[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893555]
Has Elvis called home yet? Jim Morrison? How 'bout ET? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
sure, have fun and laugh at me. I don’t care, I consider this a gift to help the horses when they are suffering, and it has encouraged me spiritually as a christian.
Ever heard of MYSTICS? yeah, the same thing.
It’s ok to not believe but it is not ok to be as asshole to me. you might get banned again, be careful. No Im not going to report you, I don’t care that much.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893578]
AC and “a rib out” in the same POST?! ROFLMAO, you win the Internetz for today!! For a trifecta, add “ulcers!” :lol:
Ahem. Will stop trolling. Really. But seriously folks, 20 years ago NONE of these fads had happened yet–and horses did JUST FINE without AC’s and the other charlatans of Woo. Did see a quack named Tony Gonzales lame a few thousand by shimming up alternate feet unevenly with multi-sized degree pads, but that passed quickly . . .
I think what you’ve got today is a lot of people who come to horses in mid-life, didn’t grow up as barn kids, and didn’t have the fortunate privilege of an old-time horseman or woman who REALLY KNEW HORSES as mentor. Those of us whose education was imparted by old folks who learned when the horse was still a “using” animal as opposed to a recreational pet seldom seem to bother with anybody but a DVM–probably because we “get” the important basics of horse management that were once the domain of professional dealers, trainers, and grooms.
Put your money into doing the basics well, and you can wash popcorn down with your wine watching the silly ways other people spend their money. ;)[/QUOTE]
you sounds very ignorant, so perhaps speak to people who have used ACs or are. Oh wait, you did and you are not open to learning. As I said, I have a greaduate degree and I"M A CAREER SCIENTIST, and I (and most people) never ever ever put this stuff in the place of the vet. I said that already. there are times when it complements that knowledge.
If you had any knowledge you would see its not given the same way a diagnosis is made. The specific rib out is not typically how I get info. Its not always that clear- it will be a picture or impression of an area of the body, its not that the horse said “I have cushings and I need thyroid”.
Yes, it takes some WORK to decipher the messages at times. the fact you don’t know that shows you have no idea of reality.
That is ok, but sounding like you do makes you seem ignorant. which you are,
In fact, the more closely a person talks like a vet, the more you wonder. If they are too “perfect” in the reading my BS meter goes off.
Also, the best bet for the person getting the reading is to shut up and listen, let them speak then think about it. Often the messages go in different directions. NOT HOW HUMANS talk. If you pay attention, you might just learn something new. And that, is the POINT.
The animal communicators who do so over the phone aren’t too swift. One I know in NY missed the fact that the horse’s owner, in NYC, did not know her horse had been neglected in VA first at a retirement farm, and later when moved, was neglected in another state where she was supposed to be well cared for. Former big time show mare died while her owner paid money to people who cheated on feed and care… Animal communicator took the owner’s money and did a cell phone interview with the last boarding barn.
I don’t know about those who do so in person. I know one woman who now lives in Montana who when she lived in my area supposedly could communicate with animals and learn what was wrong with them. I prefer my very great vet for that. I prefer my self for daily observation of my horses. They pretty much show me how they feel by their behavior towards me and towards other horses. No interpretation needed.
[QUOTE=invinoveritas;8894063]
The animal communicators who do so over the phone aren’t too swift. One I know in NY missed the fact that the horse’s owner, in NYC, did not know her horse had been neglected in VA first at a retirement farm, and later when moved, was neglected in another state where she was supposed to be well cared for. Former big time show mare died while her owner paid money to people who cheated on feed and care… Animal communicator took the owner’s money and did a cell phone interview with the last boarding barn.
I don’t know about those who do so in person. I know one woman who now lives in Montana who when she lived in my area supposedly could communicate with animals and learn what was wrong with them. I prefer my very great vet for that. I prefer my self for daily observation of my horses. They pretty much show me how they feel by their behavior towards me and towards other horses. No interpretation needed.[/QUOTE]
this is where there should not be dependence on the AC for VET NEEDS, as I said.
Also, as I also said readings don’t take a prescribed course, but if asked the AC should have been able to pick that up.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8893578]
But seriously folks, 20 years ago NONE of these fads had happened yet–and horses did JUST FINE without AC’s and the other charlatans of Woo.
I think what you’ve got today is a lot of people who come to horses in mid-life, didn’t grow up as barn kids, and didn’t have the fortunate privilege of an old-time horseman or woman who REALLY KNEW HORSES as mentor. Those of us whose education was imparted by old folks who learned when the horse was still a “using” animal as opposed to a recreational pet seldom seem to bother with anybody but a DVM–probably because we “get” the important basics of horse management that were once the domain of professional dealers, trainers, and grooms.
Put your money into doing the basics well, and you can wash popcorn down with your wine watching the silly ways other people spend their money. ;)[/QUOTE]
Fortunately for the spoiled pet horses of today in the last twenty years there have been huge advances in scientific knowledge of the horse and the diseases that beset them. Heck, there have been some pretty huge advances in the last ten years that can make afflicted horses’ lives better IF the horse’s owner can find a BO who has a mind open to learning.
Of course that means that responsible horse owners will avoid those “old timers” who won’t believe these “new fangled” diseases exist, which leaves the old timers to continue to ignore those new findings because they’ve “never had a horse that didn’t thrive on their barebones, basic care.”
I have a horse with EPSM. The old timers’ basic, time tested care would not kill him, but at best he would be horribly uncomfortable and more likely completely incapable of being a “useful animal” in any capacity. Some of my questions to a potential BO are specifically targeted to find out if the BO is open minded or unwilling to accommodate my horse’s needs.
I have another horse that would either be unrideable, or a shutdown miserable beast under saddle had I not had a chiropractor adjust him regularly when he was being started under saddle. I have video of him lame under a rider pre adjustment and sound under a rider post adjustment - but that MUST be coincidence despite happening multiple times… :rolleyes: It passed the conspiracy stage years ago.
Advances in the simplest areas of horse care are a hard sell to these “old timers.” Look at how many still cling to the rotational deworming at set intervals method. Sure it worked in the past, but in the past worms didn’t have decades of drug exposure increasing their resistance. We don’t live in the past, we live in the now. And it’s the facts of the now we have to deal with when looking after our horses. The “old timers” aren’t going away, but increasingly owners of horses with health issues are specifically seeking out places that will accommodate their horse’s needs. And the number of BOs and barns that are making simple changes in the basics of care that will keep the horses healthier is also increasing.
Not all service providers are equally competent, but even those “old timers” would never dismiss all veterinarians or farriers just because they had one bad one.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8893815]
There are a bunch of threads at the bottom of the page under “similar threads” that you might want to check out. One even had 164 replies.[/QUOTE]
When I looked, it missed this one, which has 466 replies and a link to research.
I don’t have time for digging but recent physics and study of matter are supportive of mind/body connection, energy work, intuition, and qi gong.
Its fascinating!
A good scientist is very open to mystery, creativity, and new ideas. Those who are inflexible don’t last and don’t know how to follow what the data is telling you.
Mainstream? Depends on who you ask.
Intuition pre dates the wild west. So maybe we can call it the original old timer wisdom… Lol
[QUOTE=2horseygirls;8893286]
Rather judgmental of people who are responsible enough to have jobs to support the animals they cruelly board, crate, etc. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Not judgmental at all. I boarded for many years before marrying and keeping them at home. I was fortunate to have a job that enabled me to spend a lot of hours at the stable ( 6 days a week) so I knew my horses and their eating habits. I have always been the only one to ride my horses so I know what is normal for them too.
A lot of owners have no clue what is normal behavior for their horse on a daily basis. They ride, but most everything else is taken care of by barn staff. When you do it yourself there is a huge difference.
I do find the use of crates cruel. Sorry. Never said boarding was cruel though…
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8893270]
sure, they are both communication, but not the same at all.[/QUOTE]
How about an example.
One told me recently, that my very lazy horse that I’ve owned all of his 8 years wants a job. My daughter said, “yeah, as a food critic.”
[QUOTE=Faith;8894567]
One told me recently, that my very lazy horse that I’ve owned all of his 8 years wants a job. My daughter said, “yeah, as a food critic.”[/QUOTE]
:lol:
[QUOTE=candyappy;8894563]
How about an example.[/QUOTE]
I already gave them. Its not just what is communicated but how. Its a soul to soul reading.
I can describe that when I get something it’s a sudden phrase or word. there is nothing leading up to it and no emotion attached form ME-
I knew a friend’s horse was very sick one time, I didn’t know what but it was an insistent feeling-- an anxiety that was specific to this event. Urgency. Not anxiety like normal human anxiety.
I wasn’t with the horse.
Another time was I felt a construction from the neck- turns out later the blanket was too tight on my horse. I knew that there was a restriction but not why. I wasn’t with the horse then either.
So a few examples. I’m not a professional, I get what I get and I can’t always place it.
[QUOTE=candyappy;8894556]
Not judgmental at all. I boarded for many years before marrying and keeping them at home. I was fortunate to have a job that enabled me to spend a lot of hours at the stable ( 6 days a week) so I knew my horses and their eating habits. I have always been the only one to ride my horses so I know what is normal for them too.
A lot of owners have no clue what is normal behavior for their horse on a daily basis. They ride, but most everything else is taken care of by barn staff. When you do it yourself there is a huge difference.
I do find the use of crates cruel. Sorry. Never said boarding was cruel though…[/QUOTE]
This^ nailed it. When you do it yourself, there IS a huge difference. Belief systems are a matter of faith, animal husbandry is hopefully a matter of best-practice evidence. People will do what they want with their own money.
COTH used to be one of the best places online for horsemen to come together and exchange useful information; it’s a measure of how thoroughly it’s now jumped the shark that one can LOSE a debate arguing from a common sense perspective about phone-telepath AC’s and made-up “ailments.” Nobody left here but the Crazy Horse Ladeez!
TO THE LURKERS: PLEASE read the article at the following link, by one of California’s foremost practicing veterinarians. He states the case persuasively that the proliferation of “services” peer pressure is elevating to “needs” among some horse owners are needlessly compounding the worry, expense, and complications of ownership to the point where people hesitate to get into horses. The truth remains that almost all are completely unnecessary.
I find his point of view persuasive; very worth your time to read:
[QUOTE=candyappy;8894556]
Not judgmental at all. I boarded for many years before marrying and keeping them at home. I was fortunate to have a job that enabled me to spend a lot of hours at the stable ( 6 days a week) so I knew my horses and their eating habits. I have always been the only one to ride my horses so I know what is normal for them too.
A lot of owners have no clue what is normal behavior for their horse on a daily basis. They ride, but most everything else is taken care of by barn staff. When you do it yourself there is a huge difference.
I do find the use of crates cruel. Sorry. Never said boarding was cruel though…[/QUOTE]
This^ nailed it. When you do it yourself, there IS a huge difference. Belief systems are a matter of faith, animal husbandry is hopefully a matter of best-practice evidence. People will do what they want with their own money, and believers gonna believe even in faeries and zombies, I guess.
COTH used to be one of the best places online for horsemen to come together and exchange useful information; it’s a measure of how thoroughly it’s now jumped the shark that one can LOSE a debate arguing from a common sense perspective about phone-telepath AC’s and made-up “ailments.” Such is the state of our Brave New anti-intellectual, anti-elitist world where all ideas are given equal weight–no matter how daffy.
TO THE LURKERS: PLEASE read the articles at the following link, by one of California’s foremost practicing veterinarians. He states the case persuasively that the proliferation of “services” peer pressure is elevating to “needs” among some horse owners are needlessly compounding the worry, expense, and complications of ownership to the point where people hesitate to get into horses, or get out because they’re too much trouble. The truth remains that almost all are completely unnecessary.
I find his point of view persuasive; very well worth your time to read:
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8894071]
this is where there should not be dependence on the AC for VET NEEDS, as I said.
Also, as I also said readings don’t take a prescribed course, but if asked the AC should have been able to pick that up.[/QUOTE]
if asked the AC should have been able to pick up that the horse was dead?
if asked?!
Surely you can see why it’s hard NOT to be skeptical of AC when even proponents are saying you have to ask the most basic questions, like “is the horse still alive?” to hope to get to an honest/accurate answer.
[And please don’t lump me in the same category as LE --I have no more respect for her “the old way is better, always” mentality than I do for people who buy in to every current trend/fad. I’m skeptical, and waiting to be convinced, but it’s really sort of hard to put a lot of stock in AC if you have to ask if the animal is alive or dead, yanno?]
I went to a party with an animal communicator a few weeks ago and had her talk to my horse. She said he represents strength and protection in my life and loves me very much, which was not particularly useful. I asked her if he was sore anywhere, because he’s had on and off lameness issues for the past two years, and she said no, but he felt like he had butterflies in his stomach, which is probably legit because he spooks at life. But again, not particularly helpful when trying to pinpoint what is going on with his shoulder.
We also had an animal communicator down the street from my old barn. My barn owner complained that she didn’t hear poor old Fury the mustang calling out for help when he slipped and went down in the pasture one night, and she didn’t hear all 27 horses calling for help when the indoor collapsed under the snow load one year, so she must not have been listening too hard to the animals in the neighborhood.
I remember one of the threads on here (I think) about animal communicators had a post about chickens going off the lay because they were angry at their owner about something they’d done … can’t remember the details but it was so funny I laughed and laughed til my sides did hurt 
:lol:
I talked to an animal communicator a couple of years ago and she explained how they communicate, not so much in words but in seeing/sending images.
[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8894697]
if asked the AC should have been able to pick up that the horse was dead?
if asked?!
Surely you can see why it’s hard NOT to be skeptical of AC when even proponents are saying you have to ask the most basic questions, like “is the horse still alive?” to hope to get to an honest/accurate answer.
[And please don’t lump me in the same category as LE --I have no more respect for her “the old way is better, always” mentality than I do for people who buy in to every current trend/fad. I’m skeptical, and waiting to be convinced, but it’s really sort of hard to put a lot of stock in AC if you have to ask if the animal is alive or dead, yanno?][/QUOTE]
The horse was dead? well, for whatever reason I didn’t get that from your post. My mistake.
I can only speak of MY experiences, is this person legit? heck if I know…No, not everyone is in it for the right reasons.
The best people IMHO are more real life and have very little online presence-- they are too busy with real clients. Just like trainers. They don’t need to advertise.
My only experience with an AC was a gelding with extreme back pain. Vets weren’t able to diagnose anything and bute and robaxin didn’t help. AC said it was a kidney infection which turned out to be correct. Now I could have had that diagnosed by conventional means but my vet didn’t even know where to start once the obvious causes had been ruled out.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8895603]
The horse was dead? well, for whatever reason I didn’t get that from your post. My mistake.
I can only speak of MY experiences, is this person legit? heck if I know…No, not everyone is in it for the right reasons.
The best people IMHO are more real life and have very little online presence-- they are too busy with real clients. Just like trainers. They don’t need to advertise.[/QUOTE]
It wasn’t my post, so possible I could be misreading it, but that’s how it came across to me.
And finding a real AC is nothing like finding a trainer.
If I want to find a trainer, I ask some friends, maybe look at websites and Facebook pages, maybe check some review sites (Yelp, etc), look up show results if I’m interested in showing, and set up some appointments to go out and watch some lessons and training sessions. Before the trainer gets a penny of my money, I have seen them in action, have seen their results, and have a pretty good idea of what I am getting in to and what results I can expect.
I’m not making a decision based on word of mouth; I have first-hand experience.
If I want to find an AC, I have to go by word of mouth (assuming any of my friends have had legitimate experiences, which they have not) or by searching out for the random webpages (which is advertising, and as a sole source of information, not definitively trustworthy). The only way to tell if the AC is a real one or a fake is to pay them and find out.
And if I find a fake, the proponents say “Oh, well, of course there are fakes in the industry. That’s too bad. But some are good. You just have to find the right one. But they don’t advertise. And they are too busy working with current clients to take the concerns of skeptics seriously. They have nothing to prove. Pay them if you want to use them. Just trust us that THIS one is real and not fake like those other 1, 5, or 10 ACs you tried in the past and turned out to be fake.”
It’s really hard to reconcile “this is a legitimate thing” with “but you have to take us on faith (and pay us) to find out, and if you get a cheat, well, that’s just too bad but it happens. Just keep trying.”
I’m willing to be convinced, but–to the extent that it’s like finding a good trainer–I do expect the AC to be willing to offer up more than “trust me, I’m good” before I hand over my money. I expect that of any business.
And that never happens. Blind faith and hand over a check, or nothing’s happening.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
