I consider whipping a horse repeatedly to be torture … but that’s just me.
I accidently caught the end of the whiplash (the end of the lash) from my own longe whip one time … and honestly it was one of the most painful things I’ve felt … it hurt a whole lot more than I ever thought it could. Hurt more than getting whacked by a recoiling bullsnap …
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;8123739]
I haven’t read all of the posts but IMO the kid who got kicked out of this place taping the abuse of the pony was done a favor. How can anyone think a barn where disgusting or completely dry water buckets/troughs is the norm a good place to board and/or take lessons from?
Hopefully current boarders and clients will read up on the investigation and leave. The bottom line is all the BO cares about and if everyone leaves she’ll have to upgrade her program.[/QUOTE]
I agree the student has been done a favor, but I just want to add, there are not a lot of other options in this area. Believe it or not, quite a few of the boarding/lesson barns around here are actually worse. The better barns are always full with a waiting list.
I moved my horses there, begrudgingly, because it was the “best” in the area that I could find at that time. I definitely had concerns going in, but the barn owner also made a lot of promises to me in the contract that gave me hope it could work out. It didn’t, and I left as soon as I could get in somewhere better.
I don’t think the BO will upgrade the standard the care only because she has just never seemed to “get it.” I used to find it a little hilarious that she would treat me like some ignorant country bumpkin because I didn’t want to compete with them. She’d tell me things like, “you wouldn’t understand because this is how they do it at the big show barns.” To which I’d point out that unlike her, I’ve actually been there and done that in the big show barns and this is not how they do it.
Posted by Texarkana:
Believe it or not, quite a few of the boarding/lesson barns around here are actually worse. The better barns are always full with a waiting list.
This is why I wish we had some sort of PROFESSIONAL certification program like they do in many European countries. It would make it so much easier to put these sorts out of business.
Then dedicated people could make a decent living doing what we need, not what they feel like doing.
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8123940]
This is why I wish we had some sort of PROFESSIONAL certification program like they do in many European countries. It would make it so much easier to put these sorts out of business.
Then dedicated people could make a decent living doing what we need, not what they feel like doing.[/QUOTE]
I wonder about this. Rollkur was brought to us by people who would have flown through a “professional” certification based upon personal accomplishment. Many highly questionable techniques come from people with lots of “letters after their names.” The most aggressive training techniques come from the client’s desire for a specified result in a very limited time. This is a market-driven process and I doubt “licensing” or “certification” would have much practical effect.
G.
I was thinking more along the lines of stable management as it’s own certification.
But … also one or two for training and teaching.
I think you will always have jerks popping up with new ideas to torment the horse (and their owners), but the one thing I see with a lot of European farrier certifications and stable management certifications and trainer certifications … is a better overall level of horsemanship.
I see many more people of all ages and backgrounds involved in riding and they have a much more basic education with horses to help keep everyone ‘out of trouble’ (accident prevention and good basic horsemanship).
Their seat is developed with a more basic approach to staying in the saddle and on top of the horse … fashion statements come further down the list.
Do you know how many people hang out their shingle and they have very little experience other than “I love horses” ? Way too many.
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8123996]
Do you know how many people hang out their shingle and they have very little experience other than “I love horses” ? Way too many.[/QUOTE]
People asked me if I would board their horses. I was 15 years old and had 1/2 acre in CA with a shelter and no practical experience, my parents had NO
experience. God help us we kept several different horses for several years and had no serious injuries amongst them while they were in our care. These were other kids asking and their clueless parents, and once I stopped keeping my horse there were no others. But until my horse was gone, basically when the neighborhood started to get developed and the riding trails paved over, I was stopped and asked regularly if there was room. I fed at my house, and kept track of water and fixed fence on our lot next door where they did self care.
It scares me to think of how much I didn’t know - G what’s that syndrome again?
Dunning–Kruger effect; not sure it’s a “syndrome.” 
The subjects of licensing and/or certification have come up several times here over the years. Farriers, trainers, instructors, boarding facilities, etc. have been discussed. There are pros and cons of any system discussed. But as licensing drivers does not prevent auto accidents neither will licensing horse trainers prevent abuse. It’s arguable that it will reduce the incidence of abuse. Just how much is open to debate. Further, the driver is pretty much by definition in the public domain. The horse trainer generally works in a private venue of some kind. None us much like traffic cops; how would we feel about “horse training cops”?
Maybe one lesson of this whole affair is that the market really might work and the folks who perpetrated the hideous “training demonstration” might just get run out of business. Or at least forced to change their program. Time will tell on that.
G.
I hope they go out of business, too, but how many people go on the internet and research boarding or training barns? Not enough, probably.
Let’s just hope someone buys the pony, at least.
This is a great plug for a website like Rate My Horse Pro.
You are right though, I’m sure most people don’t research facilities, especially if they are fairly new to having horses.
Anyway, how many surreptitious videos have we seen of clinicians doing this kind of thing, and people are still giving these charlatans money? Too many.
New horse owners are especially vulnerable to being taken in by poor management in or dodgy horse trainers in a fancy wrapper. It’s a shame, but not much that can be done that I can see. I wish people would just use common sense – if it looks nasty and like it hurts, it probably isn’t right (but then, new horse owners can’t tell what hurts and what doesn’t – mane pulling looks horrific, for instance).
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8123996]
Do you know how many people hang out their shingle and they have very little experience other than “I love horses” ? Way too many.[/QUOTE]
Probably as many people hang out signs saying music/dance/skating etc. teacher, or any other profession, and have no idea what they’re doing and taking advantage of customers’ ignorance. Voice lessons are quite popular out here in So. Cal. I’ve seen children’s voices ruined by high school by bad vocal training. Some of them will never have the career they were hoping for.
It’s hard to make a decision when you know nothing about horses/dogs/singing, whatever. You sign up your child and hope for the best. I really don’t know how it can be stopped. The people who run these programs are like used car salesmen and good at telling parents what they want to hear.
And they think they are good at what they do…
add any sports into the mix as well.
I still think we need to look at how Europe does some of this. I know there will still be bad stuff going on, but with certain types of programs in place it ups the bar for everyone and it provides an example for anyone.
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8124515]
I still think we need to look at how Europe does some of this. I know there will still be bad stuff going on, but with certain types of programs in place it ups the bar for everyone and it provides an example for anyone.[/QUOTE]
Do you run into these types of trainers much there?
[QUOTE=Malda;8124588]
Do you run into these types of trainers much there?[/QUOTE]
you always have the a-hole somewhere.
But this isn’t a proposition where you simply hang out your shingle, it is a profession with a 3 year schooling period to become a journeyman, and several more years to become a certified master.
Yes, you still can hang out your shingle, but it’s not done often.
There was a horse owner in Germany that got caught on tape whipping a horse excessively … every stride with the long whip … and I think the horse ended up injuring his leg just trying to move away from the pain … I believe they banned her from keeping horses for a certain length, maybe forever, I don’t remember.
If a certified trainer was caught doing that I believe they would lose their certification and have some other punishments involved … like no horses and maybe a fine.
They do take it seriously.
Apprenticeships … yes, like Certified and then Journeyman.
Posted by Alagirl:
But this isn’t a proposition where you simply hang out your shingle, it is a profession with a 3 year schooling period to become a journeyman, and several more years to become a certified master.
Posted by Malda:
Do you run into these types of trainers much there?
Malda, I’m US born and raised, but I’ve worked with a number of European trainers here, my Aunt was a BHSI from England, and I’ve been in on some discussions with Journeyman farriers and riders over there recently …
I also have taught here and been teaching in some big barns and seen some things that made me want to barf.
They aren’t afraid to ban people for life from owning, breeding or training horses.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8124600]
you always have the a-hole somewhere.
But this isn’t a proposition where you simply hang out your shingle, it is a profession with a 3 year schooling period to become a journeyman, and several more years to become a certified master.
Yes, you still can hang out your shingle, but it’s not done often.[/QUOTE]
This is good to hear. It’s not just passing a couple of tests and getting certified. My husband is from Austria and took lessons for a couple of years as a kid. What he remembers is pretty solid.
Unfortunately, I think the U.S. is too big to do something like that. Would have to be state wide, and I think too many people would object.
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