Another rider death

It sounds like there is way more than just one problem with eventing as it is now. The pressure to move up as fast as possible (whether the desire to be seen as a “real” eventer or to try to make a team), the design of jumps (ground lines, lack of frangible type technology where it would be beneficial), design of courses (placing frangible-tech jumps in ways that make the tech less likely to work, placing fences in areas where shadows make already sketchy ground lines worse), lack of sufficient training or experienced enough jump judges to know when a rider needs to be called in, trainers not stepping up and calling their clients out for dangerous riding as well. Am I missing anything?

Chances are nothing will come of it, but a comprehensive list of the things that are contributing to these deaths, in one place, with potential things people can do NOW to try to help, might be a good idea. I.E., encourage course designers for events near you to put better ground lines on problematic jumps, speak up if you see a friend riding dangerously even if it makes you uncomfortable (brainstorm best ways to speak up too), reinforce the idea whenever you can that riding at a lower level is TOTALLY FINE, etc etc.

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Sometimes I think riding with a coach in eventing gets way too conflated with riding with a coach elsewhere. I absolutely have always had coaches and lately my lessons have been extremely sporadic so competition goals have been limited to Dressage schooling shows for exposure.

Now, I have zero issue getting myself and my horses to shows, warm up and compete without my coach there. Or there but not available. However, that is not something I would attempt with sporadic coaching. If I was having lessons several times a week? Sure I would do it. That is also due to it being burned into my skull as a junior that you show below what you are schooling and it was an old school barn where unless one was jumping 3’6” you stay with the schooling or B and C shows. Exceptions were made for those adults bringing along their green horses of course.

Anyway my long winded point is, I wouldn’t show at a level without my coach until I knew I was proficient and made the decision to move up at the next season. (I’m weird and I don’t like mid season move ups.) I would not move up without my coach there and I wouldn’t go alone say the second or third time out.

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What a generous soul that grey horse is.

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He’s since been sold to a showjumping home with teenager, since they decided he didn’t like XC. I hope he’s doing well in his new home!

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I’m h/j ( for the record). In my area, there is a slew of A show h/j barns, a few mid-level ( but high quality) C Circuit barns. The ones that can afford it, are at the A barns, and because of the cost of this sport, the C barns aren’t cheap either. Plenty of lawyers & Drs kids at the C barn. Both tiers of these h/j barns are quality, in riding, horsemanship, horse care, and cleanliness.

There is 1 upper level event barn. The cost is about the same as the A -h/j barns.

I have noticed that often, kids that are totally horse crazy, but with lesser money to spend in this sport… these are the kids that end up in these backyard, event barns without real, quality training. In my area, anyway, the few lower level barns are subpar, but the trainers think they are all that & a bag of chips.
They tell these kids how great they are, yet leave huge holes in their training. They often buy super cheap, super green horses & these kids “ train” them. These barns lack horsemanship, cleanliness, and quality training. These barns are within the budgets of those that are priced out of other barns.

     These type barns are drawn to eventing because it’s cheaper then the h/j shows.  The horses don’t have to be as fancy.  They can show up at events with horses not “properly “ turned out & all is good.  They can ride by the seat of there pants & win.   Can’t do that as much in the h/j world.  

I totally get that not everyone can afford the fancy, made horse, the nicer barn, the quality lessons. However, these lower level barns are ignorant to safety of horse & rider. The kids ride by the seat of their pants & the horses try to save themselves. It’s scary. & then you Factor in social media & these kids think they are going to be the next big thing. They don’t realize the skills they are lacking.

 We need to educate parents on what to look for in a trainer. We need to educate that money spent on quality lessons is worth the safety of horse & rider.    
 These lower level barns need some help &  guidance.  These kids need these barns, but they need some sort of regulation.   Maybe the usef needs to award “ local “ type barns & trainers with incentives to win horsemanship training & clinics. 

  There needs to be some sort of system to rate trainers & a system that riders need to be be tested prior to moving up

levels.

One lower level event barn in my area, would bring horses in an unsafe to small rusted out trailer to events. The roof had huge rusted out holes in it. The horses would show up under weight & covered in rain rot. They were often lame. They had Ill fitting tack & hooves not properly Cared for. This barn was a mess. The kids were sweet & loved the horses & the sport, but their riding was scary, scary, scary. The scary thing was, they all had no clue that what they were doing was wrong. It was what they could afford & they had no education otherwise.

 This is what I see as part of the problem of eventing.  The lack of education at the lower levels bleeds into the system.  

The h/j -C. barns in this area… are giving the lower level h/j kids a good solid foundation to move up. These kids sometimes move from C to A & it’s an easy transition without a lot of holes in training for the kids to move up.

The sport also needs to be less expensive, but that’s another topic.

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Sure, at Level 1 or 2, but by the time a coach is Level 3(now named High Performance?) poor coaching would not likely get passed. I feel/have experienced the same as you [and I’m typing as a past-L1 coach who let my certification lapse because I was losing too many students to coaches who would let the students progress too fast rather than work on basics and strong equitation)

[QUOTE
So not a fan of mandatory coaching - I do like the idea of compulsary skills testing and a review panel as part of the criteria to move up into the upper levels [/QUOTE]

I agree with you there. But I’m again typing as someone who did her very first Prelim ever sans coach [BUT I was her working student at the time and rode 3-4 horses/day, and it was at a venue I’d been to successfully at Training 3 times that year already], and have done many more since then from Starter up to Prelim without a coach. I still feel able to ride an event on my own if required, but I’m talking BN/Entry, PT/Novice if I really lucked out with a horse capable or already at that level or higher.

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If the coach rides like that, no surprise the rider rode like that.

This is turning out to be a perfect storm of dangerous dysfunction.

So far, we have:

  1. A rider and horse who are unsafe at the level
  2. A certified coach who allows students to be unsafe and perhaps does not know how to ride safely or teach safety
  3. A table jump with confusing visual elements
  4. Officials who don’t penalize obvious dangerous riding
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Thanks for sharing! The physics of a fast close takeoff certainly make sense in causing a rotational fall.
At that particular fence, I thought it was possible dirt pile could encourage a very bold horse/rider to misjudge the takeoff and either pick up early and then try to put down or drop a leg once they assess the actual width. The impulsion then carrying the pair through a rotational fall. But I am far from a cross country expert.

In response to the bolded, if one were a non-eventer looking at some of this rider’s decisions, it would be easy to label Elisa as someone who doesn’t mind pushing/overfacing her horses. I actually think Elisa is a good rider. She can start her own horses, and train them all the way through the 5* level. That’s an accomplishment in itself. It doesn’t change the fact that she’s made some spectacularly bad choices in public. She pushed that poor mustang too far. She pushed Simply Priceless way too hard on cc at Badminton. Maybe she just needed more than one go to decide the mustang couldn’t handle the level, but even a BN rider should be able to recognize an exhausted horse. A 5* rider should unquestionably be able to recognize an exhausted horse. She definitely wouldn’t be my pick to hold up as an example to the rest of the riding world that eventers are better horsemen. She can be sometimes, but she doesn’t choose to be all the time.

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This is an important topic.

Eventers are sometimes/often riders who are priced out of h/j and dressage.

If you can’t afford a well-bred WB, you can probably afford a 3YO or 4YO OTTB.

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I would think that the light gray rail at the bottom of the fence on the ground would be a ground line. ?? without the straw.

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This is really really important I think also.

It is easier to get the UL and “team” in eventing.

It is easier to be competitive in eventing than A circuit or National dressage (not as much now as it used to be, but still true).

I think this attracks a lot of people who don’t spend the money they should on training for themselves and horses.

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I don’t know if this was just my area, but I had people I knew from the H/J come to some of my events because they wanted to check it out. They loved it enough to try it and couldn’t understand why I was jumping lower heights than my former H/J self. Well they tried it and by golly “I’m a 3’6” or 3’9” rider so that’s what I’m going to do.” It was bad. It happened with other friends (their H/J friends coming over) but I only witnessed it once. Thankfully, for the people I knew, once was all it took for them to get coaching.

These people were looking for cheaper shows when the economy tanked. Liked not having to pay through the nose for training at shows between coaching and training rides etc. I’m glad they smartened up but man that one time…
@Puffergrrl not picking on you, and I’m glad you joined the conversation as an outsider, but this story is why people who show in the working hunters or are elite show jumpers can’t be compared by jump height. It’s one thing to cruise around a GP ring or make a working hunter course look flawless. It’s totally different jumping similar heights and smaller heights over terrain with solid fences, who’s ground lines as you pointed out in the pictures, can be deceiving. It’s a different skill set. Neither is better.

My old coaches daughter would go for weeks at a time to ride with Greg Best before he moved to MA (he retired from the school I believe) to get show jumping experience. The good thoughtful riders I know eventually end up riding with three coaches.

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Another point about Canada…

In Canada, it can be easy to picture yourself as an ‘international’ or ‘elite’ athlete in a sport with relatively low participation and funding. If there aren’t many people in the sport, you don’t have to face a lot of competition moving up to the elite levels. Of course, once you go outside the Tim Hortons bubble, you might get your clock cleaned. But you can still call yourself an international athlete.

A few sports get all the money in Canada. Hockey, cycling, rowing, winter sports (some), all get generous funding. Other sports get $0.

A sport with $0 in funding, little infrastructure and relatively low participation can be an easier sport to dream that you can be on the national team.

Equestrian sports do get funding but IIRC, most goes to showjumping.

At the high performance level, there just aren’t that many eventers. If you can get a horse to Advanced, you have a shot at the team.

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I just watched some video. That young woman had no business on a UL course and that horse had no business on a XC course of any level. Together they were a travesty and it should have been clear as day to any educated observer how this was going to end. That our officials gave that type a riding a pass on multiple occasions has completely destroyed my faith in the officiating of this sport. This is unacceptable.

There is no amount of safety technology or improved course design that can make up for officials not doing their basic job. And yes, the most basic job of an official is to stop dangerous riding.

No amount a paper work can legally protect you from gross negligence. And any officials out there who saw this shit show and let it slide? You failed her, you failed this sport and you failed yourself. I hope you can’t sleep at night. I hope people get sued out of existence.

I am furious. This should have never happened.

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This is what I do, but it happened because there were no eventing coaches close to me. I have an FEI dressage coach and a jumper coach who shows GP. I really think it helps. My issue is getting help with the XC.

@JER so true. I see riders posting they are FEI riders and coaches and sure they showed FEI, were eliminated, or came dead last in dressage, stops and time XC and multiple rails in SJ but hey they can call themselves an FEI eventer, and that is just plain scary.

@subk sadly agree.

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This! Subk I’m one of the least knowledgeable compared to you and others and oh man did I send that video off to my horse’s rider and told them “showing her isn’t about ribbons, it’s about exposure. Put in a ride like this at any level and you won’t be riding.”

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I don’t agree the officials should get sued out of existence. We are talking (right now) specifically about an adult, who chose to participate in a dangerous sport, and signed a release waiving all her rights.

The officials have duties and responsibilities. But right now, those do not include “fence-by-fence analysis of each rider and pulling them off course or giving a yellow card if they look dangerous” (a subjective analysis) with equal application to each rider.

If we, as a sport, want this, then we pay up. Pay for more officials that have this specific job duty, and for the insurance covering them, since we have shifted the risk from ourselves to someone else. Pay for video analysis, pay for additional officials to manage the slew of protests that will occur when people miss their qualifying rounds.

That is an acceptable price for preventing deaths - I don’t mind. But it’s just not the system that we have right now.

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The title needs to be changed. It’s another ride AND HORSE death.
That poor horse was ridden to her death by human ambition and ego.

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I agree with you on this point. A lady in my hometown was involved in a cross country wreck in the 90s and subsequently sued the event organizers and basically everyone involved with event. Although she was relatively unsuccessful for a number of reasons, this action had a far-reaching and long lasting effect on equestrian activities in my community and nearby communities. It essentially killed eventing and has strongly changed people’s opinions on hosting any equestrian event - especially on their own property. 25 years later, people are still hesitant to take the risk.

I would hate to see people refusing to host, organize or volunteer at events because the personal liability risk is too great.

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