Look
Put some shoes on. Go back on gastrogard.
40 Likes
If he were mine, I’d absolutely insist on putting shoes on him before anything else. Many horses really dont do well barefoot, or at least take a very long time to be able to cope with working barefoot.
I’d take a hard look at what you are feeding him, maybe wean him off the alfalfa because whilst yes, its good for ulcers it can be too much for some horses ( I have one like that. Loses his brains on alfalfa.) And I’d have him on as much grass hay as he can eat. I’d take him off all grain and use timothy pellets and rice bran as a carrier for any meds you are giving him. He might lose some weight and top line, but if he regains his composure, you have a baseline to start adding to.
If the gastrogard was working, look at a generic omeprozole. Its not as effective as GG, but it is effective. Look at some kind of cheap and easy tummy buffer like Aloe vera or Redmond clay.
9 Likes
I’ve had two horses react in some similar manner to this due to alfalfa. Took them both off alfalfa, issues solved. It’s worth a try. Call it “feed intolerance” or “allergy”. Good luck.
8 Likes
Maybe shoes + pads - sometimes they are just mildly funky without the pad. Pull the alfalfa, add in soaked cubes or beet pulp of you want to but not of the alfalfa.
You didnt mention anything about how you ride him, what balance he is in, what exercises you are doing, etc. That would be helpful so see to evaluate if its a training issue.
4 Likes
I recently had a similar experience, although I’d owned the horse for a couple years but a series of events resulted in a previously cuddly, snuggly, affectionate and friendly horse turning into a shark when being touched.
Long story short: his feet hurt, which made his back hurt, which made his hind end hurt, which made his gut hurt, which made him pissed off.
What has made helped so far: get the feet comfy. We did the Succeed Challenge, that made a big difference in his gut comfort. Didn’t do GG because he was negative on a scope, so we assumed hindgut. My DVM also prescribed some traditional Chinese herbal medicine, which may or may not have helped. It hasn’t hurt!
If you can, find a new hoof care professional, or have a frank conversation with your current one. Why are they insisting on barefoot? Do you have any hoof boots? Does your HCP do composite shoes? I am a huge proponent of barefoot, and keep my horses either barefoot or in composites–but that also requires a TON of work in terms of diet, exercise, having boots available, etc. Many horses go from doing ok totally barefoot over the winter/early spring to very sore and resentful as the ground hardens. They shed sole and it takes time to build back up–and sometimes you end up in a really vicious cycle of bruising and inflammation where you can’t build any sole without providing hoof protection.
At a minimum, you need boots. Ideally, you’d have some padded boots on 24/7 or you’d do some glue on composites. Realistically, these can be expensive (glue ons) and time consuming (boots), so I wouldn’t fault you at all for just doing shoes. If going this route I’d encourage you to explore shoes with frog support (like a keg shoe plus Derek poupard’s 3D pads) as that will help the whole foot function better. Do this ASAP, then target the gut. If you can rescope, do that. If the scope is negative, presume hindgut and treat (I like Succeed but there are other options). If it’s positive, treat and see where it gets you.
Good luck, I know how tough this is. It’s taken about 7 months but my horse is just about back to normal.
9 Likes
I know you said you had a professional saddle fitter out - were they a brand rep or independent?
2 Likes
What everyone else said and learn how to lunge in side reins.
Do not consider getting on until he is foot perfect, 100%, on the lunge, no matter what the rail birds say.
7 Likes
I know I say this alot, but get C5-7 X-rayed. Thoroughbreds are the big one.
My horse’s symptoms were similar: some days good, other days a giraffe, lame, sound, ulcers, ulcer symptoms with no ulcers, DO NOT TOUCH ME all the time. Feeling like the only direction you are headed was backwards.
Don’t do what I did, and spend six years throwing money at symptoms.
11 Likes
This describes my horse to a T.
1 Like
@Ridethroughit23 I’m sorry to hear you’re going through all this. I would take him to a specialist and have him thoroughly evaluated for a lameness exam and by a neurologist …there could be many things causing these issues …pssm2 could be something to pursue but it wouldn’t be high up on the list …but essentially you treat them with a low sugar/starch and high fat/fiber diet which it sounds like you already somewhat are with the TC Senior. I would pull blood for Lyme , epm and vitamin e levels …get his neck and back checked out …ulcers certainly can cause them some of these symptoms but I don’t think to the extent you’re describing…Lyme can cause hyperesthesia -increased sensitivity to being touched …as can some of the neurologic disorders such as EDM which can cause erratic behavior, aggressiveness , increased sensitivity to stimuli.
Neck issues such as cervical arthritis, wobblers (stenosis/narrowing of the spinal column) lesions etc can cause pain and some horses can be very reactive ) …same with the back - KS - some can be super reactive -not always though.
I would not ride him until you figure out what’s going on …it’s not worth it …it’s causing you and him both a lot of stress.
For the ulcers …Equine Elixirs Ulceraser along with their Sea Buckthorn has been documented to help many tough ulcer cases that werent responding to Gastroguard/Misoprostyl/Sucralfate
Also Succeed Veterinary Formula is great too …and I like giving Purina Outlast daily I’m with the feed.
3 Likes
I don’t disagree with the see if alfalfa is a factor. Here I have a couple of horses who like on Visceral and it makes a huge difference to their gut health. I will say reading your first post my first question was what is his turnout situation and how does it differ to his let down period. A lot of tbs I know are pretty particular about turnout and while I have acclimated many to 24/7 with a friend in a field with grass/ hay constantly none immediately took to it.
Worth experimenting for sure.
1 Like
Please have your horse scoped for ulcers. I dealt with similar behavior (though not quite so severe). Finally got him scoped.He had many ulcers, one almost bleeding. It was expensive to treat but amazing changes in the horse.
So…why exactly do you want this horse barefoot?
This is where I would start. “Never taken a lame step” might be because the horse is equally uncomfortable on all 4 feet.
FYI I own this horse. She is fully retired 28 and still wears full shoes and pads 24/7/365. She is a sensitive TB - thin soles, think skin.
18 Likes
Definitely going to do the shoes. The problem is he had all of these symptoms as soon as I got him, before the shoe change and before the alfalfa. Obviously willing to try changing those things to see but I don’t think they’re the only answer
6 Likes
It sounds like he’s a lovely horse when he’s a lovely horse.
If you have the means and you’re in a location convenient enough to do so, I’d take him to a university vet school and just go ahead and get a complete work up done on him—the works. You’re more likely to get timely answers, and it will probably cost much less than the symptom chasing you will be doing with your local vet.
I wish you the best. You are in a tough spot.
1 Like
Mayyyybeee… going on a limb here… he was on some sort of “pain relief” at the sale barn. Something like a muscle relaxer (Robaxin) or even Devil’s Claw or Bute or ???
This really sucks, I am sorry for you!
He’s gone from ~12 hr turnout to 24/7 - is he sleeping?? Does he feel safe with his fence mates? Or safe where he’s “living”? Maybe put a pile of shavings in his turnout for him to lie in, see what happens?
Some horses really do like their stall.
And, while I absolutely will not dismiss pain issues, he is only 4. If he’d been restarted for a year when you got him, that means he came off the track at 3. He’s still very much a baby. It’s “all business” at the track, it may well have been “all business” at the barn you got him from, and like kids - they figure out when and around whom they need to mind their P’s and Q’s and when they can test the limits.
Being turned out alone, he’s a young boy. He may need the play time and possibly the security of a herd mate.
Just throwing out thoughts.
10 Likes
I would add the Gastroguard back. It sounds like he was better until you stopped that. I bet his ulcers are back.
1 Like
Have you tried letting him have a free romp in the arena before messing with him? My ottb mare can get very witchy when she is not worked. She is out 24/7 but solo so she never really “plays”. She is much more pleasant when she has a chance to get the bad energy out.
Practically, I think you definitely need to do atleast front shoes, remove the alfalfa, remove the flax (I get insane stomach pains from the smallest amount of flax so I don’t it is as benign as everyone thinks it is!). I would add Redmond’s daily gold or another hindgut support supplement.
& yes ottbs are very sensitive and will definitely pick up on it if you are timid, nervous, etc. I had to do some work on my self also.
ETA: I feel for you. Some ottbs seem to have zero issues adjusting but some are just more challenging than others. I tottaly get as an amateur just wanting to show up and ride your horse without all the drama. I think you need to adjust your expectations or make the decision to sell. Sometimes it just takes time and lots of remedial work. The horse is only 4 and has already lived a handful of lives.
2 Likes
Do a Lyme test. It’s relatively easy and inexpensive to do, and at the very least you’ll be able to rule it out.
Or maybe it will turn out to be Lyme.
The personality change and the extreme reactions to touch and brushing can both be symptoms of Lyme.
Good luck.
6 Likes
