I am shopping for another QH (switched from h/j to western 2 years ago) and looking more for something bred to work cows. I am seeing lots of horses that are built downhill. Some are stallions that are standing at the farms where I am looking at their progeny. Do some lines go more toward this type of build? I was looking at a farm recently that has a lot of King bred horses and several of them look like they are high in the hip.
Any observations from those more familiar with QH lines?
I donât like downhill horses, and believe that a horse with a good, big, strong back end needs a complementary front end. Just because it is a stallion does not mean itâs a good example of the breed. I like them to be square and proportional.
My 14h cowhorse bred mare is about a quarter inch taller at the butt than the withers. She is better balanced by far than some heavy-on-the-forehand-but-built-uphill horses Iâve seen.
Iâve owned quarter horses since the 60s, sheâs the most downhill I have owned, but I have ridden plenty that were âbuilt downhillâ and it was not off putting at all. I guess to some extent all horses have to overcome âsomeâ conformation issue however minor, but âdownhillâ being more visible maybe makes it more talked about.
Ive been around a lot of QH & yes many lines are built down hill. Some more than others. In QH Iâve noticed that the babies to young horse age tend to keep that downhill look longer than other breeds. Most breeds outgrow that by age of two. Some of the QH will grow out of it & slowly level off by maturity - genetics pending. Seems like your studying your bloodlines & performance - which is an excellent idea.
The down hillers are just as competitive as the rest of them - competing in racing, reining, cutting, pleasure, hunter, etc. I donât see anything wrong w/it & its definitely not a handicap. I think its more of a personal preference for most people. For myself in riding english I dislike the feeling that Iâm sitting on top of withers & there is no neck in front of me. I like a lot of (upwards) neck w/ body in front of me 
(BUT)
When I did speed & action - I had uphill, level & downhill types. Funny how in western saddle downhill never bothered me @ all ?
Personal preference I quests ?
First, conformation is the way a horse is put together, but one can confirm that a horse has good conformation!. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine in horse ads!
Yes, the downhill build is prevalant in some stock horse lines, and did add sprinting power for the type of races AQHA horses became noted for
Many cutting horses are built downhill, but when a horse gets down face to face with a cow, that becomes mote!
It is a conformation flaw, and old timers talk about a saddle back horse-one built to hold a saddle all day, without needing to be cinched up tight
It is also much more difficult for a horse to move trully collected, built downhill
I like the middle of the road conformation. A horse built slightly up hill, but not with the high whither seen on many TBs, and esp with that dip in front of the withers, where the neck ties into the back
Having said that, there are many athletic horses that over come less that ideal conformation, due to heart and ability
In a perfect world, nice to have both in the same horse-correct conformation, plus mind and athletic ability
I had one App sTallion who had wonderful conformation and was very athletic, but he was never easy to ride or had a willing mind. In fact, he could be an idiot. I thus had him gelded. He was Crimson War bred on top and out of a running bred mare-Go Man GO bred.
Thus, all that great conformation proved useless , for the mind was not there.
I think you meant moot.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7913205]
I think you meant moot.:)[/QUOTE]
Thanks-you are right!
Well - doesnât ideal conformation have a lot to do with what a horse is asked to perform?
Saddlebreds with high set necks and flat backs that allow them to work âupâ in front. Uphill dressage horses that have confirmation that allows them to bring their hind end under and LIFT the front end.
A âdown hillâ conformation wouldnât be ideal for a dressage or jumping horse - as they are being asked to âsitâ on their hind ends, and LIFT the front.
But from everything I have seen on how a cutting horse works, wouldnât a downhill build be better? They are asked to crouch down and work low with the cow. I would think an âuphillâ build that we look for in english would be a detriment to a cattle horse.
After all - they are asked to get DOWN and work like THIS.
Not something that would be easy for an dressage type horse!
So while a dressage horse needs to be uphill, and horse like THIS is more ideal for that sport.
A horse that needs to get DOWN and at the cow - strong hindquarters and shoulders are important - and I would think downhill may be an assett - a horse built like THIS.
QHâs tend to have a downhill build because the âQuarterâ part of the name should be a reminder that theyâre racehorses.
In a racehorse, a slight downhill build means that theyâre less likely to âcatch airâ with their front end (which slows down their gallop). The more they convert energy into forward motion rather than upward motion (suspension), the quicker theyâre likely to be. QHâs have a reputation for having less suspension than warmbloodsâŠwonder why? Go here for the answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uQOchrK7NA
As such, âidealâ conformation depends on what youâre using them for. Barrel racing is closer to intended purpose than dressage is, so one person will answer differently than another.
Even in the race category, thereâs a reason why sprint racing QHâs are build differently than endurance racing Arabs.
So âgetting downâ with a cow really isnât benefited by being downhill. The more weight that is on the front end, the LESS agile theyâll be. Thereâs a whole combination of other traits that making cutting horses good at their jobs that have nothing to do with their degree of downhill.
Even then, how you define downhill is matter of perspective. How you define downhill will affect what the horse actually looks like. If you do like most people and just compare top of rump to top of wither, the answer is different than when you consider where the spine is running in the horse. If you have two horses that measure the same using that method, the horse with the tallest withers will have the most downhill angulation in their spine. Thatâs why there are lots of very spinally downhill Warmbloods who have very tall wither, but whose owners canât keep their saddles from sliding forward (and who end up with white hairs and big hollows in their wither pockets).
Likwise, you donât see too many really downhill QHâs without those same pockets and white hairs.
Itâs all fit-for-purpose in the endâŠ
A horse built downhill is ALWAYS working to lift and move that heavy front end. Doesnât matter which job he is doing, if he has to also LIFT the front, while pushing from behind, he has a harder job than a horse with a more level back.
Horse moving âon his ownâ in the pasture, not being asked to âbridle upâ is going to really be impacting his front legs with heavy weighted going on those front legs. That kind of wear shows up on his legs, hooves, so he is less likely to last over a long time. Add in the Breed propensity for small hooves, navicular, all that front-end weight slamming down on them, and you have a horse with a limited use life span. Then he is a pasture ornament that will cost more in his years ahead, than he cost to purchase.
And for the downhill horse who is not turned out, only used with a rider, making him work collected, constantly on his hindquarters, lifting that front end, is going to hurt his hind legs too.
You CAN sometimes help the downhill horse by adding pads under shoes, get his withers up even with his rump. Horse is not being pulled on so badly, trying to work against his own body in the jobs you ask of him.
There are âgood horseâ with ideal conformation drawings, examples with photos, used to educate people learning about horses. NEVER have I seen the âIdeal Horseâ with downhill builds. There are reasons for this, mostly because in any other kind of horse you want to use, downhill is BAD CONFORMATION! To continue breeding such poor conformation because a horse is from famous bloodlines is just nuts! But the QH, and other Western breeds that allow QH outcrosses, do this and people keep buying those poorly built animals. Why change if that poor product sells well?
There are âIdealâ horse examples, because the majority of horses used, hold up better in work, shows, competition, if they are closer to Ideal instead of being poorly built. Crooked legs, downhill build, put extra stresses on the body to force wear and tear that is not normal on a better built horse. Of course EVERYONE has an example of poorly built animal that was never lame. I am talking averages proved over years of horse keeping in hard work. You would not have seen downhill built horses chosen for Cavalry Troops. Such horses couldnât take the expected daily miles needed to reach destinations.
Times have changed, horses donât work much for a living now, so the downhill horse can survive and thrive in the present times. Not what I would buy, but I am a hard user of horses. They need to be pretty close to that Ideal horse, because I want them to last and last in our long relationship. No major faults accepted, and a good mind is required as well.
Good conformation is good conformation, regardless of breed, and a down hill horse is/should be penalized in any conformation evaluation.
In fact, much as Iâm just some one that shows halter casual, as part of an all around horse, I do know that good judges in a senior horse class (halter, senior horses are four and up, unlike under saddle )will ask the age of your horse, as even stock horses are supposed to have an up hill build by then.
Certainly, downhill build was listed as a fault in our Horse Improvement program evaluation, and that included stock horses
It is totally true that many downhill horses that excel in a performance event, are never in a class where conformation is evaluated-just performance results, and if they win, they are bred on
While I do show some, I also agree that many of our show horses and recreational horses never are used for work day in and day out, thus conformation that stands up to work, and is also conducive to what is considered a âsaddle backâ horse, is not really selected for
Working ranches like the bar 6666, have introduced TB to add size to their cowhorses
At the same time, there is a great deal of difference in type within the stock horses, that allow them to be 'versatile . Since I raised Appaloosas, I will refer to that âbreedâ There are Appaloosas that have done very well in open Sport horse competition, as well as in traditional stock horse events, and that requires a range in body type ( I am not talking downhill conformation! )
Warmbloods, on the other hand, have a more fixed body type, but at the same time, you are likely not to see a Warmblood reiner or working cowhorse, while stock horses like the Appaloosa stallion Pay and Go, have competed successfully against warmbloods, and also earned Grande Prix
I ran across this horse on Dreamhorse. Maybe itâs a bad photo but thatâs the most downhill horse I think Iâve ever seen. Back legs are WAY longer than front legs!
[QUOTE=imaginique;7914192]
I ran across this horse on Dreamhorse. Maybe itâs a bad photo but thatâs the most downhill horse I think Iâve ever seen. Back legs are WAY longer than front legs!
in the video, he doesnât look so bad. i think the high white behind is somewhat misleading. i see some conformation flaws that are much worse in his video/pic, jmho.
Thanks for all of the comments. It gives me more to think about as I am horse shopping over the next few months.
[QUOTE=beowulf;7914228]
in the video, he doesnât look so bad. i think the high white behind is somewhat misleading. i see some conformation flaws that are much worse in his video/pic, jmho.[/QUOTE]
Hadnât noticed there was a video but you are right. I wonder why they chose that horrible photo?
Based on my experience, I would disagree. âDownhillâ does not equal heavy on the forehand anymore than âuphillâ automatically equates to ânotâ heavy on the forehand.
Just google pictures of whatâs winning in the top AQHA halter horse venues. Almost all of them are downhill, have very upright pasterns, posty hocks and small, pony sized feet on 1,500# bodies. While Iâve seen QHâs with much better confo than these halter âwinnersâ, itâs hard to find one thatâs not downhill and has adequate sized hooves.
I donât mean to knock QH fans in general but IMO, more than a few are as blind to what good equine conformation is as they are in seeing their western pleasure show winners as âgreat moversâ. Maybe they were - before the training required made them look like theyâre doing the navicular shufffle.
For OP, sorry but you should edit the title of your thread- conFIRmation is either verification of something or a Christian Church ritual for young people. ConFORmation is the way a horse is built. That ones like fingernails on a blackboard.
Being built slightly downhill may be either plus or minus depending on intended use of horse. If they need to get down in front with belly on the ground, it might help. But if you need to elevate the forehand and work off the hocks, not so much. Think youâll find the best are only slightly downhill or uphill depending on which events they were bred for. If itâs more then slight, it hampers them in most jobs. Best ones I ever saw in cow work were pretty much level to slightly uphill. I donât buy the deliberately bred to be considerably downhill, most top ones are not. The close descendants of King werenât either, I had a couple back when.
[QUOTE=goodhors;7914059]
A horse built downhill is ALWAYS working to lift and move that heavy front end. Doesnât matter which job he is doing, if he has to also LIFT the front, while pushing from behind, he has a harder job than a horse with a more level back.[/QUOTE]
I also disagree - when looking at champion cutting horse sires, again and again I am seeing horses that are down hill - as in the withers are lower than the croup.
How about Smart Little Lena? A LEGEND when it comes to reined cow horses - very successful horse, produced many winnersâŠ
And Smart Little Lena is quite DOWN HILL.
CD Royal here - certainly looks down hill.
That didnât stop him from earning close to $200,000 or his get from earning well over 2M. If down hill in a cutting horse was such a detriment - I donât think we would see so many successful WESTERN horses of this build.
Again - neither of these horses would make champion dressage mounts, but they were VERY agile - despite having withers lower than their croups.
We had a son of Docs Hotrodder, out of a Triple Chick mare, that was an excellent cutting horse and spent some years working wheat pasture cattle.
Canât find a harder job for a horse.
He was 13.3 hands in front and 14.2 hands on top of his butt, properly measured with a stick.
He just didnât have much withers, but he stayed sound and worked hard, was still showing at 18 in high school cuttings and being very competitive.
While everyone wants a horse with perfect conformation, if a horse is riding well and staying sound, any odd conformation is the right conformation ⊠for that horse.
Coming from jumpers, where if it jumps is a good horse, no matter what it looks like, one of our riding centerâs regional high point jumper was a pure belgian in his mid teens, I have learned to look at the horse and what it can do first, then decide if what else is in that horse is acceptable for what I need/want/like.
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