Anyone deal with a chronically mouthy horse?

I didn’t read thoroughly, but I bet nobody mentioned TTEAM-type massage. With my current mouthy horse, when he gets obnoxious, I massage his gums and the insides of his cheeks and lips. He seems to think it feels really strange, but his mouth is much quieter afterward and he seems thoughtful. Best part is, it dramatically cuts back on the mouthiness for weeks afterward. When he starts to get mouthy, I do it again.

He still grabs the reins every time I bridle him though, so he uses the crappy old bridle that looks like it’s been through a war. The two nice ones stay well away from him!

I don’t dare leave my fingers under horse’s lips long enough to massage his gums. He does like the game of me giving his gums a quick rub to which he puts his lip up in the air, but it only makes him come back for more.

My first Thoroughbred was a biter from the day he was born. He was a little dark foal but earned the name of Damien as a barn name from day one (remember the child in The Omen?).

I loved that horse, but he bit, struck and reared regularly. He was corrected in all the traditional ways and the behavior diminished as he grew a bit older (he died young due to Wobblers) but that was always his first response to anything.

I have a wee young mini colt who is not quite two. He’s a biter, but that will stop when he’s gelded, I’m sure of that. He just doesn’t know what to do with himself. I correct him (a growl or a vocal admonishment is enough), but he comes back for more when he can’t help himself. As soon as he drops that other testicle the appointment will be made. :wink:

My gelding is similarly obnoxious (along with other issues). I am actually having his hormone levels checked to make sure that there is nothing out of balance, and am also going to try some supplements to see if anything makes a difference, as his holistic vet thinks the issue might be rooted in anxiety. Everything goes in his mouth. It’s a behavior that has improved somewhat over time, but I am constantly correcting him.

I knew a gelding a few years back at another barn who was immature and mouthy. They kept him on 10mL of regumate daily - it’s not an option I want to deal with at this point, but has anyone else had experience with this? It did seem to improve his behavior in the crossties.

Crackerjack is like that. We have all the names for him, Ricky the Carnivorous Pony, Rotten Pony, Jerk, Butthead and some more. Also gelded late and supposedly he spent a goodly amount of time on the porch eating with the family dogs as a yearling.
Boot Camp at my trainer’s helped a lot, wet saddle blankets, learning how to get the best use out of a chain. He’s not hateful, but no I don’t play gelding games either darn it! And he’s a terrific pig so leading him up to eat can get your arm dislocated, or take two hours making him walk away etc. I would like actually, to teach him some of those tricks like picking up a hat or a bucket and get some use out of his mouthiness, but so far he is still too much “you can’t make me!”.

well my mare is mouthy, so obviously it has nothing to do with being gelded late. there is no malice at all. she is simply curious about everything and putting her mouth on things is a way of investigating objects. as long as she respects my space, i don’t correct her for picking things up. she used to “air nip” at me, trying to see how far she could get, but i let her know straight up that she better put that thought away. i never hit. i make her move her feet backwards, and fast.

I guess I would try giving him things to chew on. We have a gelding who is lippy. Never was a biter, but likes to lip you when you work around him. His mother was the same. Just wanted to mouth things when standing around to be saddled or harnessed, used for a demo. Give her a chain lead and she would just put it in her mouth to move around. Stood like a rock for HOURS if I needed that with Driving her or doing various demonstrations with her, but she NEEDED something to do with her mouth to keep from fidgeting with other body parts like legs.

I think since both these two were mouthed with a bit as young horses before getting trained, they decided they liked mouth things like kids do when chewing gum. None of our other horses going thru this training have ever kept up the chewing after. Those two did NOT chew bit excessively when working, performing, during rides, just when standing, waiting around for the next thing we needed to perform. Both were and are, soft to the hand, give and take as asked for collection or going long.

Perhaps for this horse, you could just pop a kindly, flexible bit and headstall on him for times he needs to stand and behave well, keeping his lips to himself. We mouth the young horses by letting them wear a bit during meals, while in their stalls, tied up for learning patience, so horse can learn to manage this bit and get comfortable wearing bit for long times. They can eat wearing it, drink, and eventually, they learn to QUIT chewing it while wearing it. Getting the bit on is no-big-deal anymore, not worth being excited about it. Their jaws get tired!

Your horse might like this addition to his headgear, playing with it instead of doing “stupid gelding tricks” if bored with you working on him. Adding some dried fruit to the mouthpiece helps make horse MUCH easier to bridle, he opens mouth like a baby bird for such a treat after a few reward like that! Fruit lasts about 15 minutes here, may give him red or colored saliva, but they do like the flavor. Fruit Roll-ups, Fruit by the Foot, both are thin, wrap well on the mouthpiece, then squeezed tight to last a bit longer before bridling him.

Some horses it is just easier to work with them, because them acting out in OTHER WAYS is not a good idea. Getting after them then will cause problems. The mother horse had a loose-jaw bit, so she could lift and drop the mouthpiece while standing still. She was happy, stood like a statue when asked. Just was a little sound, clink, clink every couple seconds. So much nicer than dancing in place, pawing, throwing her head as second choices for the need to move. Her son wears her old bit, acts equally as well playing with his bit when standing quietly.

You want to be running the partnership, so GIVE him something to play with, enjoy the benefits of his attention focus there instead of the poor behavior. Second son of above mare has never wanted to mouth anything. He stands quietly and needs no “gum” type toy to keep his mouth busy. They are what they are. Some bit clinking is easy to live with if horse will behave standing with that bit.

We use ring sided bits for the mouthing/bitting of our young horses, most often a French Link mouth because it moves easily over the tongue. Horse can manipulate that mouthpiece for his needs of drinking, chewing food, get his tongue over and back under while wearing it. Bit is not real tight up in the mouth, horse can lift and drop the mouthpiece as he pleases while wearing it.

None of the punishment ideas work very well once horse looks at the lippy, nippy thing as a game. Distract him with a chew-toy and BOTH of you are a lot happier. Have you tried the Jolly Ball for an outside toy? Some horses love playing with it.

[QUOTE=maunder;8568933]
I have a wee young mini colt who is not quite two. He’s a biter, but that will stop when he’s gelded, I’m sure of that. He just doesn’t know what to do with himself. I correct him (a growl or a vocal admonishment is enough), but he comes back for more when he can’t help himself. As soon as he drops that other testicle the appointment will be made. ;)[/QUOTE]

I would think biting and chewing as fairly normal on a young male horse, gelded or not, that seems to happen. However with him going on two, you may want to go after the testicle instead of waiting while he acts even more stallion-like. You may or may not know that a number of Minis do NOT drop with time. They need the surgery to be gelded, Dr. does the hunting for hidden testicle. Make sure Dr. is careful, looks hard, finds ALL the testicles to get them removed. I have now heard of several Minis with three testicles!! They needed surgery to be fully gelded. All were “just” Minis, no special breeding or even papered. No way to check their sires for the same issues. But the issues with Minis are getting discussed more often now, so the gelding problems have come out, along with poor teeth, too big or too many teeth to fit in their skull at maturity. Both are genetic issues.

At least educate yourself about the gelding issues, easier to do younger than wait to do him later after behavior issues ingrained.

I have a younger (5) year old gelding.

Super mouthy. Will bite. He got me a few days ago. He’s also an aggressive kicker. Not fun.

Had the vet out to check his hormones. Made sure he was a cryptorchid, since he thinks he’s a stallion ;))

Im hoping to get my vet out in the next week to start this horse on depo to deal with this.

I believe this horse was gelded late as well. Also came out of a weird situation before I got him.

I hope his extra testosterone will level out eventually :smiley:

Yes and yes. It is just begging for attention or “my tummy hurts,” in my 2, not saying it should be dismissed just do try and see if ruling out ulcers or other physical pain, offering some positive attention and toys it is acceptable to mouth on offer him an alternative to people help since it really does seem to be more “playful” than “disrespectful”. Absolutely is a correlation to the need to play/interact or physical pain and mouthiness.

My one horse had on several occasions taken my underwire bra and flipped it. Mouthy yes, malicious never. My current horse can be too mouthy as in nippy. However, age has helped a great deal with that.

I had a gelding like this. He was mouthy mouthy mouthy ALL of the time!

I tried smacking him every time he bit and it pretty much turned it into a game for him (I equate it to punching a guy in the arm and having the guy want to escalate it into a punching game). I tried ignoring it but that didn’t work much better…although, like your guy, he was never malicious about it.

I finally figured out that with my guy I just had to make it uncomfortable to bite. In other words, THE BITE had to not give him gratification (as opposed to getting the gratification and then getting smacked). So I started poking him in the gums every time he tried to bite. After years of the nipping behavior the poking stopped it almost immediately. And not only did he stop trying to nip, but it even changed his behavior to the point that I could handle his muzzle without even the slightest twitch of the lip. I never poked him (or tried) if I missed the opportunity to do it while he was in the act of trying to get me, and I tried to be as consistent about it as I could possibly be.

[QUOTE=Alexie;8568281]
Yes, mine was gelded at two, not that late I think. He’s just got a brain that never stops and he wants to be included in everything. He pushes it too far occasionally and I lose it with him, he doesn’t care. Well, he quits for five minutes. He’s adorable, and annoying. But worth the effort.[/QUOTE]

I have a 4 1/2 year old like this. Geez, I was hoping he would grow out of it :lol:.

[QUOTE=goodhors;8569461]
I would think biting and chewing as fairly normal on a young male horse, gelded or not, that seems to happen. However with him going on two, you may want to go after the testicle instead of waiting while he acts even more stallion-like. You may or may not know that a number of Minis do NOT drop with time. They need the surgery to be gelded, Dr. does the hunting for hidden testicle. Make sure Dr. is careful, looks hard, finds ALL the testicles to get them removed. I have now heard of several Minis with three testicles!! They needed surgery to be fully gelded. All were “just” Minis, no special breeding or even papered. No way to check their sires for the same issues. But the issues with Minis are getting discussed more often now, so the gelding problems have come out, along with poor teeth, too big or too many teeth to fit in their skull at maturity. Both are genetic issues.

At least educate yourself about the gelding issues, easier to do younger than wait to do him later after behavior issues ingrained.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I am aware of these issues with minis.

This little horse came to me in mid-December and has not had the best of nutrition. Never saw a vet before he came to me. My vets believe that his lack of testicular development is due to the reduced care he received. He is stunted in other ways as well. We are monitoring his condition and don’t believe that there are any issues with his development other than what kept him from maturing at a normal rate. His behavior is actually welcome to me, because it says that he is finally feeling better and acting like the young horse he is.

Never fear…I will do what is best for him. An examination had already been scheduled for later this month.

[QUOTE=maunder;8569751]
Thank you. I am aware of these issues with minis.

1This little horse came to me in mid-December and has not had the best of nutrition. Never saw a vet before he came to me. My vets believe that his lack of testicular development is due to the reduced care he received. He is stunted in other ways as well. We are monitoring his condition and don’t believe that there are any issues with his development other than what kept him from maturing at a normal rate. His behavior is actually welcome to me, because it says that he is finally feeling better and acting like the young horse he is.

Never fear…I will do what is best for him. An examination had already been scheduled for later this month.[/QUOTE]

Glad to hear you are on top of his situation. Good that he has landed in such a nice place.

My 15 year old mare was an orphaned foal and she does tend to explore with her mouth more than other horses. This is mostly demonstrated by playing with my clothes (flipping my shirt collar, zipping and unzipping my jacket, stealing my hat, licking my jeans, snuzzling my pockets, etc.). Only very rarely will she decide to nip, and then a loud harsh “AHHHHTTTT!” followed by stern unhappy words takes the wind out of her sails 95% of the time. The other 5% she will decide to try again which gets the same results followed by a quick whack on the nose. She never tries more than twice, but she’s an Appy and has to push the boundaries every so often to maintain her Appitudinal reputation, LOL.

I really really appreciate everyone’s responses.

I remember one day, after everyone getting on my case about giving him the smackdown. The farrier had just finished with him, so his anxiety level (he really isn’t normally an anxious horse, except with the farrier) was higher then normal. He bit me, and got me, so I gave him a loud smack. He turned around and was like “fun game” and bit me again. Another smack. Then he turned around and put his lips on my arm, as if to say “Your move. Now what are you going to do?”

Farrier was on the floor pissing himself laughing. It was at this point that I realized ‘come to jesus’ moments that everyone encouraged with him, were really just “gelding play!” . Especially when I watched him and his best friend do literally the exact same thing. Nibble, nibble, nip, then “I’m not touching you”. My horse would then put his bum in buddys face, taunting him to bite him, then half heartedly kick when he did. Geldings are goofy animals.

So I will continue with positive attention before things that I know lead to the mouthiness, elbow out, and if I can manage it, poke in the gums. Those all feel like responses that have worked, or will work with his personality.

Nothing is ever easy with this horse, but his personality and work ethic more then makes up for it. He is cute as a button too. Not handsome. Just cute as pie.

Oh, yes, my eponymous little paint pony is a nipper. His barn name is Quanah, and when we boarded everyone called him Quanah the Piranha. :lol:

He’s actually grown out of it to some extent - I noticed he was trying to nip less frequently a few years ago (he’s turning 17 this year).

You’re right - smacking, etc just leads him to think “oh goody, my human is consenting to play silly bitey-gelding games” and encourages the behavior. Unless, possibly, you smack him with a 2x4, which I know you won’t. :slight_smile:

What worked with Quanah was blocking him. It’s a pain, because you must constantly be aware of where he is and whether or not he has a clear shot and be ready to block him with an elbow or brush or whatever 100% of the time. But as I said after a couple of years of never landing a bite or getting a reinforcing reaction he’s pretty much given it up.

But it would never have worked until I got him home thanks to all those helpful people at the boarding stable who “never let a horse get by with that behavior” and smacked him for it, thus giving him exactly what he wanted for biting.

Check for ulcers and look at diet. Too much food will make them mouthy. Having shown paint/QH halter horses and had horses with ulcers. Less rich food,more exercise,more turn out,some alfalfa and ulcer treatment.

Seriously look into clicker training and teach him to keep his head away. Really research how to do it right. Don’t make it up if you don’t really understand the process. If you want more details, PM me. :slight_smile:

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