Animal Communicator

[Bluey]

@Guilherme

I call anyone who takes people’s money under false pretenses a “fraud.” If they say “this is what you should do to make your horse feel better 'cause they told me so and here’s the bill” they are committing TWO frauds. First, practicing vet. medicine without a license; second, telling you something that is not true with the intent that you rely on it.

The Great Randi, for a long time, had a $1 Million prize out for the first person who could prove extra-sensory communication in a controlled situation. No one was ever able to collect.

There’s a commercial running from AT&T right now that really demonstrates this problem in a nutshell. It shows folks engaging in socially beneficial actions in disadvantaged communities. And the narrator at one point intones, “Some say seeing is believing; we say believing is seeing.” If you’re trying to buff your public reputation as a mega-corporation maybe this is OK 'cause most of us don’t believe in mega-corporation PR to start with. But to apply it to equine related issues is something else again. Indeed, under the right circumstances, the owner will not only be the victim of the fraudster if they’re following the fraudster’s advice injures the horse they might find themselves being questioned about animal neglect or cruelty.

Folks can believe what they want and pay people to do things they want them to do as long as they are not engaging in either criminal or tortuous behavior. What the believers can’t do is present anecdotes of impossible circumstances and then tell the rest of the world that they must believe 'cause the believer was there and saw it with their own eyes and no one can ever question them on what they saw.

G.

What seems clear is that animal communicators are very good at convincing animal owners.

[Tyrus_Mom]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;n10439773

Folks can believe what they want and pay people to do things they want them to do as long as they are not engaging in either criminal or tortuous behavior. What the believers can’t do is present anecdotes of impossible circumstances and then tell the rest of the world that
they must believe 'cause the believer was there and saw it with their own eyes and no one can ever question them on what they saw.

G.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Still labeling people telling antedotal stories of things that happened to them “believers” is as demeaning as my calling you a “flat earther.” You get it? I have felt insulted by people like you at every turn here, the science only crowd, and I am hitting back a bit because it’s not being a believer so much as having an open mind to something that you don’t understand but feel that I do. I have even from time to time gotten bits of communication from my dogs that had nothing to do with body language.

There are a lot of things people do not understand. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Just like microbes and germs, things that eventually are discovered or uncovered with other methods of evaluation. Enough said.

I would love to tell other stories of my experiences, because I find this a fascinating subject and I’ve had many experiences through the years that I can’t put to anything but what I think it is, animals communicating. But listening to some of these posts is very discouraging. So many close minded people here makes me sad. This is a subject that can bring so much help to animals if accessed in the right hands. Especially when people are attempting to diagnose health issues. Communicators tie in with their subjects bodies and can at times figure out what the obscure health issues are when vets can’t.

[Beck]

@Tyrus' Mom

I would love to tell other stories of my experiences, because I find this a fascinating subject and I’ve had many experiences through the years that I can’t put to anything but what I think it is, animals communicating. But listening to some of these posts is very discouraging. So many close minded people here makes me sad. This is a subject that can bring so much help to animals if accessed in the right hands. Especially when people are attempting to diagnose health issues. Communicators tie in with their subjects bodies and can at times figure out what the obscure health issues are when vets can’t.

You definitely believe. How is that demeaning?

[Tyrus_Mom]

@Beck

You definitely believe. How is that demeaning?

It sounds like a religious fanatic. It’s not just believing, it’s seeing and feeling and knowing it’s what’s happening is an animal communicating. It’s not that we are victims of hoaxters or people who know how to ask questions and push buttons… that is demeaning to assume that. It really is.

[pony_baloney]

I also took a class on how to do this. We were asked to bring a photo of an animal with three questions written on it, questions that we would know the answers to. Then our photos were passed around randomly and you were to try to receive the answers from the photo you were given, using the methods taught earlier (quieting the mind, etc.) Each and every one of us were able to do this, all the while doubting that we were correct; answers were verified by the animals’ owners.

One question I was asked was what the dog’s best friend looked like. I saw a white dog with spots, but not a dalmation. His friend was an English Setter. For another photo the question was describe the dog’s favorite game. I saw it running down a hallway in a house, fetching a ball over and over again. This was also correct.

I don’t care if people think it’s a scam. It’s a shame some are close minded enough to not take advantage of someone’s skill to find out what your animal is thinking and feeling, his likes and dislikes, and opinions on things. It’s been helpful to me many times over the years for serious as well as frivolous things.

[Bluey]

@pony baloney

I also took a class on how to do this. We were asked to bring a photo of an animal with three questions written on it, questions that we would know the answers to. Then our photos were passed around randomly and you were to try to receive the answers from the photo you were given, using the methods taught earlier (quieting the mind, etc.) Each and every one of us were able to do this, all the while doubting that we were correct; answers were verified by the animals’ owners.

One question I was asked was what the dog’s best friend looked like. I saw a white dog with spots, but not a dalmation. His friend was an English Setter. For another photo the question was describe the dog’s favorite game. I saw it running down a hallway in a house, fetching a ball over and over again. This was also correct.

I don’t care if people think it’s a scam. It’s a shame some are close minded enough to not take advantage of someone’s skill to find out what your animal is thinking and feeling, his likes and dislikes, and opinions on things. It’s been helpful to me many times over the years for serious as well as frivolous things.

Remember, topics like this one and some others work both ways.

Those that have questions are not “close minded” because they question what is not real as represented, already explained why.

Those that believe have their own way of seeing things and should not resent that not everyone else agrees with their strongly held faith in what to many is questionable.

One of those times it would seem best to agree to disagree, agreeably.

[Tyrus_Mom]

Here, I can tell another AC story. This happened a few years ago. I found a Rottie on rescueme.org who a rescue organization said had been placed in the pound twice within a year. Facts: What the rescue knew was that the breeder brought this girl into the pound and recommended euth. The pound tested her and deemed her worthy of adoption. She was adopted out and the people who adopted her brought her back to the pound and recommended euth. I saw her ad, thought she was beautiful and felt sorry for her. The rescue said she needed people with Rottie experience, which we have in spades.

I called Bea and asked her for her opinion of the dog (Fiona). Bea thought she had a good mind and she thought she would get along with our Chihuahua. She told me the breeder kept her in a kennel with several other Rotties in close quarters and Fiona felt that she had to fight for whatever she got, food, attention, toys, whatever with the dogs she was kenneled with.

We went to see her, no mean feat, considering she was in Northern Cali and I’m in Southern, a 4 hour drive. I fell in love with her. She was a feisty little girl, not inclined to make friends, very proud and kicking, trying to show us she was no pushover. I fed her a bag of cookies and was careful not to get nipped by her, because she wasn’t particularly interested in being pet. We made arrangements to pick her up in a month because I had some out of town conventions and I didn’t want to leave her unattended at home while we were gone.

A month later we rolled up in a rental van, with my husband driving so I could sit in the back with her to try to get to know her on the 4 hour drive home. Before we left I did try to pet her and she nipped my finger, where I needed a bandage. I wrapped it in my shirt trying to hide it, I really wanted this dog. The people at the rescue told me, “Don’t make a move to pet her. If she puts her head in your hands, then you can pet her.” Nope… that didn’t work. She would put her head in my hands and I tried to pet her and she would nip. We had to stop at a Target on the way home for band-aides and Neosporin. Half my fingers were wrapped in band-aides before long and I had resorted to leaving her alone, with my hands on the back of the seat as far from her as I could get them.

Well, finally, nearly 3 hours into the 4 hour drive I finally got the bright idea to call Bea, the animal communicator. Bea said to me: “That’s weird, I didn’t get that from her. You’re going to have to muzzle her and then pet her, get her used being touched by you.” What she said to Fiona: I have no idea…(probably what heck are you doing with your new mom) — but as soon as I got off the phone with Bea, Fiona threw herself on my lap and gave me a million chin kisses and then proceeded to throw herself at the windows every time we went by a semi on the freeway to show us what a good guard dog she was. After that I could pet her just fine.

Riddle me that batman.

OK - thinking about it later, I sort of figured out some of poor Fiona’s rationale. She knew every time she got in a car she either went to a good place where she was taken care of, or the pound. She went from the kennel to the pound. From the pound to a home. From a home to the pound. From the pound to the rescue and the next scenario that would come with a car ride would probably logically be back to the pound. So for all she knew she was being taken by us back to the pound, not to a home. I guess Bea clued her in. I have no other explanation to offer.

And she was a handful when she first came into our household. She was good with the Chihuahua, but with the big dogs she got into dominance problems and fights for a while. She’s been a scrappy one who took about 6-8 months to settle down. Very dominant little girl. I very well could believe that she came from the scenario that Bea described to me.

I love her. She was worth the risks and difficulties. Her story is pretty unique.

[x-halt-salute]

An animal communicator was hired to speak to my horse shortly before horse was given to me. I was there to witness it.

She had some entertaining (as in laughable to those who knew the horse well) insights to share. And as I recall, the horse was reported to have complained of pain in some internal organ (kidney I think?) that just happened to be the thing treated by an herbal supplement sold by the communicator. What a lucky coincidence, eh?

Prior owner had blooodwork done; no evidence for the ostensible organ dysfunction. Ultimately, vetting found the source of the NQR issue – in horse’s neck, not kidneys.

I’d like to believe there’s some supernatural channel that would ease communication with animals – that would come in handy. But the only evidence available to me suggests it ain’t so.

[Tyrus_Mom]

@x-halt-salute

An animal communicator was hired to speak to my horse shortly before horse was given to me. I was there to witness it.

She had some entertaining (as in laughable to those who knew the horse well) insights to share. And as I recall, the horse was reported to have complained of pain in some internal organ (kidney I think?) that just happened to be the thing treated by an herbal supplement sold by the communicator. What a lucky coincidence, eh?

Prior owner had bloodwork done; no evidence for the ostensible organ dysfunction. Ultimately, vetting found the source of the NQR issue – in horse’s neck, not kidneys.

I’d like to believe there’s some supernatural channel that would ease communication with animals – that would come in handy. But the only evidence available to me suggests it ain’t so.

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes it hard for people who are real communicators and people who have had real experiences with true communicators to be taken seriously. You had an experience with a scam artist, not a real communicator. This is like comparing buying medicine from a guy selling homemade remedies from the trunk of his car to a doctor prescribing meds. I feel it’s disappointing that you and others who have been scammed continue to allude that these are authentic communicators when clearly that’s not the case.

[x-halt-salute]

@Tyrus' Mom

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes it hard for people who are real communicators and people who have had real experiences with true communicators to be taken seriously. You had an experience with a scam artist, not a real communicator. This is like comparing buying medicine from a guy selling homemade remedies from the trunk of his car to a doctor prescribing meds. I feel it’s disappointing that you and others who have been scammed continue to allude that these are authentic communicators when clearly that’s not the case.

I’m disappointing you because I have no evidence by which to distinguish “real” communicators from “scam artist” communicators, and shared my only encounter with that profession? How could I possibly understand the distinction you are trying to make, let alone use it as a disclaimer on my post, when I’ve had no experience with anything that suggests that human communication with animals can go beyond interpretation of body language, behavior, vocalizations, and facial expressions?

My doctor tends to be able to tell me in great detail about the empirical evidence for the efficacy of the meds she prescribes, which is how I can tell she’s not just some guy selling bs home remedies. Can you clue me in w.r.t. how to evaluate the credibility of someone who has their shingle out as an animal communicator?

Thankfully, I can report that I was merely the witness to a scam, not the victim of a scam. However, the person who paid for the service was not at all dissatisfied with the communication, and I doubt they’d accept being characterized as scam victim in this case. I might see a communicator batting 0.500 with a few big swing-and-a-miss moments and a few vague or unverifiable offerings as a fraud, but toss in a little confirmation bias and a little more interest in paranormal phenomena, and you’ve got a few hits on your scorecard and a satisfied customer from the same experience.

[Kemosabe]

Of course there are scammers. There are scammers in virtually every profession, and means of livelihood. There are animal communicators who are not good at what they do, just as there are some lawyers, doctors, accountants, teachers, contractors, small business owners, farmers, horse trainers who are not good at what they do.

Does one charlatan lawyer mean that all lawyers are charlatans, or one less competent horse trainer mean all horse trainers are incompetent?..of course not.

Some people have greater intuitive gifts than others do. And just as importantly, they have learned to trust their intuition.

My grandmother taught me how to listen to the trees and plants in a respectful way, how to ask for permission from the flower before taking the bud, how to express gratitude to the tree for the apple I plucked. Animal communication is no different…always its that we in this culture see ourselves as outside the natural world that keeps us from listening to it.

[Beck]

@Tyrus' Mom

It sounds like a religious fanatic. It’s not just believing, it’s seeing and feeling and knowing it’s what’s happening is an animal communicating. It’s not that we are victims of hoaxters or people who know how to ask questions and push buttons… that is demeaning to assume that. It really is.

Sounds like faith.

[Beck]

Intuition is not ESP.

[Guilherme]

So we have arrived at the consensus that we no longer believe that “seeing is believing.” We have concluded that “believing is seeing.”

The folks at AT&T would be proud of the impact their advertising has made.

G.

[Bluey]

Have fun with this:

derren_brown_mentalism_mind_reading_and_the_art_of _getting_inside_your_head

Now, decades ago, my little brother was interested in magic and for some time was part of a magician’s club, bought props and participated in magic shows.

They could do just as that fellow does and it “seemed” like mind reading, but there were tricks behind that.
Part of that world of magic was to swear in your blood that you would not disclose tricks, so I never did learn how he was doing it, but I guarantee you they were not reading any minds.

I have a friend that for decades now has been telling me to “quit reading people’s minds, don’t answer them before they have spoken their question, it bothers people, how do you do that?”

Well, we have a subconscious that is very active working all the time and helps us come to our conclusions our conscious mind presents to us, is how all of us think.
That subconscious works with what all it knows that we have learned and our senses presents to us and how it can “connect the dots” with that information.

There are studies that show that, before we start of thinking to move an arm to greet someone, our brain has already decided to do that, but we are not aware of wanting to do that until a bit later and that is when we think we made that decision, unaware of all that went into it and that we had already decided before we think we are doing so.

In a way, we are thinking by reading our minds, after the fact of thinking and making decisions.
I think that, being hard of hearing, I learned to “listen” to more than most do to my own and other’s subconscious as our bodies give away, seemingly at times to be reading minds.
Anyone has moments where that happens to them, when very calm or very excited some of those, we are more alert and receptive as when our brains are cruising on half idle, not paying much attention, or all sorts of other intrusive thoughts we are contemplating obscure our focus.

I think that communicators, mentalists, fortune readers, any that seem to know what they can’t know are just better at guessing what our subconscious is thinking and working with that information, refining their guesses as they go along.

That at least makes more sense than inventing some kind of communication in the real world we live in that no one can detect or reproduce reliably, or it would now be part of our real knowledge, which is not, because, well, it seems that all that is in our heads only.

[LaurieB]

When I don’t agree with the topic of a thread, I usually just avoid it.

Yet every time animal communicators are brought up, there are two posters who feel obliged to bombard the thread with posts repeating over and over that they don’t believe in the premise. In this thread, they have more posts apiece than people who have come here merely to try and share their stories.

Okay guys, we get it. You’re willing to post all day and night if that’s what it takes to debunk each new post with your same, oft-repeated argument.

It’s not that we didn’t read your stuff the first time–or the tenth. It’s that the rest of us are trying to enjoy this topic anyway. Is that too much to ask?

[Bluey]

@LaurieB

When I don’t agree with the topic of a thread, I usually just avoid it.

Yet every time animal communicators are brought up, there are two posters who feel obliged to bombard the thread with posts repeating over and over that they don’t believe in the premise. In this thread, they have more posts apiece than people who have come here merely to try and share their stories.

Okay guys, we get it. You’re willing to post all day and night if that’s what it takes to debunk each new post with your same, oft-repeated argument.

It’s not that we didn’t read your stuff the first time–or the tenth. It’s that the rest of us are trying to enjoy this topic anyway. Is that too much to ask?

No one is keeping anyone from posting to their heart’s content, why start now?

Want to tell your stories, talk about your beliefs, why not?
Some may agree with you, others may post they find some stories hard to believe.

Is what threads and their discussions are supposed to be all about, not restricted to only one side of topics.

[Jackie_Cochran]

There is also the “mirror neuron” phenomenon to consider.

Ever since I was 14 and first read “Common Sense Horsemanship” by Vladimir Littauer, I have taken his first chapter, “Imagine You Are a Horse” seriously. Through the decades when I run into problems with a horse I try in my imagination to come up with some reason why the horse acts the way it does.

Could it be that when I am imagining I am the horse I am handling or riding, that the mirror neuron phenomenon works better? Could I be more sensitive to the information the horse is trying to tell me?

I can fully accept that the information I get from imagining I am a horse in combination with the mirror neuron phenomenon is my subconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind what it picks up from the horse.

That is not woo-woo.

However, very rarely, I get word messages from the horse into my mind. Among these short sentences I’ve gotten from horses is “I know something you don’t know” (from my first horse Hat Tricks) to a horse I used to ride many years ago, the Arabian gelding Glow. When I first met Glow Debbie was going through all the problems her lesson riders had with him, and Glow looked me in the eye and I heard in my mind “you don’t hurt me and I’ll be good.” He kept his word. The second or third time I rode him Debbie wanted me to go with her as she introduced a green TB to trail riding. I was sort of nervous riding Glow outside the ring, but he looked at me again and said “don’t worry, I’ll take care of you”, and again he kept his promise.

I have also gotten the comment from a few horses of “what good are you anyway” when I disappoint them.

That is it. It happened. It does not happen regularly (many horses do not seem to want to “talk” in words), and I never expect it to happen.

I tried to communicate with a horse with just my mind and guess what, it did not work at all. I tried with words and I tried with mental pictures and I got absolutely no reaction from the horse.

Except for those brief sentences, all the communication I get from horses has been from how they hold their bodies, the tension or lack of tension in muscles, and how they react to my aids. I get the communications from the horse through my body or my eyes, absolutely no woo-woo involved.

I listen to the horses I ride. They appreciate me listening to them. They are also perfectly prepared to “cuss me out” if I do not interpret these physical sensations correctly, through the ancient methods of head slinging, refusing to relax their lower jaw, gaping their mouth, twitching their tail or kicking at my leg along with dirty looks when they see me.

I find horse quite eloquent in their physical language.

[Bluey]

@Jackie Cochran

There is also the “mirror neuron” phenomenon to consider.

Ever since I was 14 and first read “Common Sense Horsemanship” by Vladimir Littauer, I have taken his first chapter, “Imagine You Are a Horse” seriously. Through the decades when I run into problems with a horse I try in my imagination to come up with some reason why the horse acts the way it does.

Could it be that when I am imagining I am the horse I am handling or riding, that the mirror neuron phenomenon works better? Could I be more sensitive to the information the horse is trying to tell me?

I can fully accept that the information I get from imagining I am a horse in combination with the mirror neuron phenomenon is my subconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind what it picks up from the horse.

That is not woo-woo.

However, very rarely, I get word messages from the horse into my mind. Among these short sentences I’ve gotten from horses is “I know something you don’t know” (from my first horse Hat Tricks) to a horse I used to ride many years ago, the Arabian gelding Glow. When I first met Glow Debbie was going through all the problems her lesson riders had with him, and Glow looked me in the eye and I heard in my mind “you don’t hurt me and I’ll be good.” He kept his word. The second or third time I rode him Debbie wanted me to go with her as she introduced a green TB to trail riding. I was sort of nervous riding Glow outside the ring, but he looked at me again and said “don’t worry, I’ll take care of you”, and again he kept his promise.

I have also gotten the comment from a few horses of “what good are you anyway” when I disappoint them.

That is it. It happened. It does not happen regularly (many horses do not seem to want to “talk” in words), and I never expect it to happen.

I tried to communicate with a horse with just my mind and guess what, it did not work at all. I tried with words and I tried with mental pictures and I got absolutely no reaction from the horse.

Except for those brief sentences, all the communication I get from horses has been from how they hold their bodies, the tension or lack of tension in muscles, and how they react to my aids. I get the communications from the horse through my body or my eyes, absolutely no woo-woo involved.

I listen to the horses I ride. They appreciate me listening to them. They are also perfectly prepared to “cuss me out” if I do not interpret these physical sensations correctly, through the ancient methods of head slinging, refusing to relax their lower jaw, gaping their mouth, twitching their tail or kicking at my leg along with dirty looks when they see me.

I find horse quite eloquent in their physical language.

You are right, horses, dogs, cats, cattle, humans also, we are all a billboard continuously speaking to all around us.
With horses, they eyeball us, see, hear, smell us and immediately know what we are all about and what else is going on with us.
We can understand them at that level and they look away and relax, we are both on the same page.
Or we can try to think thru what we are seeing and observing and then we miss soo, soo much horses are when focusing only on this or that part of the whole.
The first clue to me that animal communicators are not really with the horse is the right down silly things they say horses are telling them.
If you really know horses, you know that doesn’t make sense, horses just don’t live in that world those communicators are wanting to represent when reporting what they are getting from a horse.

I see animal communication as guessing games in the human world sense, that some are better at that than others, that just wonder at how those games turn out.

Others see animal communication as a real, tangible way some bring to the table.

It is ok, different strokes and such …

[Tyrus_Mom]

@x-halt-salute

I’m disappointing you because I have no evidence by which to distinguish “real” communicators from “scam artist” communicators, and shared my only encounter with that profession? How could I possibly understand the distinction you are trying to make, let alone use it as a disclaimer on my post, when I’ve had no experience with anything that suggests that human communication with animals can go beyond interpretation of body language, behavior, vocalizations, and facial expressions?

My doctor tends to be able to tell me in great detail about the empirical evidence for the efficacy of the meds she prescribes, which is how I can tell she’s not just some guy selling bs home remedies. Can you clue me in w.r.t. how to evaluate the credibility of someone who has their shingle out as an animal communicator?

Thankfully, I can report that I was merely the witness to a scam, not the victim of a scam. However, the person who paid for the service was not at all dissatisfied with the communication, and I doubt they’d accept being characterized as scam victim in this case. I might see a communicator batting 0.500 with a few big swing-and-a-miss moments and a few vague or unverifiable offerings as a fraud, but toss in a little confirmation bias and a little more interest in paranormal phenomena, and you’ve got a few hits on your scorecard and a satisfied customer from the same experience.

The analogy was not to suggest you buy meds from a guy on the street, but not to take anyone and everyone seriously when they refer to themselves as a Dr or animal communicator. As to certifying, obviously there are no certifications or licenses. But lumping all people who call themselves something as that definition is short sighted and does little to advance understanding. Not that you obviously care, but as I do and I think alleviating suffering in animals an important enough topic that these people can assist with it’s worth fighting for in my standards. Therefore I’m soldiering on with this explanation.

When you hire a trainer, do you just go to the nearest guy with a shingle and say “train my horse?” No, you research trainers and find someone with references from people who are authentically invested in the same discipline as you.

If all you want is entertainment, it doesn’t matter, you can find a multitude of hoaxters or scam artists eager to feed you crap and entertain you. If you want to legitimately find out something valid about your pet that you can’t figure out with a trainer, veterinarian or whatever professionals you put your faith in that can’t answer the big question(s) these people who actually communicate with animals can help. Legitimate ACs can help.

Lumping shills with actual animal communicators does no one any good… That’s what is disappointing.

I love your protestation how you weren’t victimized, yet use the same evidence for victimization. Funny.