Right - whoops, I specifically meant she is not in any of the case status tables. Maybe due to the case not being open?
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Ugh, Andy is another who deserves tar, feathers and public shaming. Unfortunately I think people like him and the subject of this thread are incapable of feeling anything other than hubris, ego and indignation.
The sad thing is, I think many riders at the very top of equestrian sport do unsavory things to get there and stay there. Maybe it happens less in eventing, but in showjumping the use of spring poles and electrified poles to make the horses careful is pretty much an open secret. Upper level dressage, well, weāve seen what that looks like and it isnāt pretty.
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The USEF absolutely has ājurisdictionā here.
this Code of Conduct applies to the following individuals at all times: Board of Directors, Officers, volunteers (including all committee, council, and task force members), employees, members, participants, athletes (and athlete support personnel), owners, competition organizers and managers, licensed officials, coaches, chefs dāequipe, and others appointed or authorized to act on behalf of the USEF:
(bolding mine)
Any suggestion that they do not is disingenuous at best, an outright lie/cover up/dereliction of the duty of governance at worst (and what is most likely the case).
They had the power and the ājurisdictionā to act on this immediately May 12. A hearing with AM present could have been held and an outcome reached by June at the latest. He would have been suspended or expelled by then, the USEA informed, the money could have been returned as it would not have been spent on the Burghley trip, and that grant redistributed to deserving developing riders.
The USEF 100% violated its own rules and regulations by not acting on the violation of the CoC in May. Members should not believe/take at face value/allow the lie that they had no jurisdiction and had to kick it to the FEI.
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I am admittedly a no body but I have never heard of electrified poles and now anytime I see a horse soaring over a GP height fence I will wonder if thatās talent or pain.
More and more I wonder why these āupper levelsā even exist. What is the point of pushing an animal to the end of their abilities? Who actually gains from this? Itās starting to appear to just be a giant dick measuring contest.
Every time that gets asked, it turns into āwell why ride horses at all?ā and while I canāt answer that with certainty, I can answer with certainty that electrifying a pole has literally never crossed my mind - maybe thatās the difference between the upper levels and us plebs.
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Thanks for sharing this relevant information concerning the FEI process.
Per the reporting from Eventing Nation, the FEI was still investigating and interviewing people during the summer months after receiving the initial report (punted to them by USEF). EN was unable to confirm (they were careful with their wording) whether or not AM has yet received a formal notification or charge letter from the FEI, nor were they able to verify that a formal case had been opened yet.
At this time, it seems like it is an open question as to what the next steps with the FEI might be.
From the process information you linked, it seems like a formal and detailed āNotification Letterā is an essential first step in the process if the abuse complaint is ever going to result in any action or sanctions by a governing body.
You should let USEF know this ASAP! Iām sure they would appreciate picking up any off competition abuse cases prior to 12/1/24. I mean I get it, their cadre of lawyers has determined that their ability to enforce code of conduct issues outside of competitions does not meet the risk threshold. But clearly they are incorrect by your estimation.
So just draft up an opinion that explains why you are correct and all those other lawyers are not and send it to them. Free legal advice is always fun, so Iām sure they will appreciate it. Itās not like they werenāt already committed to getting to the same place via rule change, so you providing them with case law and precedent confirming the legal basis to your opinion will be a lot more beneficial to all involved vs litigating this on a bulletin board.
Srsly, the odds donāt favor you being correct, but if you are, you will only be helping horses, so in that sense, I truly wish you well. But beating that dead horse here isnāt doing much of anything.
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Wow, if you could have said any of that without the 8th grade snark, maybe we could have a conversation. But, I guess you value a sassy put down post rather than actual discussion.
Pray, tell, how do you get a plain reading of āapplies to the following individuals at all timesā to mean it does not apply at all times? Thatās a legal manoeuvre Iād love to be walked through and you appear to be just the legal genius to do it based on your blistering response. 
PS: maybe they didnāt teach this at your law school, but you donāt need ācase law and precedentā to uphold your own rules as a private organisation. Or litigation, on a bulletin board or otherwise.
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Given my experience with the USEF blantantly disregarding things like amateur violations that are 100% codified in the rules, Iād conjecture that the USEF determined the easiest/fastest/safest path for them to deal with this was a reciprocal ban after an FEI decision. Thereās zero gray area there and no need for any interpretation of CoC that could lead to lawsuits, etc.
USEF has shown over and over and over that they are looking out for themselves first and foremost.
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This really has me shaking my head. Who IS this guy (AM) and what does he have over someone to be treated with such kid gloves? I also follow eventing but not close enough to know who he is until he went to Burghley.
Again, I truly am all for due diligence but the evidence seemed enough for at least some provisional suspension. I just cannot understand how the USEF kicked this up to FEI while seemingly doing nothing.
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In better news, the U.S. Equestrian magazine was in the mail today, and along with the usual suspensions for medication violations, there was a six month suspension from USEF and a $5,000. fine for horse abuse by a rider at the Twin River Spring International horse trials .
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Possibly a stupid question and I donāt have time to scroll back 800 posts to find an answer.
Do we have documented and clear evidence on the date AMC knew an investigation involving him was on going? I wouldnāt be entirely shocked if the policy is to NOT notify the accused until formal charges or suspensions are brought, to prevent retaliation against current employees if they are the ones bringing a complaint (I know this case was past employees).
Anyways I ask cause it could be entirely likely AMC found out at the rest of the time when the FB videos were released over the weekend. Which would be a sh!t was to find out for sure, but Iām not entirely sure he knew in May the investigation was starting.
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Regardless of your opinion of my āsnarkā, IāM not the one you have to convince. This bulletin board is not the one you have to convince. If you have a valid legal opinion (and you have gone to some lengths to let us know that you do) why not send it to the one place where it might do some good?
ETA are you familiar with AHSA and the Paul Valliere history? Understandably, if you are not, the organization has a 4+ decade history of saying jurisdiction is limited to the show grounds and organization events. And for cases far more egregious than this one.
While you do not need case law for organization rules, I imagine if you are taken to court for overturning a long held position like that without changing your rules, ESPECIALLY if you have a pending rule change to address that long held position, that you, as an organization, would not withstand a legal challenge without some compelling case history to support you.
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Good question.
Per Eventing Nationās report in the timeline portion - specifically the June - August 2024 section:
Though we have not been able to confirm that Andrew has yet received a formal notification or charge letter, during this period of time he did become aware that the FEI was looking into the matter. He has indicated to EN that he is fully cooperating with their investigation, which is still ongoing. EN has also not been able to verify that a formal case has been opened yet, though witnesses confirm that the FEI did communicate that they were working on preparing one, and that the process would take some time. The witnesses expressed concern to the FEI about the time the investigation was taking, as by the end of August Andrew was preparing to compete at Defender Burghley. The witnesses also requested additional clarity from the FEI in terms of the investigation process and what would be needed to open a formal case. The next reply with an update on the investigation was provided from the FEI on September 11, though we are not privy to what that step is.
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Also in the USEF mag. was a mention of 42 grants given to licensed official applicants to help with the not inconsiderable expense required to become licensed, or for a license promotion.
I think they are on the right track with that. I hope they can increase the number of TDs.
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Just an aside. When Matt was a big fish in the small pool of northern CA he would always do Twin Rivers. Itās a fun place when itās not 105 degrees.
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Hey, Andrew, is that you? 
But let me get this straight: your main concern is the timing of making the report, not the horrendous abuse of the animals. Right. Got it.
Please read the articles in which it is explained that at least one of the reporters approached many people about reporting and was rebuffed. Also please see above where people using their real names explain that Andrew has been highly retaliatory against anyone who even speaks up to him, let alone to the authorities.
The real story here, as always, isnāt when it was released, but what it shows.
Note, also, that going after the person who reported it, including calling them āsh***yā is against USEF rules so you might want to have a care there.
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I donāt have to āconvinceā anyone. Iām having a discussion. You know, on a discussion board. Like everyone else here. Maybe wind your neck in? The aggressive snark is not only not appreciated, it detracts from the discussion.
Also, I find it really curious that youāre willing to be so aggressive towards another poster (who is merely joining the discussion with everyone else and taking the anti-abuse side) for the purpose of defending an organisation doing nothing to stop an abuser. Thatās a very unusual stance to take. If Iām going to be a real jerk to someone, like youāve decided to be to me, it should at least be in service of a position Iām passionate about. Being a USEF apologist seems like an unusual hill to die on.
I do know that US courts go for a āplain readingā of the language of operative docs, and the language here plainly says āapplies at all timesā to āmembersā. Thatās not a āvalid legal opinionā, itās a plain reading of the org docs. The USEF legal team would have to articulate how āapplies at all timesā doesnāt mean āapplies at all timesā but, actually, means āapplies only at USEF eventsā.
Failure to self-govern previously isnāt a terribly persuasive argument for not abiding by your own rules and regulations. I know I wouldnāt want to hang my hat on that argument as it wouldnāt support the weight of a straw boater.
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A lot of people have been through tough childhoods, been mentally, physically, or sexually abused etc, and donāt go on to abuse any animals, children, or people. Thatās a cop out. So no, I donāt have any pity for abusers. They need to be kept away from animals.
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I appreciate the empathy here and I think the fear of being vilified or cancelled for a once-in-a-blue-moon ābad momentā caught on video is very common. I think a lot of that fear is because we ALL have instances we regret. Itās a reflection of our own shame.
But when these types of videos and accusations come out, itās almost never something that happened once. Itās rare that they arenāt connected to a bigger pattern of abuse. Itās rare for accusations to be false. Itās also VERY rare for them to be about anyone who isnāt a fairly high profile professional, and those pros need to realize they are public figures. They will be videoed. If they are behaving poorly, it will eventually come out.
Itās possible Andrew has a mental health issue, because itās possible ANYONE does. It does not resolve you of personal responsibility in 99% of cases - the ātruly canāt be held responsibleā tier of mental illness leads to inpatient treatment, not Burghley. If youāre too unwell to ride without punching your horse in the face (!), you should be on the phone to a therapist and not riding until the issue is resolved, even if that requires a career change.
I know Andrew and his family, although I havenāt seen any of them in years. This is his profession and he has violated his ethical duty to the horses in his care, his clients, his students, his sponsors. No one says stockbrokers accused of insider trading āmade a mistakeā or might be mentally unwellā¦
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I always think that riders saying be kind when another rider has behaved badly are thinking about their own behaviours
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