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Another fatal Pit Bull attack....

The Menagerie
#381

[QUOTE=vacation1;7508145]
BSL would impact dogs - and pit bulls - for the better. It would be an inconvenience and an expense for pit bull owners, but that’s why it would be good their supposedly cherished breed.

Ah, a pit bull owner classic: Back in grandpa’s day, people KNEW about dogs and weren’t these helicopterparenting/cidiot/wusses screaming if good ol’ Roy gave an uppity young’un a warning nip." It’s a fantasy. There are 3 things being left out of that rosy picture of yesteryear:

  1. The kind of dogs romping around loose didn’t include pit bulls because pit bulls were at that point in time owned almost exclusively by people who fought dogs.

  2. Dogs that bit - really bit - weren’t given lawyers and court dates. They were shot or poisoned by cops or angry neighbors.

  3. Rabies. People were not cool with biters back in the day because rabies was a real threat. Still is, of course, but people today mostly assume that their neighbor’s dog is vaccinated. The drive to vaccinate began in the 1920s but didn’t achieve nationwide success until the 1950s. Before that, the public attitude toward bites wasn’t “Ah, Jimmy, you deserved that nip on the face for pulling Buster’s tail!” It was more of a “Did I see Buster fighting with a raccoon last week? Was that the same raccoon I saw stumbling around in the daylight yesterday? Is my kid going to die?”[/QUOTE]

You certainly are misunderstanding a lot and coming to the wrong conclusions here.

#382

[QUOTE=khall;7504382]
vacation and et all, do you really think that all pit types are just walking dog killing machines? Because that is the way you come across and it sounds very unbalanced emotionally. I have been around full APBT and pit crosses for many years and none of the ones I have been around have been dog aggressive, none.[/QUOTE]

And with that statement, you come across like either a liar or a fantasist. It’s like my saying I’ve been around full and part Lab mixes for many years and none have liked water. And tennis balls? Oh, no, that’s like racism. Labs HATE tennis balls.

I’m just shaking my head. You have no right to inflict your potentially flawed interpretation of your knowledge of your dog’s future behavior on other people. I get that we all think our dogs are swell, and safe and lovely. But I think we’ve all had little surprises. I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims ALL their dogs were solid gold. I was lucky enough to have 1 dog that was 110% safe. I would still cross the street with her to give someone - say, an old lady with an elderly little dog - space.

#383

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7508162]
You certainly are misunderstanding a lot and coming to the wrong conclusions here.[/QUOTE]

“We disagree” would have been a shorter way to say that. If I may get all Strunk and White.

#384

vacation, really? Pit bulls were only owned by dog fighters? Apparently you have not researched the history of the breed very well. Stubby, war hero dog,
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1905

Helen Keller owned a pit bull
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1893

Petey from Our Gang
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1894

Sallie, one I did not know about in the Civil War
http://www.cesarsway.com/the-scoop/dog-news/Pit-Bull-Spotlight-Sallie

President Teddy Roosevelt, Humphrey Bogart and Thomas Edison all owned pit bulls.

Elle the pit bull, American Humane Association therapy dog of the year
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/2013-hero-dog-pit-bull_n_4064227.html

Just to name a few. So no, pit bulls were actually a treasured family pet that served a purpose on farms in our earlier history.

vacation have you even had personal experience with a true APBT? If not and you are basing all your information on news reports and internet, well, you cannot believe everything you read on the net! Good book on why and how the pit bulls have become so maligned in recent history: Pit Bulls: Villains or Victims by B. G. Boucher, talks a good bit about how the studies have come up with their statistics (i.e. news stories which are NOT reliable), so such studies are inherently flawed because they are based on flawed data. Well sited book.

I am not a liar in any way, I am a APBT fan based on my personal experience of many years as a vet tech, as a rescue advocate and as a critical thinking/reading human being. I do agree about spaying and neutering most all dogs, regardless of breed or type of dog. All unregistered dogs should be spayed and neutered period. Cats too. I agree on tougher laws on dangerous dogs but not BSLs, I agree on education and outreach to so many lower income areas to first and foremost reduce the unwanted pet population. I agree with low cost spay/neuter programs for all dogs and welcome the programs like one local where they spay pit type dogs for free. I agree it is a tragedy so many “pit bulls” are killed in shelters all across the US, some because of BSLs that do not allow for pits to make it out of the shelter alive. I agree on temperament testing and intensive training to help these rescues transition to a home life (many rescues are not so good on this and I have had words with the one I associate with on this, heated words). There is nothing more humbling to me than to see a dog who has had a rough start in life like my former bait dog foster become a treasured “best dog they ever had” member of the family.

#385

[QUOTE=vacation1;7508169]
“We disagree” would have been a shorter way to say that. If I may get all Strunk and White.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps. I don’t disagree that there is a problem with pit bull people’s representation of the breed or with the idea that there are unique features of the breed that make it dangerous. I disagree that the solution to the problems lies with the government, except that the government should be enforcing existing laws especially those prohibiting dog fighting and dogs running at large.

#386

[QUOTE=khall;7508179]
vacation, really? Pit bulls were only owned by dog fighters? Apparently you have not researched the history of the breed very well. Stubby, war hero dog,
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1905

Helen Keller owned a pit bull
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1893

Petey from Our Gang
http://www.cesarsway.com/node/1894

Sallie, one I did not know about in the Civil War
http://www.cesarsway.com/the-scoop/dog-news/Pit-Bull-Spotlight-Sallie

President Teddy Roosevelt, Humphrey Bogart and Thomas Edison all owned pit bulls.

Elle the pit bull, American Humane Association therapy dog of the year
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/2013-hero-dog-pit-bull_n_4064227.html

Just to name a few. So no, pit bulls were actually a treasured family pet that served a purpose on farms in our earlier history.[/QUOTE]

You shared a few Pit bulls in history, then one from 2013?? and then drew the conclusion that they “served a purpose on farms in our earlier history”? I feel like you selected a wrong answer on a multiple choice reading comprehension quiz. I saw nothing about farms. sigh

#387

Here you go Jackie
Since the very beginning in America, pit bulls have been used as farm dogs, family dogs, military mascots, and all-purpose companions. They were trusted to watch the children while the adults worked in the fields.

In England, the Staffie Bull became affectionately known as “The Nanny Dog” or “The Children’s Nursemaid” because of their placid and nurturing demeanor toward children.

From their inception, these dogs were bred for general human companionship, and since the 1900s, they have been bred for confirmation showing as well.

As the years passed, pit bulls achieved a position of reverence among Americans, and they appeared in advertising campaigns such as Buster Brown and Pup Brand. A classic children’s television show, The Little Rascals, featured Petey the Pit Bull. The pit bull is the only breed to have been on the cover of Life magazine three times.

Many highly respected historical figures have owned pit bulls: President Woodrow Wilson, President Theodore Roosevelt, Helen Keller, Fred Astaire, Humphrey Bogart, and Thomas Edison, to name a few.

Another site on breed history:
http://caninebreeds.bulldoginformation.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-history.html

Just do some research, I read many books on dogs and their history. which is why I have read the story behind Michael Vick’s dogs.

#388

I’m really just stunned to see this. A new one, today:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/apr/01/pit-bull-attack-shot-police-dillard/

Yesterday:

http://onlineathens.com/breaking-news/2014-04-01/4-year-old-boy-recovering-pit-bull-attack

3/28/14:

http://paloverdevalleytimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=19972

Before the threads on this forum I was unaware of the magnitude of this problem, but it’s really just…sad. That’s the only word I can think of. Sad.

#389

[QUOTE=khall;7508230]
Here you go Jackie
Since the very beginning in America, pit bulls have been used as farm dogs, family dogs, military mascots, and all-purpose companions. They were trusted to watch the children while the adults worked in the fields.

In England, the Staffie Bull became affectionately known as “The Nanny Dog” or “The Children’s Nursemaid” because of their placid and nurturing demeanor toward children.

From their inception, these dogs were bred for general human companionship, and since the 1900s, they have been bred for confirmation showing as well.

As the years passed, pit bulls achieved a position of reverence among Americans, and they appeared in advertising campaigns such as Buster Brown and Pup Brand. A classic children’s television show, The Little Rascals, featured Petey the Pit Bull. The pit bull is the only breed to have been on the cover of Life magazine three times.

Many highly respected historical figures have owned pit bulls: President Woodrow Wilson, President Theodore Roosevelt, Helen Keller, Fred Astaire, Humphrey Bogart, and Thomas Edison, to name a few.

Another site on breed history:
http://caninebreeds.bulldoginformation.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-history.html

Just do some research, I read many books on dogs and their history. which is why I have read the story behind Michael Vick’s dogs.[/QUOTE]

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone spouted off the nanny dog tale. We use all kinds of dogs in advertising now. I see SO many Boston Terriers. I don’t think we hold Bostons in a place of reverence. And neither myself, nor my parents recall revering Pits. I call BS on that tale, too.
I’ve read the Vick book, too. Just in case you’re keeping score.

#390

[QUOTE=Marshfield;7505357]
That was my response as well. I had guessed Cane Corso mix when I saw the picture. I couldn’t quickly pull it up, but another post in this thread linked to the facebook information on the kennel and apparently the dog is actually a UKC registered American Pitbull Terrier, though apparently double the listed weight in their breed standard[/QUOTE]

The pit’s kennel name was BTM’s Hidden Treasure, call name Niko, and both parents are registered APBTs. The photo that was shown in news stories is from below and makes the pit appear tall but I believe the weight is due to the heft and width - just a massive, massive animal. The chest marking is distinctive.

http://www.bullypedia.net/americanbully/details.php?id=218440

Just in case anyone is out there shopping for a responsible pit bull breeder (or a unicorn), here are some people to avoid. The pit’s owner was Kerri Dominique and his kennel was Break The Mold or BTM. The pit’s breeder was Teni Gharibians under kennel name Blue Town. Sire from Hostile Takeover Kennel.

https://myspace.com/bluetownkennels/mixes/classic-bully-shows-587146/photo/307900760

http://xlevolution.yuku.com/topic/10837/UKC-S-Most-Wanted-Kimbo-X-Lexii-Breeding-Went-Down-UPDATED-#.Uzt8RLQY1oc

#391

Did you bother to look at the site that was posted? Nothing about nanny dog on it, just working farm dog and member of the family. Personally I do not think that any large dog of any breed should be left with children unattended and no dog period should be left where it can get to an infant. I have no idea if the Nanny dog was true or not in history. There certainly are plenty of photos showing children with pit bull type dogs and I remember watching The Little Rascals and Petey as reruns many years ago. That was certainly a child safe dog.

#392

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;7507104]
come back to join the discussion when you have a well rounded view instead of a heavily slanted opinion.[/QUOTE]

No time for real replies and I’m not done catching up to the end of the tread but saw this and had to seriously LOL!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

#393

Vacation where does it say Niko’s parents were both APBT? Not shown on the site you posted. From what I understand, the American Bully does include APBT and Staffies as well as other larger breeds to get more size. I do know they are breeding APBT bigger in some areas of US, we do not see them that large here in GA. 80 lbs is a huge APBT here. Most are 50 lb area. My foster full APBT was looked at by a judge of both APBT and staffies and he said she had perfect conformation for APBT. She is 45 lbs.

#394

[QUOTE=khall;7508230]
Many highly respected historical figures have owned pit bulls: President Woodrow Wilson, President Theodore Roosevelt, Helen Keller, Fred Astaire, Humphrey Bogart, and Thomas Edison, to name a few.[/QUOTE]

yawn I’m going to bed and don’t have time to read all your links.

But seriously? Can we talk about any highly respected people that have owned a pit bull in…say…the last 20 years? Or 30? I mean…that’s like 50 generations of dogs.

As has been said repeatedly throughout this thread - NO ONE doubts that when well-bred for temperament and soundness a pit bull can be a great pet. A useful guard dog, an obedient dog, a friendly family pet.

Fast forward half a century from Helen Keller owning a pit bull…it has become the breed of choice for dog fighting, guarding (without training) and bad-ass looking family dog. Are we sure we’re still talking about the same breed? The ones that were SELECTED for temperament and soundness?

#395

sigh

Helen Keller’s dog Sir Thomas was a Boston Terrier. Not a pitbull. Helen Keller was known for her affinity for dogs, but mainly for her two favorite dogs; Kamikaze and Kenzan. The former was the first Akita brought to the US when she brought it back from Japan. He sadly died from distemper later on. Japan sent her a second one called Kenzan.

She was not known for pitbull anything. Pitbull sites grabbed onto that picture, skewed the information to suit their needs and redistributed it. Sir Thomas was a famous Boston Terrier from a top breeder in Boston.

UK Staffordshire Bull Terriers and pitbulls: Pitbulls are banned in England. Staffies are not. Amstaffs are not bred with the same temperament lines, the UK is a lot more vigilant about temperament lines in their Staffies due to the natural aggression of the breed. The amount of UK Staffies here in the USA is extremely low. Amstaffs are not nanny-dogs. Our pitbulls are from our American staffie lines, which like most of what we breed here, were developed for size. Not temperament.

The pits and staffies in this country are not comparable in temperament to those in the UK. So all of the “they were made for______” history does not apply to the ones we have here. Akitas aren’t as aggressive in Japan as they are here. Neither are Chows. We screw everything up, especially if there’s a registry and show system for it, which has judging that rewards extremes, which causes breeders to exaggerate those extremes grotesquely. And when we breed for looks, we throw personality and health out of the window. And unfortunately we’re populated with the gullible folks who follow the trends. The majority loved the bigger, the more exaggerated builds, etc and snapped up the breeder culls. (and then cross bred them ourselves without any breeding aims other than Don’t Wanna Speuter It) And now the rest snap them up not due to looks but due to Underdog Syndrom. The human Rescue Remedy.

No amount of stealing tidbits of stories and photos of a 100 years ago of completely differently bred animals, twisting them to suit our opinions and splashing them all over blogs and rescue sites changes the actual history.

FWIW, the farm dog/nanny dog stories were from PBRC: Pitbull Rescue Central.

#396

[QUOTE=khall;7508290]
Vacation where does it say Niko’s parents were both APBT? Not shown on the site you posted. From what I understand, the American Bully does include APBT and Staffies as well as other larger breeds to get more size. I do know they are breeding APBT bigger in some areas of US, we do not see them that large here in GA. 80 lbs is a huge APBT here. Most are 50 lb area. My foster full APBT was looked at by a judge of both APBT and staffies and he said she had perfect conformation for APBT. She is 45 lbs.[/QUOTE]

I posted a link to a page that shows this dogs parentage as being apbt. The link is in this thread. One of the links I posted shows his puppies for sale, too.

#397

[QUOTE=khall;7508179]
vacation, really? Pit bulls were only owned by dog fighters? Apparently you have not researched the history of the breed very well… Just to name a few. So no, pit bulls were actually a treasured family pet that served a purpose on farms in our earlier history.[/QUOTE]

And you’ve apparently mastered google. Come on, now, fishing through pibble sites for famous pit bull owners isn’t research, it’s pit owner masturbation.

Ah, the famous pit bull elitism rears its ugly (and so unlikely) head. Interesting thread for it; the killer pit being discussed is a registered APBT.

You appear to.

Well, that’s a shocking conclusion. The pit bull owner defense is grounded on the claim that there is no data, the data is flawed, there is no data, the data is flawed. There can never be data because all data is drawn from flawed data. There is no data, the data is flawed.

I think my first suspicion that the pit bull movement was a moral vacuum came when I realized all their arguments hinged on denying the existence of any reality - pit bulls cannot be identified, data cannot be gathered, nothing can be proven. In an uncanny way, they’re almost dabbling in philosophy here.

I bet you disagree with the BSL variation that would require pit bulls to be spayed/neutered, though. A lot of pit bull owners seem to fall off their high horse over that one.

#398

These must be nanny animals, too. I mean, there are pictures…

ABA.jpg

ABAA.jpg

ABAAA.jpg

ABAB.jpg

ABABA.jpg

#399

[QUOTE=khall;7508290]
Vacation where does it say Niko’s parents were both APBT? Not shown on the site you posted. [/QUOTE]

If you click on the names of the sire and dam, their pages have UKC registration numbers as APBTs.

#400

S, I was posting regarding vacations allegations about prior history of pit bulls, that they were only owned by dog fighters which is why according to vacation there were no pit bulls running around to bite anyone. Tell that to Stubby, WW1 hero.

Some famous current people who own pit bulls
http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/dog-famous-pit-lovers-pictures.htm

others
http://www.pinterest.com/bruisenotbroke/celebrities-with-pit-bulls/

about Helen Keller http://www.goodpitbulls.com/famous-pit-bulls/sir-thomas/ was Sir Thomas a pit bull or Boston?

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