Anyone deal with a chronically mouthy horse?

[AMWookey]

I am not willing to call him a biter or a nipper. Okay maybe a nipper. He is a mouthy little brat though. From what we know he was gelded later (5) after limited handling then went to a barn where they always have a couple horses for flipping.

They got him going under saddle quickly, then he had a massive injury. He has had a weird past buy from what I understand because he wasn’t a Jerk, his nipping was just let go. In fact when I bought him they said “he will never be a cuddly horse, he does nip and he is a performance athlete and has the personality to match”

A quick run down of what we have done because everyone always wants this info:

1. 3 mths of professional work on the ground because he had no concept of humans aren’t horses. This was not done by me, I was not around him when it was happened. It was followed by close to 2 months of ground lessons with the trainer. Major improvements. I wouldn’t even own the horse now if it wasn’t for that.

2. He isn’t hand fed

3. He isn’t allowed in your space and he is typically handled with a chain to reinforce that, but 9 times out of 10 he does NOT need the chain. He does get regular ground work tune ups. Both with me and my coach who is brilliant.

4. Some people will say “just smack him hard/bite him”. Flame suit on - we have tried this. I have tried the elbow on, crop on hand, you bite me, I bite you back. He doesn’t flinch. And then comes back for more.

Now. He will pick up his feed bowl and carry it around. He likes to walk himself with his lead rope, he grabs his polos, the cross ties, whips, the stirrup when you are trying to mount up. He pulls on the blanket. Basically he is a giant annoying dog.

When he is mouthy with you, he never has his ears back, never snakes out to bite. He doesn’t get skin and if he does then he reacts like you beat him even if you haven’t reacted yet. Then he is good for a couple days. Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t condone the behavior, I don’t think it’s cute, but there is a difference between ears back snaked out to hurt you and a mouthy turd head like my dude.

I am blessed at my barn to be surrounded by really incredible horse woman with years of experience. 2 great coaches, a great farrier. All with years of working with difficult horses. My dude isn’t easy but he also isn’t a difficult dangerous horse (I will caveat that with anymore. He was at one point) and he is one of the barn favorite. I just wish I didn’t have to warn people that he nips, or that I could get someone to go change his blanket for me while I am away, and not have to worry.

Has anyone dealt with this? I love this horse. I never thought I would. I want to repeat that the behaviour isn’t ideal, but he is better then those crabby ponies who would try and take a chunky out of you when you are doing up their girth. He is just an annoying little bugger.

[brody]

Yes. I have a mouthy enough guy that I warn strangers to stand back. Similar to your guy there is no malice in it but it irritates me. He loves puffy coats.
He is usually better if I can get to him and give him positive attention before the nipping starts. The only times it really annoys me is doing blanket changes in the stall or field and when the other horses are getting massage or chiro as he misses out. The other horses get annoyed by his contestant mouthing too. He spent way too long on the track and h as has no concept of being an adult horse.

[AMWookey]

[QUOTE=brody;8567966]
Yes. I have a mouthy enough guy that I warn strangers to stand back. Similar to your guy there is no malice in it but it irritates me. He loves puffy coats.
He is usually better if I can get to him and give him positive attention before the nipping starts. The only times it really annoys me is doing blanket changes in the stall or field and when the other horses are getting massage or chiro as he misses out. The other horses get annoyed by his contestant mouthing too. He spent way too long on the track and h as has no concept of being an adult horse.[/QUOTE]

That sounds exactly like him. As long as you are there paying attention he is fine. Although now that you mention it he is way better when I am not rushing and have time for some attention around his face first. Or attention in general. I clipped him for 3 hours and he didn’t nip once. Just hung out. Food for thought!

[Abbie.S]

Yes. The Morgan I have in training is chronically mouthy.

For him, it gets worse with anxiety. It’s usually a manifestation of impatience: he’ll chew on the crosstie, the lunge line, etc. If you aren’t paying attention to him, he gets worse.

We do the same thing: he is not allowed in my space, we do hand feed him but you literally shove the food towards his mouth with a flat hand and he’s fine. Most of the time I ignore it, if he’s not looking to actually bite me, I pretend he’s not even there. Responding to the behavior usually only amplifies the anxiety, which makes the bleeding worse. When he does go to try and make contact with me, I just happen to have my hand or elbow there, so that he thinks he ran into me, verses me hitting him. But otherwise I don’t even recognize that I hit him, I let him figure it out and continue about my business.

I found the behavior gets worse the more you pay attention to it and the more you discipline him. As long as he’s not going after me, I just ignore him.

[Jim_R]

Got one exactly like that. Wants everything in his mouth except the bit, that takes about a half a minute for him to open up. Born and raised here,so not because of his history. Nothing mean about him and never hurt anybody but everything he wants his mouth on. He is 11 now and we can put polos on him now so he can wear them into the awards ceremony now without him trying to rip them off.
I have handled and trained plenty of stallions with all kinds of issues and have been successful with them, just have a goofy gelding that seems like he will not change.
He is so successful in the show ring we just kind of laugh at his one goofy fault.
If I grab an ear or his nose he just melts and is perfect for braiding. I am practically just laying my hand on his ear or grabbing his nose as lightly as you can. He just wants attention and somebody holding him. He is an entertaining 17.1 goofy horse on the ground. Perfect under saddle.

[SmartAlex]

I’ve had mouthy horses who were the equine equivalent of a groper. They just had to touch you. I let it go. Now and then it gets out of hand and I’ll let them know I’m at the end of my rope for the day and they generally lay off.

[gumtree]

The first thing I thought when I read the title. He was gelded late.

“From what we know he was gelded later (5)”

From my experience as a TB breeder and working with colts that are gelded a bit later in life. Being “mouthy” is part of colt behavior among other things.

Some are like yours not really mean about it just a PITA. Others can be much more physical. Some, especially older ones can go at you with “intention”.

If you watch young colts, weanlings, yearlings, and 2 year old colts that are turned out together. A good part of their playing, interacting, sorting out pecking order etc involves “biting” at each other while doing the “chesty” play.

This can become ingrained with horses that are gelded at an older age. I don’t think there is anything/training that will stop them.

TB breeders/owners don’t geld young as a rule. We wait and see if they have any real racing ability. Any TBs that are gelded as a yearlings is almost always because they have a real temperament issue. The same for 2 year olds by and large depending on pedigree and the owner/breeders intentions/goals.

A gelded TB yearling that is being offered for sale will not be worth as much in most cases. You will rarely see a gelded yearling being offered at auction. No mater how much of an SOB he is. Unless there was a medical issue that warranted the need.

I have found that gelding at 3 reduces and or eliminates their mouthy issue several months after the fact.

Never done any at 4. Have gelded a few at 5-6. At that point it made little to no difference. But they were moved on so I don’t know if things changed a few years later.

There seems to be a study just about everything on horses. Maybe there’s one out there on this.

The above is just my observations and experience. But I do with a lot from birth and up. Others may feel differently.

[khall]

I too have a mouthy horse, a gelding I bred and raised. He is a punk that I have learned to deal with over the years. Working him in hand was NOT FUN initially. Wacking usually does not get you anywhere. Keep your space and when I work in hand I use the outside rein to control his head and neck. Finally now at 10 he is getting better but he is not for everyone! At 1400 lbs + and 16.2 hh not a horse most AA would be able to handle. If needed I do not hesitate to throw a chain on him to put him in his place. Sigh why I really prefer mares!

He was not gelded late, it is in his bloodlines from sire side.

[Alexie]

Yes, mine was gelded at two, not that late I think. He’s just got a brain that never stops and he wants to be included in everything. He pushes it too far occasionally and I lose it with him, he doesn’t care. Well, he quits for five minutes. He’s adorable, and annoying. But worth the effort.

[IPEsq]

Mine is just like this. He also has no boundaries with other horses, and it’s hard to find him pasture buddies. He doesn’t bite to leave marks. He is never mean. He just has to be in everyone’s space all the time and needs a pacifier. I haven’t figured it out. He is an anxious horse, so I generally try to work on reducing his anxiety about life, but sometime he is just being playful/obnoxious and if you (or another horse) corrects him, that’s good for maybe a whole 10 seconds.

[Pocket_Pony]

Yes, my mustang is like that. He’s not going to come at you with ears pinned and a gaping mouth ready to take a bite out of you, but he’s not nice, either. I can give him some cuddles if he’s in the mood, but I tell other people to stay away from him. He doesn’t get hand treats unless it is when I’m mounting - once I get in the saddle, he gets one cookie to stretch to each side and that’s it. After riding, his treats go in his bucket.

Unfortunately, because I don’t like to be this way, the smackdown does work well for him. If he is being nippy, I get after him and then everything is fine. By get after him I mean I’ll probably yell at him to knock it off or I’ll smack him, or if there’s room I’ll make him back up or move his feet to get out of my space. After that, all is good. He’s the herd leader of my three, but I think he’s actually a bit insecure and appreciates me having a strong leadership attitude.

[snaffled]

My gelding was mouthy when I got him at 3. He hadn’t been handled too much at that point, mostly lived out with a herd of 3 young mares. He would nip at your shoulder when walking him, sometimes with teeth sometimes just his lips but he was trying to get me to react, it was a game for him. I’d correct him but it wouldn’t stop him, he wanted me to basically tag him back and then it was his turn to tag me!

I was just casually mentioning it to my farrier one day and he said he’d had a horse like that where they would watch closely out of the corner of their eye and correct when it looked like he was going to nip at you, before it actually happened. I tried this with my gelding and it worked, the game isn’t as fun if he doesn’t get to be the one to start it.

He’s still a bit mouthy but now he just plucks at my shoulder with his lips or licks me if I’m in his space. Doesn’t really bother me because he will stop if I say I’ve had enough.

[Woodsperson]

I have one like this and he was gelded late -of course. He is very well trained and behaved in every other way, not pushy at all. He’s just mouthy and will nip if you are not careful. I think it is sometimes a ploy for attention. He is also much worse if his ulcers have re-emerged. I don’t have any magic cure for this.

The thing I can’t get over is people that ignore me when I tell them to leave him alone-he bites. They will insist on getting up in his face even when I tell them to back off or they just must hand feed him a treat. No just don’t

[Gainer]

I have one…he was gelded as a weanling, but had a serious injury shortly afterwards. He was on stall rest for over a year. We played with him a lot in the stall to keep him occupied…he’s very smart.

To this day (he’s now 20 y.o.) he’s mouthy. Never bites or nips, just plays around with whatever he can get hold of. He’ll steal the hat off your head or tug on the zipper/button of your jacket. Or he’ll wiggle his nose in your ponytail or bun.

It’s all pretty harmless and he does understand when I tell him to stop. He just likes messing around with people more than other horses.

[theresak]

My horse can be like this, especially when he was young.

I sprayed the fronts of his blankets and the cross ties where he liked to chew with Rap Last. I never hand fed him until he was well over the grabbing at hands stage. I never leg him chew on his lead rope, the reins, my foot/stirrup, etc. When I was around him, the only thing allowed in his mouth was the bit.

If he bit me or anything I was wearing, more than getting smacked he was driven out of my space by quite a margin. We’d go flying back down the aisle or into the corner of his stall.

Now at almost 13, I can relax around him a lot more, but it took about 5 very consistent years starting around 2.5/3 years old before I could relax. When he gets very physically over stimulated (during a massage and chiropractic adjustment almost exclusively), I will give him the lead rope to chew on. He grinds it between his molars I think to relieve stress.

I am able to clicker train him now with treats, but that is one place I still have to be careful - I always give him the treat when his neck is straight and he’s not diving for the treat.

He is still a very oral horse and plays with the other horses by biting, he’ll pick up sticks and carry them around the pasture, and every once in a while he still grabs the front of his blanket to try and play tug with other horses.

[stb]

I have a mouthy one. He doesn’t bite or even nip, but he does want to put his lips on you or your clothes if you let him. He also bites and chews on his lead rope when he’s tied to the trailer unless he has hay in front of him. If he has hay, he’s good. He will try to open his door, play with the cross-ties, and generally put his mouth on everything that he can reach. It is a PITA but as I said, he has never nipped, so I just generally ignore his chewiness and I don’t allow him to put his lips on me.

He was gelded at 9 years old. Go figure.

[IPEsq]

@snaffled;8568414

My gelding was mouthy when I got him at 3. He hadn’t been handled too much at that point, mostly lived out with a herd of 3 young mares. He would nip at your shoulder when walking him, sometimes with teeth sometimes just his lips but he was trying to get me to react, it was a game for him. I’d correct him but it wouldn’t stop him, he wanted me to basically tag him back and then it was his turn to tag me!

I had to separate my horse from a potential turnout buddy who he played halter tag with non stop. Neither of them had a reset button where they could just stop and go eat or nap for a while. And the other one would bite to leave marks. I find myself often yelling at mine, “I AM NOT A GELDING! I DO NOT PLAY GELDING GAMES!”

[Gestalt]

I had a horse gelded at 4, best horse ever, no problems. Another gelded as a weanling, Mr Mouthy. It was in his nature to touch EVERYTHING with his lips! He carried his lead rope, buckets, blankets, etc. When he was bored he would try to nip me or if I was out of his reach he would bang a hoof on anything handy to make noise. He was annoying.

[AMWookey]

Thanks everyone. You made me feel a lot better.

He used to be a wholly terror. It started with a rear the cracked open my skull (that is when he went into professional trg) and up til last July, he was still a pushy, opinionated Jerk who would run over you (only did it twice but not for lack of trying), couldn’t bridle, couldn’t leave on the cross ties, helmet, whip and chain to bring him in.

I figured out that consistency in his under saddle work was key to everything else. He came to a much busy barn and I found myself taking his temperature I was so sure he must be sick by how good he was. He now can ground tie to tack up, sleeps on the cross ties while we are getting ready/drying off after a ride. He let me clip him for 3 hours, and generally he is a total goofball with a fantastic personality.

I have found that paying attention to him, giving him something to think about and I goring the rest works best, but I constantly get the “you just need to smash him good once”, not so much by the people at the barn I turn to for advice, but everyone else. It just doesn’t work. So I am going to keep going with what does and just ignore the smash him good crowd.

[RedmondDressage]

OMG so I’m not alone??? My 5 y.o. is exactly the same. He is sweet as pie but EVERYTHING MUST GO IN HIS MOUTH. Reins, whip, arena bark, jacket, ponytail (the last tow get him in big trouble)… The other day I caught him swinging a stick around at his best buddy in the pasture :lol: There is no malice whatsoever, he’s just funny and curious and really can’t help himself. The majority of the time I ignore it. It’s just who he is and it’s mostly amusing… The only time he gets in trouble is if he tries to nip people/clothing, and on the occasional times he does that he gets in BIG trouble.