[QUOTE=Pipkin;7503492]
I own horses :lol:[/QUOTE]
truth!
[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7503496]
I was bitten by a Doberman as a kid. My pitty x is the perfect family pet, and has been for 14 years 
She has grown up with many other pets and I have had her since puppyhood. No baggage, just good heart and no desire to hurt!
I understand not all are like her - but please understand there are some very good ones out there too.[/QUOTE]
I do, but it doesn’t trump public safety. One breed of fighting dog is not more important then public safety. I was bitten by a shepherd cross and had to get stitched up, and I’ve had my dogs attacked on dog walks by loose dogs–a husky mix, a JRT, and a purebred GSD. None of those breeds are going to kill my dogs in front of me at the end of their leashes. Incidentally, the worst was the JRT attack, my dog ended up with a drain in his head. It’s the terrier that makes the damage potential so great, they truly do go “mad”. The really game ones go to a different planet when their blood is up. That tendency in a pit bull size and shape terrier is easily potentially fatal to an unaided adult human being.
If this thread was about a Golden or Lab would people be bashing the breed? I’ve seen bad Pits, but I’ve also seen worse “doodle” dogs. I worked in behavior at a large shelter and we had all breeds come through and had to evaluate each dog before they either went up for adoption or euth. I’ve signed off on many dogs that were not stable enough for the general public. Not all Pits. Strangely, other breeds were more dangerous to people than the pits we evaluated. Granted the dog aggressive pits didn’t make it either, but human aggression was not predominant. Siberians, GSD, Great Danes, Saint Bernard, and the Doodle mixes were the worst for human aggression. Plus we had a local Bloodhound breeder who bred scary dogs, we got quite a few of them turned in.
I like Pits, just adopted an older female as a matter of fact. I’ve always had at risk breeds, Dobes, Rotts, an Bull Mastiffs. I take it seriously to have my dog be a solid citizen. She is social, human and dog, but not so much cat friendly. I’m making sure she is never loose. It is my responsibility to make sure she she does not get loose, harass the neighbors, or get in any altercations. I’m super vigilant when out with her, if anything would happen, such as a loose dog challenging her she would be blamed just because of her breed.
[QUOTE=scierra;7503548]
If this thread was about a Golden or Lab would people be bashing the breed? I’ve seen bad Pits, but I’ve also seen worse “doodle” dogs. I worked in behavior at a large shelter and we had all breeds come through and had to evaluate each dog before they either went up for adoption or euth. I’ve signed off on many dogs that were not stable enough for the general public. Not all Pits. Strangely, other breeds were more dangerous to people than the pits we evaluated. Granted the dog aggressive pits didn’t make it either, but human aggression was not predominant. Siberians, GSD, Great Danes, Saint Bernard, and the Doodle mixes were the worst for human aggression. Plus we had a local Bloodhound breeder who bred scary dogs, we got quite a few of them turned in.
I like Pits, just adopted an older female as a matter of fact. I’ve always had at risk breeds, Dobes, Rotts, an Bull Mastiffs. I take it seriously to have my dog be a solid citizen. She is social, human and dog, but not so much cat friendly. I’m making sure she is never loose. It is my responsibility to make sure she she does not get loose, harass the neighbors, or get in any altercations. I’m super vigilant when out with her, if anything would happen, such as a loose dog challenging her she would be blamed just because of her breed.[/QUOTE]
the reason is b/c it is very common to hear about Pit Bull attacks. I have not heard many if any about labs that have killed. I realize there are good pit bulls. but many of the pit bulls in these stories were thought to be 'good" pit bulls before they snapped.
[QUOTE=Sswor;7503528]
I do, but it doesn’t trump public safety. One breed of fighting dog is not more important then public safety. I was bitten by a shepherd cross and had to get stitched up, and I’ve had my dogs attacked on dog walks by loose dogs–a husky mix, a JRT, and a purebred GSD. None of those breeds are going to kill my dogs in front of me at the end of their leashes. human being.[/QUOTE]
I quite disagree with this Sswor, a GSD that truly attacked your dog could kill it right in front of you. Ditto a large northern breed or a Rottie.
[QUOTE=scierra;7503548]
If this thread was about a Golden or Lab would people be bashing the breed? I’ve seen bad Pits, but I’ve also seen worse “doodle” dogs. I worked in behavior at a large shelter and we had all breeds come through and had to evaluate each dog before they either went up for adoption or euth. I’ve signed off on many dogs that were not stable enough for the general public. Not all Pits. Strangely, other breeds were more dangerous to people than the pits we evaluated. Granted the dog aggressive pits didn’t make it either, but human aggression was not predominant. Siberians, GSD, Great Danes, Saint Bernard, and the Doodle mixes were the worst for human aggression. Plus we had a local Bloodhound breeder who bred scary dogs, we got quite a few of them turned in.
I like Pits, just adopted an older female as a matter of fact. I’ve always had at risk breeds, Dobes, Rotts, an Bull Mastiffs. I take it seriously to have my dog be a solid citizen. She is social, human and dog, but not so much cat friendly. I’m making sure she is never loose. It is my responsibility to make sure she she does not get loose, harass the neighbors, or get in any altercations. I’m super vigilant when out with her, if anything would happen, such as a loose dog challenging her she would be blamed just because of her breed.[/QUOTE]
the very worst dog I’ve ever dealt with was a Cock-a-poo. He was about 30# and if he had been bigger, I’d have declined to work with him. He’d wait for you to reach for whatever you were working with him on (guarding issues) and then he’d lunge, quick as a snake, for your face. He’d set you up and then try to get you.
What so many of you who say, oh but reports are how many pit type dogs attack, yeah don’t believe all you read. As in the case of the rescue I deal with, Lucky, was initially reported as a pit bull, chasing children in the neighborhood and was shot 3 times, did not kill her. Lucky is all hound and nothing but hound. It was the police officer doing the shooting who reported her as a pit bull, which was then reported to the local news.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/438108609651814/
I’d really like to know just how many dog bites/ attacks that are reported as Pit Bull attacks are really the breed reported. Years ago in Phoenix there was a dog mauling and the graphic they used was a Rottielvr, this was when Rotts were the bad breed, the news clip showed a dark dog that did not resemble a Rott at all other than being black. I’ve seen dogs surrendered at the shelter being called Pit Bulls that were very obviously Boxers. I’m sure that a lot are bully breed mixes, but I don’t trust the media not to jump on the dangerous breed de jour. I’m all for dangerous dog legislation, just not blaming an entire breed for the problems. The reason we see or hear of so many bully breed incidents is because of them being so popular with the wrong people. Dobermans, GSD, and Rottweilers went through this too when over breeding watered down the breeds and came close to ruining them. I hope the bully dogs will soon be on the upswing for breeding their temperament back to where it should be.
[QUOTE=Stushica;7503369]
It’s not that everything that is said is said to me personally, however the actions you suggest would directly effect me and my dog… So it is taken a bit personally.[/QUOTE]
Your choice to own this type of animal directly affects me and my dog. I saw another poster say this and wasn’t going to chip in, but then saw the way you responded to her. You were insulting and dismissive, and said that her unreasonable paranoia was creating the problem; if only she stopped reacting, the “bad owners” would be deprived of attention and go away. I suggest you follow your own zen advice. Stop reacting to BSL, just let it happen. It’s no threat to you. Your pits are safe, your pits are owned by you, the “good pit bull owner” so they’ll never run loose or bite or maul. You’ll be fine. Just stop giving the “haters” the reaction they want, and let them have their way. They’ll go away. Be zen, pit bull owner.
This pit owner description of BSL is typical hysterical BS. AC isn’t any more highly funded or aggressive with BSL than it is without. Cops aren’t going door-to-door searching out pits; if your pit is seized and euth’d, it’s because it came to AC’s notice by running loose or by biting someone. Big freaking deal. I’ve never had animal control involved with my dogs. They’ve never been found running loose, never bit anyone, never attacked a dog or livestock. It isn’t that hard to pull off.
My owning “this type of dog” really doesn’t affect you though. He is kept on leash except in very few instances where he is on private land/ fenced areas/ etc. where I have explicit permission that he is OK to let off leash. If you lived near me and wanted to avoid him cross the road or walk on the other side of the trail I can assure you he’s not going to go kujo break the leash and maul you… the very idea actually just made me giggle.
I may have been insulting and dismissive but it was due to feeling insulted and dismissed. I also did not say she was the problem but that the hysterical mind set added to the problem.
As another poster noted there are many levels of BSL the ones that are most often proposed are for eradication of the “breed” in that case I could be majorly fined and my dog confiscated and euthed if someone called in seeing him or we were seen walking by AC / LEO’s. What am I suppose to do then? Teach him to use potty mats and never take him outside again? Buy a new house? (which we would do if the alternative was giving up the dog) My sub devision has it’s own access path to the greenway my dog and I run on… it’s one of the reasons I live here.
I have to give you credit for calling me out on being not-so-zen though. Fear works both ways. You’re afraid of my dog. I’m afraid of you taking him away. 
[QUOTE=Sswor;7503528]
I do, but it doesn’t trump public safety. One breed of fighting dog is not more important then public safety. I was bitten by a shepherd cross and had to get stitched up, and I’ve had my dogs attacked on dog walks by loose dogs–a husky mix, a JRT, and a purebred GSD. None of those breeds are going to kill my dogs in front of me at the end of their leashes. Incidentally, the worst was the JRT attack, my dog ended up with a drain in his head. It’s the terrier that makes the damage potential so great, they truly do go “mad”. The really game ones go to a different planet when their blood is up. That tendency in a pit bull size and shape terrier is easily potentially fatal to an unaided adult human being.[/QUOTE]
Actually, we have seen a lot of DOA pets come in through out hospital who were savagely attacked by German Shepards and Akitas. They can just as easily kill poor fluffy
Since you use the term DOA, the vast majority of DOA, severe mailings and death following hospitalization for attack at our hospital are due to Pit Bulls/bully breeds. And we’re not in a ghetto type area. Not by a long shot.
The success of a fighting dog is based on having the upper hand and damage done. Attacking without warning is one way to get the upper hand and its a tactic that’s been successfully bred into fighting dogs generation after generation. To say there’s no threat to public safety and then cite personal stories along the lines of “my fluff bunny is sooo harmless” or “I’ve known 6 Pit Bulls and I never got attacked” does nothing to help solve the obvious problem. Pit Bulls are responsible for more than 90% of human DBRFs so far this year in the United States and they make up nowhere near 90% of the American dog population. Some degree of BSL is necessary at this point. I don’t agree with an out and out ban, but something needs to change. And, honestly, I never felt this way until these threads got me reading.
We recently had a very very sad case here. I hope the owner of these dogs gets exactly what that poor little horse got. Evil thought, I know, but this made me sick.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9436398
It could have been any breed that did this, but for some reason, the majority of people who own pits in this area are not the most responsible people.
Funny story. I foster a pair of pugs for an Army officer. We’ve had them probably a total of 6-8 years, off and on. The male is a little black guy, and very vocal in his opinions. We were at the vet, waiting room had probably 10 dogs in there. Mostly smaller dogs…yorkies, a little poodle, doxies, etc. Chark was sitting there, just as quiet as could be. A guy walks in with a HUGE pit. I mean seriously big. Charky went nuts, he tried his very best to get at him. The man with pit, told his dog to sit, and that sweetie just looked at my pug like “WTF is his problem?”
[QUOTE=scierra;7503548]
If this thread was about a Golden or Lab would people be bashing the breed? I’ve seen bad Pits, but I’ve also seen worse “doodle” dogs. I worked in behavior at a large shelter and we had all breeds come through and had to evaluate each dog before they either went up for adoption or euth. I’ve signed off on many dogs that were not stable enough for the general public. Not all Pits. Strangely, other breeds were more dangerous to people than the pits we evaluated. Granted the dog aggressive pits didn’t make it either, but human aggression was not predominant. Siberians, GSD, Great Danes, Saint Bernard, and the Doodle mixes were the worst for human aggression. Plus we had a local Bloodhound breeder who bred scary dogs, we got quite a few of them turned in.
EDITED FOR SPACE[/QUOTE]
If you work in a shelter or animal control, your experience is biased to un-disciplined, un-ruly or not-well-socialised dogs of whatever breed(s). Further, these dogs (of whatever breed, including Pit) will be scared and under some distress. I am not saying that you have signed them off incorrectly, rather than the behaviours you are seeing may be out of the ordinary.
A friend of mine does lab rescue -she takes labs and lab xs and either re-homes them, keeps the elderly ones and puts the ones that “arent right in the head” for whatever reason peacefully to sleep. BUT she gives them time to adapt to being in her care before she makes any decision. And I know many people who would love to live in her clean, spacious well appointed kennels and 5-acre “yard” with trees, plants, mounds and other obstacles where the dogs are let loose under supervision.
I could get all defensive and say that a lot of dogs id’ed as LAB Xs have no lab. After all, they do have a very distinctive head. I dont. I look at an undisciplined etc dog - or one that has fallen through the cracks.
If people were really interested in resolving this issue re breed as general, the questions really need to be asked about dogs that have not been through a shelter/rescue. This is your base-normal population. The shelter/rescue dogs are the poster children for good training … but that shouldnt give them a free pass
[QUOTE=threedogpack;7503628]
I quite disagree with this Sswor, a GSD that truly attacked your dog could kill it right in front of you. Ditto a large northern breed or a Rottie.[/QUOTE]
I believe all of those breeds are less likely to be dog aggressive in the first place and in the event of possible attack, I believe those breeds are less likely to kill another dog in the presence of a prepared handler then a pit bull. At least we would stand a chance. Against a pit bull we’re both dead because I would jump in to defend my dog, how could I not?
I leave my dogs in the car at the vet until they call us if there is a pit bull in the waiting room. I would cross the street if I saw someone walking one but as it is, the pit bull owners in my neighborhood never walk their dogs. If they did perhaps they would run loose less often.
These dogs kill people and they kill other dogs in horrific and brutal ways, and they have been doing this for over 100 years. The reports are not “picking” on pit bulls, pit bulls have fairly earned their reputation throughout American history. This is not a nanny dog, this is a fighting dog, it’s always been a fighting dog.
I would support BSL if it came on the ballot in my municipality, and if the pit bulls that periodically run loose in my neighborhood escalate as a problem, I will indeed begin organizing and petitioning for BSL here.
[QUOTE=Sswor;7504057]
I believe all of those breeds are less likely to be dog aggressive in the first place and in the event of possible attack, I believe those breeds are less likely to kill another dog in the presence of a prepared handler then a pit bull. At least we would stand a chance. Against a pit bull we’re both dead because I would jump in to defend my dog, how could I not?[/QUOTE]
you are welcome to believe what you want. I STILL disagree. Any large breed who is truly determined to hurt/maim/kill another is going to be pretty scary.
[QUOTE=Nezzy;7503583]
the reason is b/c it is very common to hear about Pit Bull attacks. I have not heard many if any about labs that have killed. I realize there are good pit bulls. but many of the pit bulls in these stories were thought to be 'good" pit bulls before they snapped.[/QUOTE]
That’s actually not true. The majority of the major dog bites caused by ANY breed are yard dogs. Dogs that have been put in a yard or on a chain and then not given proper attention and training. They are usually intact. And they are quite frequently free roaming.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fatalities/
Check out that most of the dogs are intact, free roaming, not family pets, and have some previous incidents showing they might have issues. Please note that breed was not a predictor. The study was published by the Journal of the American Veterinary Association, so I’m pretty confident that the research is sound.
Pit’s don’t “snap” and turn on their owners with no warning any more than any other dog. When a dog bites, there is always predictors that would tell someone observant and trained in dog behavior that there is a problem brewing.
What we need is education. Education will teach people to pay attention to what the dog is telling us. It will teach people how to train the dog that doesn’t promote aggression and/or fear. It will teach people how to intervene before there is a problem. And it will teach people how to appropriately interact with a dog.
Case in point, I was at work today. We have a little shy beagle mix that we are working at socializing and convincing her that people aren’t going to eat her. Very nice, very well meaning volunteer goes to try and coax her out of her shell, and did it by bending over at her waist over the dogs head. Yes, I took the time to explain how to coax the dog out without scaring her.
[QUOTE=Stushica;7503717]
My owning “this type of dog” really doesn’t affect you though. He is kept on leash except in very few instances where he is on private land/ fenced areas/ etc. where I have explicit permission that he is OK to let off leash. If you lived near me and wanted to avoid him cross the road or walk on the other side of the trail I can assure you he’s not going to go kujo break the leash and maul you… the very idea actually just made me giggle. [/QUOTE]
Oh, yeah, it does affect me, for the reasons the other poster described. Your choice of pet is one that has a horrible safety record and a high tendency to attack other dogs. And dog laws haven’t kept up with the pit invasion, so if your snugglebutt gives you a surprise one day and gets loose and mauls mine, I’ll have virtually no recourse. You may have a $200 fine for a loose dog; I may have a dead dog or a $6k vet bill. So don’t expect me to cry a river for your BSL worries. They’re largely illusory, based on the victim fantasy that the Gestapo are coming for your breed. My worries are based on a dozen actual cases every week of mauled dogs, bitten owners, and pit owners who get away scotfree.
And here’s a thought - why don’t you and your pit cross the street? I take my dog out of the way of smaller dogs, or dogs being walked by the elderly or children. It’s just manners. I’ve never seen a pit owner do the same for people with dogs.
Oh, wait, I know why. The idea of your pit attacking makes you giggle.
There are a lot of us who think a even “major” fine and a healthy dog going quietly from life to death via a vet injection sounds pretty idyllic considering the hell our dog lived (or not) through, being mauled like a zebra on the veldt for the crime of walking on a suburban sidewalk or in a park, and paying for vet bills and watching our pet cry in pain. In this life, you are supposed to pay for your choices. If you want a dog-killer, you should pay the price, not everyone around you who chose a safer bet. A lot of your neighbors are probably leery of that nice greenway since your pit and you are running on it.
vacation and et all, do you really think that all pit types are just walking dog killing machines? Because that is the way you come across and it sounds very unbalanced emotionally.
I have been around full APBT and pit crosses for many years and none of the ones I have been around have been dog aggressive, none. One that I had PTS was people aggressive, he was found abandoned had been fought. My foster bait dog was NOT dog aggressive nor people aggressive in any way shape or form and she had a right to be from the scars she wears to this day and with her canines knocked half off. Took her on a bully walk, celebrating the pit bulls. All of the dogs were well behaved, we were passing a restaurant with a beagle tied out, the beagle bit my foster on the nose, my foster just turned and walked away, never even growled at the stupid beagle.
Meeting me walking my former foster you would have absolutely no reason to move to the other side of the street and I would not knowing my foster so well. She is always eager to meet new friends, but is also ready to go with me when I walked her, ignoring other dogs. The foster I have now is a large bully type think mastiff mix brindle dog, my 25# terrier X will put him on the ground he is so soft a dog (foster is 80 lbs). He might bark at a strange dog, but it is from fear not from aggression because he is a chicken. He also never meets a stranger, loves all people though again I do not understand why, he came to me having been hit on pretty bad. Raise a hand and he would flatten to the ground, throw a toy when I first got him and he would flatten. Not any more and he thinks all people are cool with potential treats in their pockets!
