Animal Communicator?

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8895681]
It wasn’t my post, so possible I could be misreading it, but that’s how it came across to me.

And finding a real AC is nothing like finding a trainer.

If I want to find a trainer, I ask some friends, maybe look at websites and Facebook pages, maybe check some review sites (Yelp, etc), look up show results if I’m interested in showing, and set up some appointments to go out and watch some lessons and training sessions. Before the trainer gets a penny of my money, I have seen them in action, have seen their results, and have a pretty good idea of what I am getting in to and what results I can expect.

I’m not making a decision based on word of mouth; I have first-hand experience.

If I want to find an AC, I have to go by word of mouth (assuming any of my friends have had legitimate experiences, which they have not) or by searching out for the random webpages (which is advertising, and as a sole source of information, not definitively trustworthy).

.[/QUOTE]

But this is exactly how I found a couple of ACS. word of mouth

I did, you know, have a real conversation with real people. Again, don’t rely on the internet. Meet people, network, compare things. This is exactly how I find my trainers.

[I][B]The only way to tell if the AC is a real one or a fake is to pay them and find out.

[/B][/I]Nope.
many of them have gallery readings so you can watch other people get read and are FREE.

Again, I am not talking about the online presence- those that book online. Of course those are “pay first”. I don’t do that, many do. they are often very very expensive.

[Coanteen]

Why are the ACs (especially ones who keep picking up emotions from horses not in the vicinity that they’re not actively trying to read) not driven batty by all the aches and pains and complaints of, say, the pigeons all around them? Or pigs or cows as a nearby farm?

[Gestalt]

[QUOTE=Coanteen;8896410]
Why are the ACs (especially ones who keep picking up emotions from horses not in the vicinity that they’re not actively trying to read) not driven batty by all the aches and pains and complaints of, say, the pigeons all around them? Or pigs or cows as a nearby farm?[/QUOTE]

They “tune in” to only one animal. They ask permission to enter that animals world of communication. They don’t willy nilly listen to animal conversations. Disbelieve if you want, those of us that have had positive experiences have the right to our feelings and thoughts.

And to the poster that gave the belly laugh over a rib out - I was not able to sleep or relax once because as soon as I stopped moving I would have an aching pain in my side. Went to the doctor and he couldn’t find anything, set me up for some tests, but in the meantime I stopped at the vets to get something (don’t remember what) and she saw I was miserable. I told her what I felt and she took her hand and slowly moved it in front of my chest/stomach area. Then she said you’ve got a rib out. About 6 seconds of her pressing two fingers on a rib and I was fixed. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Just because people have different experiences than you doesn’t mean you get to discount them.

[Halt_Near_X]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8895693]
But this is exactly how I found a couple of ACS. word of mouth[/QUOTE]

I guess I just keep waiting until someone whose judgement I trust tells me about a convincing encounter, then.

I don’t have enough hubris to suggest that we know enough about how the mind and communication works to rule out AC definitively, but I suspect I’m going to be sitting on my skeptical sideline for a long, long time.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8896683]
I guess I just keep waiting until someone whose judgement I trust tells me about a convincing encounter, then.

I don’t have enough hubris to suggest that we know enough about how the mind and communication works to rule out AC definitively, but I suspect I’m going to be sitting on my skeptical sideline for a long, long time.[/QUOTE]

sure, I have found that once the conversation gets rolling, many more of my friends have used ACs than I ever imagined. No one will admit it, including me.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8896667]
They “tune in” to only one animal. They ask permission to enter that animals world of communication. [/QUOTE]

yes, agree

[Diamontaire]

I’ve had experiences with both good and bad ACs. The bad one- your horse loves you and wants to try very hard for you. Um, not convincing, he loves food and grooming, so I’m sure it appears he loves “me”.

The good one- bought a horse that had bucked off his six previous owners, and he was six years old. Pretty much bought him just to get him out of there. Kind and willing on the ground, vicious bucker. AC told me before you spend any more money on this horse, have his jaw Xrayed, something is wrong in there. Did so, it had been broken. Rode him in a rope halter and gave him away as a companion horse with full disclosure of the jaw issue.

[rainpants]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8896667]

And to the poster that gave the belly laugh over a rib out - I was not able to sleep or relax once because as soon as I stopped moving I would have an aching pain in my side. Went to the doctor and he couldn’t find anything, set me up for some tests, but in the meantime I stopped at the vets to get something (don’t remember what) and she saw I was miserable. I told her what I felt and she took her hand and slowly moved it in front of my chest/stomach area. Then she said you’ve got a rib out. About 6 seconds of her pressing two fingers on a rib and I was fixed. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Just because people have different experiences than you doesn’t mean you get to discount them.[/QUOTE]

I get a rib out a couple times a year (always the same one). Its very painful I’m very glad my chiropractor can fix it in just a few minutes each time!

My horse also seems to get them out - I can tell when she gets SUPER cinchy. And I can empathize for sure, I know how sore it can be!

[2horseygirls]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8894647]
This^ nailed it. When you do it yourself, there IS a huge difference. Belief systems are a matter of faith, animal husbandry is hopefully a matter of best-practice evidence. People will do what they want with their own money.[/QUOTE]

I don’t disagree with you here, and also agree that it should, under no circumstances, replace practical veterinary advice. But there are some things that just cannot be explained by science, and there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the experience.

@Lady Eboshi;8894647

COTH used to be one of the best places online for horsemen to come together and exchange useful information; it’s a measure of how thoroughly it’s now jumped the shark that one can LOSE a debate arguing from a common sense perspective about phone-telepath AC’s and made-up “ailments.” Nobody left here but the Crazy Horse Ladeez!

I’ve learned a huge amount from COTH members, crazy or not. Just because someone believes something other than what you do does not necessarily mean they are crazy, or one is right and the other has to be wrong - it means your belief systems are incompatible, and you will most likely never agree. There is still something to be learned, even if it is what not to do.

An incredibly well-regarded horseman advised attendees at a state horse fair to apply used diesel oil :eek::eek::eek: to horses’ feathers to cure scratches. :eek::eek::eek: Mr. 2HG was poised to restrain me physically from leaping from my seat screeching; I settled for having a discreet word with the president of the state equine organization about the validity of information presented by ‘expert’ speakers.

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8894647]TO THE LURKERS: PLEASE read the article at the following link, by one of California’s foremost practicing veterinarians. He states the case persuasively that the proliferation of “services” peer pressure is elevating to “needs” among some horse owners are needlessly compounding the worry, expense, and complications of ownership to the point where people hesitate to get into horses. The truth remains that almost all are completely unnecessary.
I find his point of view persuasive; very worth your time to read:

http://www.doctorramey.com/the-cost-of-satisfaction/[/QUOTE]

I do enjoy Dr. Ramey’s perspective on many topics, but it is tempered with the knowledge that his mother offers a horse training camp in Indiana with bordering-on-hoarderesque housekeeping standards, that two previous attendees still refer to as “Spider Camp” after leaving 4 days into a two-week session several years ago. As with any information from any source, I take what he says with a large grain (or two) of salt.

[Jamie.S]

Someone else once paid to get my pony “read”. I was told by a very well known AC that he used to do pony rides. When I got him, he was 3 years old and not even halter broke- scared to death of people. I’ve been his only owner since then. Would have been some wild pony rides.

As some others have mentioned, I think spending time with your horses is the best way to get to know them and how they express themselves. Yesterday, before seeing my mare take a step, I could tell something was bothering her by the scrunched up look on her face (cut by her hoof was making her sore). They may not speak in “words”, but if you get to know them well enough, your animals DO communicate with you…

[SendenHorse]

This is NOT a substitute for ANYTHING, its a complement. Can we get past that now?

Its is not replacing vet care
It does not replace chiro, massage, saddle fitting
It doles not replace training and time with the horse.

There are things you can only get by intutuion, yes, but you have to have an idea of your own horse to APPLY it, sometimes.

“Sore in the right shoulder” what does that mean? it means check out that area WITH the trainer, vet, farrier, etc.

Use your tools. This is just another tool to enhance the communication and wellbeing. I have had to work very hard at my program no matter what intuition I have had, or not have. I still have to do my part “normal ways” to build the relationships. The old timer way

[EmilyM]

I did it for a horse that I had that I swear had a mental disability. It didn’t help at all. She said someone in his past (a tall blonde and a fat guy) hit him over the head, and he had a vision issue. Vet checked vision and no issue.

Then when my beloved dog was dying, a friend of my mother’s brought in her “healer” woman completely unsolicited. Long story short, they basically told me it was my fault he finally died because I didn’t believe in the healer. Nothing in the world could have made me feel worse even though it’s total BS. SHe was telling me to feed the exact opposite stuff that all the DVMs at UPenn were advising. His illness was GI related so the diet was a critical piece.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8896683]
I guess I just keep waiting until someone whose judgement I trust tells me about a convincing encounter, then.

I don’t have enough hubris to suggest that we know enough about how the mind and communication works to rule out AC definitively, but I suspect I’m going to be sitting on my skeptical sideline for a long, long time.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I kind of WANT to believe it, however, I need more than anecdotal stories, I guess, of “she knew both of my horses personalities”. I am not closed to the idea, however, the scientist in me 1. needs proof 2. would a fail safe method (like the card idea).

Part of me wonders- if the power to communicate is there, the love for you animal is there- why is the animal not talking to you? Ever sat there distressed or sobbing, alone in your car wondering what to do about a beloved pet? Why are they not reaching out then? or in your dreams? or is this gift just granted to certain individuals and not the ones nearest and dearest to the pet?

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=fallenupright;8896964]
I get a rib out a couple times a year (always the same one). Its very painful I’m very glad my chiropractor can fix it in just a few minutes each time!

My horse also seems to get them out - I can tell when she gets SUPER cinchy. And I can empathize for sure, I know how sore it can be![/QUOTE]

Pain from a muscle spasm or intercostal cartilage tear is a “thing.” “Rib out” is not, at least biologically speaking. Ask your vet / MD if you don’t believe me.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=2horseygirls;8897083]
I don’t disagree with you here, and also agree that it should, under no circumstances, replace practical veterinary advice. But there are some things that just cannot be explained by science, and there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the experience.

I’ve learned a huge amount from COTH members, crazy or not. Just because someone believes something other than what you do does not necessarily mean they are crazy, or one is right and the other has to be wrong - it means your belief systems are incompatible, and you will most likely never agree. There is still something to be learned, even if it is what not to do.

An incredibly well-regarded horseman advised attendees at a state horse fair to apply used diesel oil :eek::eek::eek: to horses’ feathers to cure scratches. :eek::eek::eek: Mr. 2HG was poised to restrain me physically from leaping from my seat screeching; I settled for having a discreet word with the president of the state equine organization about the validity of information presented by ‘expert’ speakers.

I do enjoy Dr. Ramey’s perspective on many topics, but it is tempered with the knowledge that his mother offers a horse training camp in Indiana with bordering-on-hoarderesque housekeeping standards, that two previous attendees still refer to as “Spider Camp” after leaving 4 days into a two-week session several years ago. As with any information from any source, I take what he says with a large grain (or two) of salt.[/QUOTE]

I strongly suspect Dr. Ramey, who lives on the West Coast, is not in control of what his elderly mother may or may not be doing in Indiana–and that assumes your “two previous” camp attendees were qualified to judge.

The opinions of vets I’ve used over the years tend to align closely with what I read on his site (at least when you let them rant candidly and they aren’t trying to sell you something) so I tend to believe him over The Weird World of Woo. He at least has biological plausibility on his side.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8897519]
I agree.

I kind of WANT to believe it, however, I need more than anecdotal stories, I guess, of “she knew both of my horses personalities”. I am not closed to the idea, however, the scientist in me 1. needs proof 2. would a fail safe method (like the card idea).

Part of me wonders- if the power to communicate is there, the love for you animal is there- why is the animal not talking to you? Ever sat there distressed or sobbing, alone in your car wondering what to do about a beloved pet? Why are they not reaching out then? or in your dreams? or is this gift just granted to certain individuals and not the ones nearest and dearest to the pet?[/QUOTE]

I think they are talking, but its hard to read it. I don’t know why I sometimes get this, and other times not.

The soul connection is real though, and we all feel that.

If you want more stories, PM me. I have a lot.

Also if you are TOO CLOSE you can’t hear them. Its like someone noticing something in your kid- you are often clouded by your own habits, relationship, emotions. That is why there needs to be professionals.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8897647]
Pain from a muscle spasm or intercostal cartilage tear is a “thing.” “Rib out” is not, at least biologically speaking. Ask your vet / MD if you don’t believe me.[/QUOTE]

what? of course ribs can be “out”. there is a place a piece of anatomy should be, if its not there it’s “out”.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8897660]
what? of course ribs can be “out”. there is a place a piece of anatomy should be, if its not there it’s “out”.[/QUOTE]

If there’s a place anatomy should be, if it’s not there where is it? What’s happened? Is it fractured, dislocated, shattered by a bullet? What was the precipitating event?

If you wake up with a stitch in your ribs or a cramp in your back, nothing is dislocated or fractured; you have a muscle spasm or, in many cases, idiopathic pain IOW really no pathology. Lots of times pain is NOT caused by any anatomically detectable pathology, and this is the intellectual “dark matter” zone that Woo exploits with their fanciful “diagnoses.”

In human medicine RCT’s have not only found back-cracks etc. have no clinical effect beyond the placebo effect of a treatment act of any generic sort taking place, but that no 2 chiros can ever even agree on what’s “out” (subluxation) let alone what they want to do about it! Biological plausibility that these treatments are “necessary” is nonexistent, which is why I don’t pay for them for myself or horses either. They are based on a belief system only.

A joint, a rib, a vertebra is either dislocated or it is not–and it usually isn’t hard to tell if it IS, because it’s owner is on the ground and usually screaming for 911. :eek: Whole order of magnitude different than having a “hitch in your gitalong” that would get better by itself without magical “treatment.”
Don’t even get me started on the ones who Dx “ulcers” every time a horse laces his ears when you poke him between the front legs with a pencil! That level of “woo” is the stuff of old-timey “medicine shows.” Mind you, I fully understand desperate people’s NEED to believe and to clutch at straws. I just hate that people are ripping them off and exploiting medical ignorance.

Further to equine “chiro,” ever watch a butcher break down a side of beef? This requires tremendous strength, training, and focus in addition to extremely sharp knives, sometimes backed up with a mallet. Those structures are BIG, tendons and ligaments holding things together are the size and strength of towing straps or wire rope! Those structures are held extremely stable by some very powerful equipment. Now when I see some 90-lb. woman balancing 3’ off the ground on an unstable styrofoam block, convincing the horse owner she’s going to “move” and alter structures that my 6’3" burly-dude butcher can barely alter even with a razor-sharp cleaver, kind of makes you think a bit about that whole “biological plausibility” thing.

“Believe it if you need it, if you don’t just pass it on.”

                                                     [I] --Robert Hunter[/I]

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8897655]
I think they are talking, but its hard to read it. I don’t know why I sometimes get this, and other times not.

The soul connection is real though, and we all feel that.

If you want more stories, PM me. I have a lot.

Also if you are TOO CLOSE you can’t hear them. Its like someone noticing something in your kid- you are often clouded by your own habits, relationship, emotions. That is why there needs to be professionals.[/QUOTE]

So not to sound holier-than-thou, I honestly feel like I have had a deeper than normal connection with my animals. I don’t know if I attribute it to the Native American heritage or just a deeper connection.

Honestly- thinking about my old JRT or my recently deceased GSD, I can’t imagine them communicating with a stranger- sound weird (I guess no more odd than this conversation )

I like the soul connection statement. It reminds me of this time last year when I was alone in the hospital with my dying father who just wouldn’t let go. It was just me, I told him that Woody (my horse who had recently died that my dad had saved 2ce by paying for surgery) and Diesel (my GSD who we swear was human) were waiting for him and it was OK to go, I was going to step outside. i stepped out, Nurse walked in and said - he is dead, had just passed. .

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8896667]
They “tune in” to only one animal. They ask permission to enter that animals world of communication. They don’t willy nilly listen to animal conversations. Disbelieve if you want, those of us that have had positive experiences have the right to our feelings and thoughts.

How do you know this? “Is there a Statement of Ethics for ACs”? If there is who enforces it? Senden Horse admits there’s all kinds of folks who claim the ability but don’t have it. What about them? Are there unethical ACs who DO “eavesdrop” on conversations without permission? What happens if an ethical AC finds them out? Or are ACs, as a class, such moral and ethical folks that they never, under any circumstances, stray from the straight and narrow?

And to the poster that gave the belly laugh over a rib out - I was not able to sleep or relax once because as soon as I stopped moving I would have an aching pain in my side. Went to the doctor and he couldn’t find anything, set me up for some tests, but in the meantime I stopped at the vets to get something (don’t remember what) and she saw I was miserable. I told her what I felt and she took her hand and slowly moved it in front of my chest/stomach area. Then she said you’ve got a rib out. About 6 seconds of her pressing two fingers on a rib and I was fixed. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Just because people have different experiences than you doesn’t mean you get to discount them.[/QUOTE]

Any time a person puts a thought into the public domain every member of the public gets to judge the thought, comment on the thought, their judgement of the thought, and have their judgement, itself, become a subject of discussion.

G.