I’m just curious if there are any people on here who don’t turnout their horses ever or are at a barn where others are of this mindset. I’m not talking about no turnout available/too lazy to come let them out/too cheap to pay for the service. I’m talking about people who’s horse’s only form of exercise is being ridden, lunged, put in a walker or hand walked despite access to nicely groomed private turnouts (grass and dry lot) even if the walker breaks, they go on vacation or something else happens to disrupt this routine.
I’m at a place where many boarders seem to be of this mindset and it kind of boggles my ind. I’m not against walkers, but isn’t that like putting your dog on a treadmill and saying that replaces going on walks? Is this 100% to avoid a potential injury? (Horses in question are sound and in full work, so not a footsore/metabolic issue). I’m just curious why people would choose this lifestyle for a horse.
A farm I used to work at bought a horse that had lived like this, no turnout, ever. He took two people/ two leads to walk him safely and it took several months to get him used to even a small turnout. I think it’s straight up abusive for a horse to be kept that way for no reason (lay-ups, etc)
I boarded at a barn where some had this mentality, not that extreme but close. Most wanted horses only turned out for 15 or 20 minutes and only in perfect conditions. It wasn’t a great fit for me and my horse since we didn’t fit into that type of schedule!
At my current barn, they are great about turnout. But we did have one boarder arrive and tell the staff her horse wasn’t to be turned out, she would turn him out in the arena when she could come down (sometimes once a week.)
I’ve met them. Typically they think that it makes their horses look more valuable or something if they “can’t be turned out.”
Many racehorses go without turnout during the season. I imagine other working horses, like carriage horses in the city, probably likewise.
Interesting. The issue doesn’t personally affect me (if anything it increases turnout availability for me) and I grew up at an inner city barn where turnout just did not exist so I get those situations (not ideal, but the reality of the setup). I’m just bored and trying to figure out how with everything we know about horses some people could think this is the best way. Didn’t Valegro and Verdades get individual turnout still? Can’t get much more expensive/fancy than that…
I agree that it is abuse. It is absurd. I had the misfortune of boarding at several barns like this in central Ohio. They’d turn out the boarder horses (minimally, and never near as much as they’d tell you they would when you looked at the place before moving there) but their own personal horses, never. They got ridden or lunged once a day 4-5 days per week, that was it. They were always Western pleasure show horses, too, whatever that’s worth. I know there’s upper level barns in all disciplines that operate in such a way, but I’ve never boarded at an upper level show barn.
I boarded many years at a place that had 2 hour max turnout – none in bad conditions or if you didn’t shoe your horse with boriums and there was ice. If the horses were in for more than 3 days due to weather, then they’d get 45 minutes in the indoor in small groups.
If your equine had a pulse, owners HAD to get to the barn 6 days a week to ride, or pay someone, else you had a firey beast on your hands. Barn was closed on Mondays.
We rode hard in those days though, even for us city slickers with full-time desk jobs in the city. Nobody longed and there was no hotwalker.
We rode at least one, but generally two hours a night in the indoor or outside under lights. Most of us took 2 1 hour lessons a week and took an hour trail ride after if there was enough light.
Thursday nights were almost always a clinic that ran late into the evening. Every other Friday night was almost always a competition of some kind, team penning, jumpers, barrels & poles - those ran even later.
Saturday was usually an all-day trail ride in the mountains, leave by 10am, home by dark. Sunday was a short trail ride, 3 hours or so, or work in the ring on whatever you needed to work on, clean your tack, make repairs, etc.
Come Monday everyone was glad for a day off.
I didn’t know any better as this was the first place I’d ever boarded. I thought it was completely normal for many years. Most of the horses seemed well adjusted, the QH’s, ponies and STBs fit the program pretty well for the most part. Most of the TBs, WBs, and Arabs didn’t, but people thought those breeds were naturally high strung back then so didn’t give it any mind. Wasn’t until I moved and learned about people who keep their horses outside 24/7 that I saw a lot of issues that probably could’ve been solved by turnout.
I really enjoyed that time of my life, but I’d never go back to that lifestyle.
I know a rider that doesn’t turn her horses out, ever. They live in box stalls 24/7. Rider claims she is afraid of injuries in turn out.
I understand there are many places in the world where that is the norm.
It’s my understanding that saddle seat type barns not only do not turn out (because of fancy showing), they like barns very dark.
I’m sure there are many disciplines like this, but I have experience with western pleasure training and show barns, and it’s not unusual for those horses to stay stalled 24/7. Heck, a lot of trainers even tie the horses in their stalls for several hours a day, supposedly to teach them patience.
I boarded at a place like this for many years, but luckily there WAS turn-out available and I turned my horse(s) out myself daily. The BO would not do it though…too lazy. My gelding’s sire stood at this farm, and for the entire time he lived there (and he was there for several years), he only left his stall to breed mares. He was in a stall in a barn all by himself and couldn’t even SEE outside, much less go outside. It was so sad. He was a big ol’ boy too, and only 3 years old when he came to live there. He colicked multiple times, but thankfully lived to see the day he was sold. My understanding is that he gets to be outside now. I’m so happy for him.
I saw a LOT of horses colic over the years at that barn. Saw a lot of people tranquilizing their horses just to be able to ride them too. Come to think of it…I saw lots of horrible stuff. Ugh.
Horses are meant to be outside moving around and grazing. Period. If the need their grazing limited, they still need to be outside where they can move around, not in a box. Totally cruel.
A barn near where I board has beautiful turn outs with so much GRASS (which is rare seeing as we live in the desert) and they NEVER turn the horses out. They are an Arabian Saddle Seat barn and don’t want to “risk” the horse’s getting hurt or pulling a shoe playing in turn out. I only know all of this because a girl that used to ride there moved over to the Hunter/Jumper Barn I am at.
At our barn we have dirt turn outs (because desert) as well as a euro walker. The turn outs aren’t huge but there is enough room for them to run around and play like idiots. (My boy in particular is well known for running around like an idiot in particular which always makes people laugh because he’s so chill under saddle.) The walker is mostly used to help make sure horses are fully cooled out, to rehab injury or just get them moving a bit if they’re one of the lazy ones that refuse to run and play in turn out.
Out of curiosity which countries? I could see like Japan, just because of real estate limitations, but are there other places where it’s more cultural?
I’ve never boarded at farms like this, but have been in/seen plenty. Mostly Thoroughbred/Standardbred racing, Saddlebred, and Arabian farms. They don’t turn out because of the elements, the risk of injury and the risk of cosmetically maiming a horse (ie ripping hair out, getting bitten by other horses, pulling shoes/plate/stacks/wedges). A “friend” of mine boarders her part arab at a farm like this. She doesn’t turn out anymore because her horse once pulled a shoe and half of his obscenely long foot off and “wrecked” that show season.
No turn out is cruel in my opinion. Horses are designed to eat small meals and be moving for 20+ hours of the day. Being stuck in a 10x10 box stall all the time absolutely does harm to them, mentally and physically. We have an old Saddlebred in our barn now that came from a farm that showed heavily and taught lots of lessons. He is an obsessive weaver, is extremely anxious to the point of aggression, he is buddy sour to the point of being dangerous. PLEASE, turn out your horses! They are herd animals and not only need the socialization, most of them CRAVE it.
I was told by a former trainer, that in Germany it wasn’t uncommon for competition horses to live in stalls 24/7.
I know in some areas of California the horses are kept in small corrals without turn out as well.
Years ago when I was a BM at an A barn one of our clients bought a new 1.40m jumper. The previous owner told us that she could not be turned out, new owner had us stick with that for the time being since it was fall which meant mud/ice/snow. She was a super sweet mare, one of the barn favourites, well behaved with no sterotypies.
Before Christmas we loaded up and headed to Florida for the winter. Once there new owner decided, “what the heck, lets see what the big deal is”. We turned her out, she trotted about 20’, rolled, and started grazing. We all looked at each other and shrugged. From then on she got full day individual turnout.
Personally, I think keeping a horse stalled 24/7 is abuse (other than rehab, etc.). Working in high end barns where the norm was 2-4hrs of turnout, and “full day” was 6hrs was an eye opener for me. There were so many more issues with cribbing, stall walking, weaving, etc. Some horses cope with it fine, but many don’t.
We don’t expect a dog to be happy in a crate 24/7, we wouldn’t expect a human to be happy locked in a room alone 24/7, heck most people know that a “fish bowl” is too small. Why would anyone think that a mammal who evolved to graze and travel 20 miles/day would be happy in a stall 24/7.
As much as it would break my heart, if I lived in an area where that was the only option I would be forced to either keep my horse where turnout was an option, even if it meant not seeing them very often, or get out of horses all together.
When I was a BM I turned away a prospective border who wanted 15 mins of turnout a day in a small grass round pen. Every other horse on the property was turned out in 20 acre pastures for 10-24 hours a day. Her horse was on so many supplements for ulcers, calming, hoof, etc. She would NOT have fit in.
To me I feel anything less than 10-12 hours a day is cruel. My horses have been night and day healthier since I put them out 24/7. It doesn’t have to be a huge, lush pasture either. Even a small dry lot suffices for their mind and body.
This is changing some in Europe if the facility has space for some small paddocks. The amount of time out depends on how much of this space and how many horses. Where space is limited, it is not uncommon to have the horse in all the time (plus walker and riding), or it’s out 24/7, possibly in a field not on the same property. I’ve been to a few different countries, and while the turnout might be more like a couple hours solo horse rotation in a normal crowded show barn environment with limited real estate, it’s not as much of a cultural thing to restrict turnout. More of a facilities restriction. And I’ve even seen some small private training barns operate more on 24/7 paddock living–this surprised me, but what didn’t surprise me was the behavior of the horses on these farms. There has been a bit of a cultural change to try to accommodate some small paddocks (versus big field or nothing). But it might be seasonal. Those who have paddocks may not have all weather paddocks, for example.
I have known a couple of horses who lived inside so long that they just couldn’t ever adjust to having turnout. Most will adjust eventually, but a few won’t.
My H/J program shared a barn with a reining trainer. Our horses were turned out-- we insisted–except in bad weather, daily. I NEVER saw a single one of those other horses out. Ever. They were tied to hitching rails. Tied to arena fences. Worked for 1-2 hours, hard, in the ring with lots of repetitive motions. Then tied back up. It was painful to watch.
We shared a barn with a WP group once too. Same deal. No turn out because dirt! And long tails! Those poor, fat horses stood in their boxes 23 hours a day, came out ot shuffle around the ring over and over, with lots of jerking of reins and rowelling of spurs, then back in their boxes they went.
I do think it is a discipline specific issue, as well as a high end horse issue. Granted, there are places where turnout is simply not feasible in large paddocks/fields or for long periods of time. Is it ideal? No, but horses can and do survive quite nicely in all kinds of set ups. But when that choice is not based on weather/location/space, it is questionable.
I ended up in a weird situation once where a barn wouldn’t turn out while there was snow in the ground… which was about five months out of the year. The horses went on a European style horse walker walk/trot for 45 minutes/day. But they didn’t make this clear up front, and since it was a college equestrian center, we were locked into a contract for the duration of the school year.
So my poor old horse, who was in her late teens at the time, went five months without turnout. It went OK until we had a month-long winter break and I couldn’t be there to ride. I signed my mare up for two horse walker sessions/day, but she was getting “too fit” per the barn staff, so they cut her back down to one.
This did not agree with her and she basically went bananas. She retained her ground manners, but the minute you let her loose in the indoor, she’d do nothing but gallop for 10 minutes straight. This was a horse who you normally had to chase to get her to move off lead. Under saddle, she developed a lovely teleport, spook and bolt habit. She was already a mild cribber and it got way worse. When she got to be turned out again, she was actually incredibly anxious about it for several weeks afterwards - lots of walking the fence line.
When she was on 24/7 turnout at a different barn, your grandma and little kids could ride her. She was a giant sweetheart under those circumstances. That experience cemented the importance of 24/7 hour turnout for most horses for me.
