Does AM still have Eddy or did the owner pull him?
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@Amberley, are you comfortable sharing who that is? I thought everyone mentioned in Hot Blood was gone.
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Wow read the comments on that Facebook post!!
@FEI_Communications playing they didnāt get the report???
Does no one at the FEI go on the internet to see all the posts and articles???
The gaslighting is real.
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Paul Valliere Iād guess. It isnāt a āsecret.ā
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Bureaucratic weaponized incompetence like this infuriates me. Iām so mad right now.
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SO MAD!
Like they are actually playing dumb.
And when horse sports get obliterated by the public then itās us who will be blamed.
We need a social media campaign or something.
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So the Sept. 12 episode of The Jon and Rick Show discussed the AM situation. Overall takeaways from their POV really pissed me off but I decided to be quiet and not say anything. However, after weeks later and nothing and now hearing the FEI is claiming they havenāt even received the report, just want to recap what was said on this podcast-- because while Iām not claiming Jon and Rick are responsible for this garbage, I do think itās a pretty dang good window into the culture that has allowed this to fester in the dark for so many years without consequences. Going back and listening to it again and pasting the transcript snippets here raises my blood pressure.
A few quotes from the show are below. Please keep in mind that throughout the entire segment, NOT ONE TIME is Andrewās name mentioned. He is referred to as a ātop competitorā initially and then āheā or āthis personā or āhimā after that. Also, Jon makes it clear at the beginning that he has to be āa little bit careful with what I say about it because of my different roles in the sport.ā
Jon: But hereās what I can say, and I think this encapsulates it best. Itās the best thing Iāve heard, and it was from David OāConnor weeks ago, but I know heās said it for a long time. And I think this is just something for all of us as professionals, whether weāre experienced like you and I or weāre new into the sport.
David said to me, and it really has hit home more and more the more I think about it, when youāre training your horses, whether youāre alone or not, if you donāt think that you could do that in Central Park in New York, with people watching and explain it to them so that they would understand why youāre doing what youāre doing, then donāt do it.
Rick: Jon, weāve all loved our horses. Weāve been in this for years. Look, Iām not making any judgment calls. I think due process will happen. āI think a lot of people out there Iām seeing are itās like blood in the water for sharks and stuff. I think there is a lot happening behind the scenes with the federations and with organizations.
ā¦ I used to be on the board for the USEA. And I can tell you, Rob Burke is not taking this lightly. I think when youāre in those positions, you have to do the right thing, do due diligence, and then pave a road forward.
[Rick continues on with some commentary about how most professionals love their horses and this isnāt normal behavior and then provides some guidance about not losing your temper when training horses]
Rick: ā¦ everybody out there, let due process happen. Iām saying that rider and that professional, if itās all true and what Iāve seen, they need to do a lot of soul searching and maybe perhaps pretty soon come out with a statement of what that soul searching is. But just everybody out there, our horses, our life, and our loves and our friends, treat them like that.
Jon: And just the last little thing Iāll say is I do know it is being looked at. It already was. It is being investigated as a bunch of things are. Iām not privy to any of that, and that is all being dealt with in the correct channels as it should be. So I know thereās people who want things to happen immediately, but I do think we have to go through the process. So enough on that.
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It just boggles my mind that so many are willing to ālook the other wayā or not outright say this abuse is wrong. Why is it so hard to stand up for the horses? CDJ is being put thru Hell (not saying what she did was ok) and this pos is just going on like nothing happened. With so many non horse eyes on horse sports now, TPTB are single handedly bringing down the sport. Donāt think for a second there are not people out there (PETA) savoring every minute nothing is done for the horses. Just give them enough ammunition and there will be nothing we can do to make it right.
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Iām not surprised Rick will pipe in about the online comments, his daughter has been the target online many times for some of her questionable choices with training horses.
Interesting they believe things will happen if you sit around and wait, thatās clearly not the case here.
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"**Changes to GR838 Addressing Unethical Treatment of a Horse
"At US Equestrian, we fully believe that the care and welfare of horses, both inside and outside of the competition arena, must be held to the highest standards and levels of ethical behavior. Good horsemanship and a positive image of our sport is, now more than ever before, of critical importance to our social license to continue to operate our sport. It is the duty of each one of us to do our utmost to preserve and safeguard the integrity of our sport.
Individuals who engage in unethical treatment of horsesāregardless of locationāare compromising the integrity of our sport and endangering its viability, sustainability, and public perception at a time when all equestrian sport, including USEF-governed breeds and disciplines, is under increasing scrutiny.
Situations such as those that have come to light recently via social media are unacceptable. US Equestrian has heard your concerns and appreciates the courage it takes to report alleged incidents of cruelty to and abuse of our equine partners. We understand and share your frustration that, in many instances, we could not act on incidents that occurred outside of the competition environment.
Based on your feedback and conversations that occurred during our annual convention, the USEF Board of Directors approved revisions to GR838, the rule addressing cruelty and abuse. The revised GR838 will go into effect December 1, 2024.
||ā¢||The revisions replace the phrase ācruelty to and abuse of a horseā with āunethical treatment of a horseā to more accurately reflect US Equestrianās role as guardian of both sport and our horses.|
|ā¢||Most significantly, the revised rule applies anywhere, regardless of whether the unethical treatment is in connection to or occurring at a USEF licensed or endorsed competition.||
To be clear, this new rule does not mean that US Equestrian will be coming onto your property. We will not.
Rather, we will continue to rely on you to report incidents of unethical treatment of the horse. Once a report is received, US Equestrian will work diligently to interview witnesses with personal knowledge and authenticate any photographs, videos, or other physical evidence related to the alleged incident. This takes time. All allegations are taken seriously. While we are eager to hold wrongdoers accountable, fairness and the integrity of the process dictate that they have the opportunity to be heard and offer evidence in response.
The time has come for the US Equestrian community to strengthen our existing leadership on this issue for the betterment of horses and equestrian sport. This also means that each of us must model exemplary behavior at all times. We believe the revisions to GR838, coupled with the existing process and procedures, protect both our horses and our members.
Lead with us.
William J. Moroney
Chief Executive Officer"
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Thank you very much for posting. This is a great thing to hear from USEF, and Iām hopeful they will actually put their money where their mouth is and follow through on these cases.
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But why the delayed effective date of Dec 1? Their own docs state that an extraordinary rule change takes effect immediately unless a different effective date is provided. I.e., if they had NOT set a date of Dec. 1, 2024, this rule would already be in effect. They had to actively create a situation in which it did NOT take effect immediately. If I were a member, Iād want a clear explanation of the rationale behind the delayed effective date.
Also, USEF, see your CoC which applies āat all timesā. If you only look to your rules that address competitions and ignore your CoC, then Iām not surprised you found you had no reach in all these cases that happen outside competition. Itās like someone asking me to tighten a screw and I reach into my toolbox and pick up a hammer and tell them, āsorry, I canāt tighten a screw with this hammer hereā but they are looking in my wide-open toolbox at the screw driver I refuse to pick up. Madness! And dereliction of their duty to follow their own org docs and their duty to protect horses and their duty to protect the sport.
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This is not news. The rule change was proposed early this year. The Chronicle had an article about it. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/usef-proposes-rule-changes-strengthening-its-ability-to-punish-abuse-off-show-grounds/
It was approved in July. It will come into force in December.
https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/UbdlK2wO6pI
FitzE is wondering why the wait.
ETA Sorry, meant for anonevent.
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I think this is the right response from USEF.
It accounts for both situations like the topic of the conversation and the rights of the accused. Because as much as we want all bad actors OUT, you also donāt want to be at risk of losing your livelihood because of AI fakes or moments out of context.
There is a protocol for rule changes and they are following said protocol.
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USEF finally releasing a statement condemning Andrewās conduct as patently āunacceptableā to them is the newsworthy part, in my opinion.
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My only question is how they are going to define āunethicalā. Is it like porn (you know it when you see it)? It seems like without some definition, one personās āokā behavior could be anotherās āunethicalā. Ethics can be harder to define than abuse, IMHO. But I guess the courts will straighten that out.
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I think it has to be a āknow it when you see itā situation because otherwise it runs the gamut. For example, something like using draw reinsā¦ oy vey. If it can be hotly debated like that they likely wonāt touch it.
But repeatedly hitting a horse in the head? Thatās pretty clear cut.
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This is total speculation. Iām not an attorney. I could be totally off base, but I wonder if part of the reason that these organizations do not take immediate action without the wrongdoers admitting that what they did was egregious, or without them being charged with a crime, might be that disciplinary action that is made public (like a temporary ban from certain competitions while an investigation is completed) risks compromising someoneās business/income and, if the wrongdoer were litigious and could prove financial damages, it could expose the FEI/USEF etc to expensive lawsuits.
Charlotte came out and said āyeahā¦what I did in this video was really fāed up.ā so it was safer to penalize her. If Andrew stays silent or argues that what he did by punching the horse in the head was sweet and affectionate or something, the USEF/FEI really has to go through a process that provides enough proof that their disciplinary action would hold up in court. Maybe? I donāt know.
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Wait - am I reading this right?? FEI has claimed they never received the report that USEF supposedly sent??? WTF? Why doesnāt USEF send it again??
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They would have a D&O insurance policy which would cover the lawsuits I would think?
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