about established 5* riders here. We are talking about them not being willing to step up and report abuse.

Why might that be? PERHAPS Because it is profoundly political at the tippy top of the sport, and which riders have longtime connections to certain coaches and people in leadership roles? That matters. And if one is inclined to read between the lines… one might conclude that reporting abuse allegations against a well connected rider… that could be super detrimental to one’s career.

Sooooo… we now see this one social media post by MCB being shared and reshared by multiple well established 5* riders, a post which involves non specific statements about abuse (meaning they don’t want to identify or call out anyone in particular) … and in this case it’s left to the grooms and former clients to do the actual reporting and suffer the associated retaliation.

[Marigold]

@trubandloki

So you are ignoring the part where they have reported people at events and other things and the people in charge have done nothing?

They have to make a list for you to be OK with them, reporting at the time is not good enough for you?

Now do you see why this is being called a witch hunt?

I can totally see why one who has tried to report at the time and time and time again been ignored would not want to turn around and make a list right now.

I am sorry that you can not understand that and you want to hang someone out to dry because they have tried but I guess not to the level that you demand they try.

That says more about you than about them.

Whoa. To be honest, I don’t have a whole lot of other context for what they have or haven’t done. I am just taking them at their word, directly from what they wrote in their post.

They listed thirteen different fairly heinous examples of blatant horse abuse, claimed that

abuse is around almost every corner of every farm and horseshow if you have your eyes open and are paying attention, and most, if not all of our idols practice or have practiced some form of it

but then went on to say

the thing I worried the most about making public was not my own transgressions, but whether or not naming the transgressions I’ve witnessed or have been privy to are sparse enough on details as to not blatantly identify the perpetrators, as I myself, while disgusted by these actions, am not ready to be the whistleblower.

They say that

the collective we must get better at holding people accountable, big name or no name

but don’t talk about anything that they have done outside of a list of anonymous abuses on social media.

As I’ve said, I generally enjoy their posts. But I will reiterate: I don’t consider it walking the walk to join a conversation started by people who put their livelihoods on the line, only to list horrific things you have witnessed but not reported.

If there is more information out there about what they have reported and when, I’m more than happy for you to share it with me. I was just taking their own words at face value as written. I’m not personally affiliated with them at all, and know very little about them besides watching Matt ride in competition and seeing their posts on social media. I’m not sure how that was misconstrued, but given the larger situation we are dealing with here I’m certainly not out here running side missions to take posters on social media and “hang them out to dry”.

ETA: thank you @Virginia_Horse_Mom, I appreciate your clarification! Said it better than I could.

[Blugal]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Well… his mental state seemed just fine less than one week ago when he galloped around Burghley.

If he was really so mentally fragile that he might be at risk for self harm, I doubt he would have had the mental tenacity to tackle one of the toughest 5* cross country courses in the world. Come on now.

Separating the discussion of a particular person (AM) and their abuse from the discussion on mental health, I think the sentiment above needs examining.

Lots of top sportspeople have histories of childhood abuse, trauma, etc., or have mental health issues, and are very successful in sport - sport often acting as an escape/release. If you are interested in a “good” story on this topic, read multi-sport Olympic medallist Clara Hughes’ “Open Heart, Open Mind”.

A 5* eventer who struggled with mental health issues, and ultimately took his life, was Matthew Wright - he started the charity Riders Minds in the UK to assist and support riders.

On the other hand, plenty of top sportspeople have strong personalities; plenty have personality disorders. These also can lend themselves to being at the top of sport - lack of empathy, selfishness, competitive nature prioritized over sportsmanship and horsemanship.

There are reasons to consider carefully what we are saying, and what conclusions we are drawing, when we don’t have a lot of facts. Horse abuse is unacceptable, and yes, we are struggling with the fact governing bodies seem to have failed to address the abuse. But we don’t need to send the message to other people who may be struggling with genuine mental health issues: if you are struggling and have made a mistake, the entire community will vilify you, there is no point in trying to take responsibility, there is no escape. That can lead to really bad outcomes.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s solid food for thought and I appreciate you responding with that perspective. I will put some of my cynicism on pause and try to think a bit more about the issue.

[trubandloki]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

We are talking about established 5* riders here. We are talking about them not being willing to step up and report abuse.

This person has said that they have stepped up and reported abuse. In that updated thing you shared, they explained how they have done that, more than once.

I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times I’ve told someone at a horseshow to stop whacking or jerking on their horse.

I’ve been called a “mother fucking do gooder” to my face for speaking up to a professional who was mishandling his students horse in front of officials and everyone in warm up. Said officials told ME to not engage with him when he was getting in to my face calling me names.

Now, if I see something bad, I say something. Usually directly to the person, or alert an official (when I witnessed the top rider punching her horse in the face in warm up I turned around and marched up to the FEI steward in the ring and told him what happened.

[FitzE]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

and in this case it’s left to the grooms and former clients to do the actual reporting and suffer the associated retaliation.

This is the real heartbreak here. The BNTs and BNRs know but let the littlest of the little guys take the bullets. Not right. Not fair. Not admirable.

@DownYonder

agree that it was the USEF legal counsel who advised TPTB at USEF that the organization couldn’t do anything other than refer the matter to FEI

I am also a lawyer and I would love to hear their counsel’s take on what appear to be a big problem for their client: the USEF is violating its own rules by allowing someone to remain a member who has repeatedly violated the USEF Code of Conduct. The only investigation needed regarding that point is IDing the rider and, once that was confirmed, membership revoked/renewal denied. No grey area or complexity regarding where it occurred. Does it violate the CoC? Yes. Then that’s an end to it. That legal counsel will need to craft a statement as to why the organisation is not upholding its own published rules and standards.

And just a reminder (not to people here but generally): remember, a witch hunt is the search for something that doesn’t exist (a witch) with the aim of harming someone (the person you accuse of being a witch).

This is the investigation of something that absolutely does exist (abuse) with the aim of stopping the abuse and removing the abuser.

[floppyammy]

@trubandloki

I think people are saying to drop the witch hunt not because they think Mr. McConnon should not be held responsible but because people are making huge leaps that a simple statement by someone must mean they have a life of horribly abusing horses too, or that anyone who uses a crop should be kicked out.…and the list of crazy leaps goes on and on and on…as is so obvious here, it is crazy over the top here and all over social media.

We do not need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Mr. McConnon needs to be held responsible for what has come out. The governing bodies need to be held responsible for the things they have ignored.

The frenzy of people insisting that horses should only be given kisses while they stand barefoot in a 100 acre field needs to stop.

Those previous facebook posts explain it better, but forgiving does not mean ignoring or forgetting or making the bad thing go away.

Literally no one on this board is saying that. There is a HUGE spectrum of difference between perpetuating the type of abuse AMC has dished out for over 10 years vs. no one should ever use a crop and horses should only be given kisses while they stand barefoot in a field.

The Matt Cecily Brown statement being lauded by upper level riders and insiders reads as problematic to me, simply because in this specific instance of AMC, this is not one instance of someone making an error in judgement or losing their temper once. This was systematic abuse perpetuated over a decade, during which time it was a “known secret” amongst insiders. What AMC did is pure and simple violence, perpetuated over and over again (for which he was purportedly warned against), for over a decade. I don’t think this circumstance or individual really deserves grace or empathy.

And I think what you and others are calling a “witch hunt” is the level of appalled most of us are, at both his actions and the response of the governing body. We are all seeking to understand how this could take place, for so long.

Like @millerra, I was shocked at the list of abuses Matt Cecily Brown has witnessed first-hand. I don’t claim to be anyone important, but I’ve been around a little, in some pretty varied industries, and I’ve seen nothing even approaching that laundry list of violations.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@trubandloki

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

We are talking about established 5* riders here. We are talking about them not being willing to step up and report abuse.

This person has said that they have stepped up and reported abuse. In that updated thing you shared, they explained how they have done that, more than once.

I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times I’ve told someone at a horseshow to stop whacking or jerking on their horse.

I’ve been called a “mother fucking do gooder” to my face for speaking up to a professional who was mishandling his students horse in front of officials and everyone in warm up. Said officials told ME to not engage with him when he was getting in to my face calling me names.

Now, if I see something bad, I say something. Usually directly to the person, or alert an official (when I witnessed the top rider punching her horse in the face in warm up I turned around and marched up to the FEI steward in the ring and told him what happened.

With all due respect… I think you are still missing a key nuance.

It is one thing to confront another rider face to face at a show, or to walk up to an official and complain or report something in person that you witnessed (but stop short of submitting photos or videos or a written statement)…

It is a whole different ballgame to make a formal report with USEF (including documentation) about serious sustained abuse that could result in an actual suspension or ban, and be the effective end of someone’s career.

MCB listed a number of things that could and should result in suspensions… at least… but they are unwilling to make formal reports to USEF about these things.

Back to the AM case… let’s again take note of the fact that the anonymous reporter TRIED seeking out advice from officials and people in positions of authority at USEF about reporting this abuse … and was met with ambivalence.

Reading between the lines … MCB and others who compete at that level and know how politics work know that they will face repercussions if they make formal reports about abuse. So… it’s left to the “less important” people… like grooms… to do it.

That’s a serious problem.