Another farm under siege article

[SuzieQNutter]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8637974]
Oh yes, the injectable meats on aisle 3. Yum.[/QUOTE]

Don’t blood them and it means your cattle will lie down and not get up. They will die. With them blooded if they go down you know that it is 3 day sickness and just give them shade and water and usually they get up after 3 days.

Don’t vaccinate them and it means they will abort and give birth to dead calves.

Don’t worm them and your cattle will be full of worms, not grow and look like they have not grown into their tails and their ears.

Each product has how long that it can not be eaten for human consumption we go well over that.

We put no poisons over our crops. We make our own hay and feed them that.

Yes we eat our own cattle. Who have not suffered from internal worms, external parasites such as ticks and flies and are able to breed live calves.

[Kwill]

I went again to look on FB to see if anything had happened.

It’s case book, when something gets taken up as a cause that has really nothing to do with the actual issue that caused the initial reaction:

We are following this story closely and while we do not condone giving money to Minnie’s owners to purchase her, we hope that they will have compassion and give Minnie to a sanctuary to live out her natural life in peace instead of sending her to slaughter like the 36 million cows who are killed in the US every year. We hope this story will allow people to look more critically at animal agriculture and that it inspires people to go vegan to save others just like Minnie.

my bold. The original complainant told the farm to “go get a steak elsewhere.”

Who is leading protests to save Minnie the cow?? We really need alot of protestors out there every day to save this very loving, very affectionate, beautiful living spirit, Minnie, from her owners’ wanting murder her and eat her!!!

…She has been used for many birthday parties and school tours. The owners of the farm have now announced that it is time for Minnie to be slaughtered, so that they can eat her. While this is a common farm practice, Minnie has won a place in the hearts of many visitors and they are begging the owners to allow Minnie to live. The Barnayrd Sanctuary has offered to go get Minnie and bring her to our sanctuary, if the owners agree to spare her life.

The gist of many objections on quite a few facebook pages seems to be that they “used” Minnie to make money, and now they are sending her to slaughter because they have no more use for her. Which was never the case, of course. But the perception from quite a number of people is she had the job of pet, somehow, and is now being thrown away.

So whatever the farmer said, he didn’t say it well.

There is no doubt that the disconnect between farming and the general public has gotten very large, indeed. Using words like “murder” and phrases like “slaughter, so they can eat her” , “spare her life” and “begging the owners” are very inflammatory.

For a laugh, someone posted not only do they not eat meat, they don’t wear silk. Which I do hope they understand comes from insects, not animals.

[amm2cd]

And just who is forcing education on those who don’t care? Not everyone is a lost cause, though some very obviously are. I am going to suggest you take the time to actually read some of the replies. Your circular arguments have been countered by many.

Obviously you feel it’s best to give up and let ignorance reign. Have at it.

(Kwill, Insects are animals too…)

[RodeoFTW]

They never should have given that heifer a name! Or at least, not tell the public. XD

[RodeoFTW]

[QUOTE=amm2cd;8639046]
And just who is forcing education on those who don’t care? Not everyone is a lost cause, though some very obviously are. I am going to suggest you take the time to actually read some of the replies. Your circular arguments have been countered by many.

Obviously you feel it’s best to give up and let ignorance reign. Have at it.[/QUOTE]

I was never countered. You and a few others have a different (still flawed) opinion from mine.

Again, you can’t push your agenda and beliefs about livestock down people’s throats. They’ll come up with their own opinions on things. I told everyone what city/suburban people were like, and you all think I’m crazy but the petition is text book what I’m trying to say.

People are becoming less and less inclined to eat meat now, anyways.

If I wasn’t already interested in farming, just listening to several of you all would have turned me off from ever wanting to take an interest.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8638804]
She was presented as a pet. That was the opinion of the people who went to Benner’s farm, who are the only ones with opinions that matter since they patronize (or don’t patronize anymore) his business.

Once again, perception is reality.[/QUOTE]

One woman patron of the farm.

The petitioners who are not patrons do not count in the financial business of the farm.

The financial business of the farm may suffer due to the trash-talking pile-on, or it may not.

If there is no financial impact to the farm, there is nothing to fix.

It only matters if the customer turnover is significant enough to affect their business. So far this just doesn’t seem to be happening.

The petition ranters have an inflated opinion of their impact: they see themselves as a Thunderstorm birthed Tornado, when in fact they are just an April shower.

[Kwill]

Well plants communicate with each other through underground networks. But you need to eat something, right?

[RodeoFTW]

There are petitioners who are patrons, though. It’s enough of an issue that Benner was afraid the farm might close.

[myhorse]

RodeoFTW, you don’t want people shoving their opinions down your throat but you continue to shove yours down ours.

[JoZ]

Well there are people standing outside with signs. Not much of a step to hurling produce or bringing buckets of blood like the PETA folks do to people wearing fur. There are multiple reasons why his business might suffer as a result of this cluster, but we shouldn’t assume it’s because people feel the same way as Ms. Sherriton or her merry band. Sometimes it’s hard to get somewhere through the throng.

[JoZ]

[QUOTE=myhorse;8639111]
RodeoFTW, you don’t want people shoving their opinions down your throat but you continue to shove yours down ours.[/QUOTE]

I think Rodeo has started a thread about bringing her horse to college. I don’t know whether to hope she does or does not get involved in debate. Maybe it would be helpful to learn that (a) repeating yourself ad nauseum, (b) ignoring all compelling truths presented by others and © telling people they are wrong are not winning tactics.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8639053]
I was never countered. You and a few others have a different (still flawed) opinion from mine.

Again, you can’t push your agenda and beliefs about livestock down people’s throats. They’ll come up with their own opinions on things. I told everyone what city/suburban people were like, and you all think I’m crazy but the petition is text book what I’m trying to say.

People are becoming less and less inclined to eat meat now, anyways.

If I wasn’t already interested in farming, just listening to several of you all would have turned me off from ever wanting to take an interest.[/QUOTE]

Note here that meat consumption has not fallen below 1970 levels as of 2010, despite the economic fallout and drought in cattle and grain producing locales pushing prices high.
http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/how-much-meat-do-americans-eat-then-and-now-1792/

People - if by that you mean the world - are inclined to eat more meat as their economies improve.
It is claimed that the major industrial countries have reached saturation, but that leaves out the populations of places with rapid growth like China and India.
http://www.globalagriculture.org/report-topics/meat-and-animal-feed.html

Granted, statistics can be interpreted as the researcher might prefer, but here, at least, I have provided some outside data.

Is there backup for your observational statement regarding meat consumption?

Is there backup for the I told you what (a very large segment of the population - city/suburban dwellers) were like.
-Other than the petitioners?

We all know the media loves to cover cluster****s and pretty celebrity inane protestations, but that doesn’t make it majority opinion or legal precedent.

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=JoZ;8638753]
I think (from the number of posts from Rodeo and Red Barn, and particularly from the one just above mine that has the “jimminy” phrase) that these two are mistaking “understanding my point of view” for “changing your mind to coincide with my point of view”. I think pretty much everyone here has done the former and pretty much no one here is going to do the latter. Continue to say your point of view in slightly different ways each time, but the end result will probably continue to be that we don’t agree with you. Somehow you two seem to think that means we (the majority) are wrong. That’s the part I don’t understand.[/QUOTE]
You don’t understand how someone might disagree with a majority view? That’s . . . fascinating.

:lol:

Honestly, though, I’m pretty sure half the people in this “majority” of yours are farm-war zealots in their own right, so I can’t quite see myself getting too worked up about being outnumbered.

I mean, it’s not like this is my first foray into one these hand-wringing, hair tearing, hot-button topics, and I actually quite like the energy levels they generate. It’s kind of like arguing about politics, but with more angstyness and outrage.

[RodeoFTW]

“Back in 1972, the average American consumed at least 104 pounds of red meat a year, according to the United States Department of Agriculture. By 2012, the most recent year for which data exists, that average had fallen to 75 pounds, a drop of more than 25%. All meat consumption, meanwhile, which includes poultry and fish, has fallen about 10% per capita since 2004, the USDA data shows.”

Well, well, well…

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-decline-red-meat-america

Like I was saying.

[Red_Barn]

Now you’ve done it, Rodeo.

They’re really gonna get pissed off now. :lol:

[dags]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8639036]

Times are changing. People are a lot more critical of animal management, even when it’s sometimes unnecessary. I’d much rather things be like this than what they were before.[/QUOTE]

But that is the big giant spectacularly missed neon blinking educational opportunity we are talking about.

THIS cow is getting the most magnificent care (ie: animal management) of possibly any cow in this entire country. There is absolutely ZERO complaint about this animal’s care. Only that it is going to die. For food. Like the gazillions of other cows out there. Only they are in far, far worse situations.

You want pointed mentions of animal slaughter on the web site, and in the next breath point out it will ruin his business. So, what now? No kids get to visit a real live farm?

He does it right. He shows them the cow and then the parents can connect the dots if they so desire. For sure, some parents don’t wanna touch this with a 10’ pole, and so they don’t ask where the freaking farm cow ends up. Others might see it as an excellent opportunity to teach their child about respect for your food and the push for a humane food cycle. Either way, the parents make the call.

The parents define the perception these children gain, not the farmer.

And ignorance just cannot count. Everyone knows burgers come from cows. Steaks come from cows. Beef Tartare comes from cows. You do not need some degree in rural living to figure this out. If Minnie the Cow is slapping fast-food-loving New Yorkers in the face with a big sloppy tongues full of this is what dinner looks like, then good.

What’s done is done, and yeah, I don’t predict a huge impact to the bottom line. So alllll that matters now is the conversation you choose to have about it. You can foster and defend the ignorance, or you can stand up for the education you admit these folks don’t have.

And FWIW, city-folk are not idjits. And as a Chicagoan I certainly don’t need to be told about them. Geez.

[JoZ]

Bravo/brava dags. That was a perfect summary.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8639149]
“Back in 1972, the average American consumed at least 104 pounds of red meat a year, according to the United States Department of Agriculture. By 2012, the most recent year for which data exists, that average had fallen to 75 pounds, a drop of more than 25%. All meat consumption, meanwhile, which includes poultry and fish, has fallen about 10% per capita since 2004, the USDA data shows.”

Well, well, well…

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-decline-red-meat-america

Like I was saying.[/QUOTE]

And, just as I said, people can cherry-pick data to ‘showcase’ their positions.
You cannot limit consumption to ‘red meat’ falling, without noting that ‘white meat’ has risen -unless you want to be guilty of error by omission - to indicate that total consumption of (both) meat has dropped for the same time period inclusive.
Because it hasn’t. (she provided the link to the data)

There was an economic ‘event’ in 2005… and I did mention the loss would impact high end purchasing… that would include meat pricing. So there has been a nosedive in consumption in the US since 2004. Levels of total meat consumption are still no lower than 1970 in 2012, however.
Just click on the data link and go to the charts, mouse over the year and you will see pounds in numeric amounts.
Add red meat and other together and voila - total has an insignificant difference.

Biased reporting is biased reporting, that’s all.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8639159]
Now you’ve done it, Rodeo.

They’re really gonna get pissed off now. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Nah. Nothing to get pissed about.

Will ‘the other side’?

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=Red Barn;8639148]
You don’t understand how someone might disagree with a majority view? That’s . . . fascinating.

:lol:

Honestly, though, I’m pretty sure half the people in this “majority” of yours are farm-war zealots in their own right, so I can’t quite see myself getting too worked up about being outnumbered.

I mean, it’s not like this is my first foray into one these hand-wringing, hair tearing, hot-button topics, and I actually quite like the energy levels they generate. It’s kind of like arguing about politics, but with more angstyness and outrage.[/QUOTE]

Assumption, much? ‘a majority view?’
5% is not a majority, last time I checked.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/156215/consider-themselves-vegetarians.aspx

Okay, gallup polls are not the most accurate measure, but if you believe all vegetarians are aligned with the ‘you can’t eat meat, just like my choice, because I know best, rant, rant’ folks, you are unreasonably optimistic.

What if it were 10%?
-Still not a majority.

Well, well, well.

ETA -Nice touch the farm war zealots. Sticks and stones…