Anyone hear anything about USEF ban on Depo-Provara & Regumate?

[AmmyHunter]

[QUOTE=TullyMars;9031400]
What I heard in the meeting was that the Depo part would perhaps come sooner than the Regumate part as far as enforcement and that the Regumate would be for the geldings and stallions that are on it. It was awfully early in the morning when the meeting happened and I may have been nodding off at my desk and imagined it all…![/QUOTE]

At what meeting was this discussed (ie, was this a USE meeting)? Seems like a number of people have heard rumblings, but it is thus far difficult to identify where the information is coming from.

And leaving the gelding/stallion piece of the equation aside for the moment, I really don’t understand why Regumate would be ok for mares but Depo would not?? Seems like that should be left to the individual mare’s vet to decide, given that some respond better to one than the other?

[TullyMars]

Yes it was a USEF meeting. OK to PM me AmmyHunter.

[Dubarry]

Announced today, The United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) will conduct a public workshop on the use of Medroxyprogesterone acetate, often referred to as Depo-Provera®, on competition horses. The public workshop will take place on March 13, 2017 from 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm EST at the Orlando Airport Marriott Lakeside Hotel in Orlando, Fla.

[Eventer13]

For those asking about banning medroxyprogesterone vs Regumate, there was a study that showed it had no impact on cycling of mares:
http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/Documents/Learnmares20-hormther-medroxyprog-apr09.pdf

So you could make the case that Regumate has clear therapeutic benefits as an estrus suppressant, whereas MPA has not proven such a use.

[Beethoven]

Depo does not suppress estrus in mares. I was flat out told by a professor at Colorado State Reproduction Lab that mares do not have the receptors that Depo Provera even acts on.

Lots of placebo effects going on with Depo in my opinion.

[dps]

Really hoping they don’t ban Depo for mares

[cherham]

My repro Vet has always said that “Depo” does not suppress any signs of heat in a mare nor is it effective. Recent independent scientific studies now seem to support and prove that fact.

For our breeding mares we always use Regumate and it has never let us down. Ever. Other then convenience of use I just don’t understand why anyone would wish to use an unlicensed and unapproved drug of any type on a horse.

[Jealoushe]

@Beethoven

Depo does not suppress estrus in mares. I was flat out told by a professor at Colorado State Reproduction Lab that mares do not have the receptors that Depo Provera even acts on.

Lots of placebo effects going on with Depo in my opinion.

Not to mention it is an extremely dangerous drug with long term negative side effects. I can’t believe people administer this drug so willy nilly.

[nctoma]

Jealoushe, can you please elaborate on why you feel that depo (MPA) is “an extremely dangerous drug”? What long term negative side effects have you observed?

[findeight]

It’s not necessarily the MPA, it’s the amount and frequency some are shooting their geldings up with specifically to influence behavior at shows.

[nctoma]

I was just asking for clarification from Jealoushe because I haven’t heard anything about the drug being considered “extremely dangerous” or having “long term negative side effects” (her words), and I wonder why USEF wouldn’t have specifically stated that as part of the rationale for proposing a ban on MPA and/or Regumate, if it were the case.

[mvp]

@HappyAmmy

Her only reproductive issue is that she ovulates and is a princess about it. You body clip her and she breaks out in hives. She gets a nick, her whole leg swells up and you would think she had been amputated. She’s a bit overdramatic when it comes to pain. So spaying seems quite extreme when ovulatory pain can be managed. And the vets who have evaluated her and reviewed her bloodlines think she would be an exceptional mare for breeding since she is registered as an Elite Mare in the Hanovarian Main Stud book. I think I’ll let her keep her uterus and ovaries and indulge her dramatic side a tad.

Well… folks can define “fitness for breeding” by any criteria they want (save infertility). I don’t think a beautiful but vicious animal belongs in a selective breeding program. Nor would I breed a lovely-minded horse who went lame at an early age.

I’m not saying that your mare is worth keeping whole or is not. But I am pointing out that the attribution of quality is subjective.

My own, hard-ass view of selective breeding is that an animal has a quality you don’t want-- including a reproductive system that makes them bad at doing the job for which you are breeding-- and if that quality is heritable, you have an animal that should be culled. That’s by definition.

[Jealoushe]

@nctoma

Jealoushe, can you please elaborate on why you feel that depo (MPA) is “an extremely dangerous drug”? What long term negative side effects have you observed?

http://multinationalmonitor.org/hype…oblems-us.html

In animal testing of Depo-Provera, the effects have been even more serious; required testing found breast tumors in beagle dogs and endometrial cancer in monkeys.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8200213

The effects of DMPA on reproductive tissue have been inconsistent, but there appear to be some effects on both the male and female reproductive organs. Studies on DMPA mutagenic and carcinogenic potentials indicate that chromosomal aberrations occur in hamsters and dogs. DMPA was found to produce tumors in dogs. It was concluded that a dose-related effect for the tumor production response in dogs was evident.

This study is pretty sciency - but it basically says there was a higher risk for sexual infection in those who are using Depo regularly due to the thinning of the vaginal wall.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science…42682206002388

http://www.doctorramey.com/help-my-mares-in-heat-i-think-part-2/

2. “Depo” shots. Depo-provera® is a brand of progesterone that’s sometimes given to women to prevent pregnancy and to treat endometriosis (you can read all about it if you CLICK HERE). It’s usually given to women once every three months, and it releases slowly (which is why you only have to give it every three months).

So… if it works for people, it must work for horses, right?

Well, in a word, NO! Why? Same reason the pellets don’t work. There’s not enough progesterone in the shot to make a difference in a horse. And it’s been tested several times, too. Don’t bother giving your mare a Depo-Provera® shot to keep her out of heat.

Other studies show that bone density is effected severely. My sister became diabetic after using depo, and my vet has said he can not believe that Depo is used or even approved by the FDA or Health Canada for use because it is so volatile.

The side effects can take time to show up, sometimes years after use.

I would highly recommend people NOT use this drug and if they feel they must, do not use it in an animal you ever intend to breed.

There have been NO short or long term studies on the effects of horses. Why would you treat your horse as a science experiment?

[Tackpud]

@Jealoushe

. Why would you treat your horse as a science experiment?

Because you want to win is the only explanation I can conceive of… :eek:

[Katona]

@Tackpud

Because you want to win is the only explanation I can conceive of… :eek:

While I don’t disagree with this, on principle. Some people honestly don’t know.

There are several horses at my barn on depo. My coach suggested it, and I said no. Sent her the EC doping guidelines that had it listed. She had no idea it was banned. EC wasn’t great about telling us. (No shock there.) But apparently, they also weren’t actually testing for it, even after banning it. It’s a weird grey area, but I see it as going by the wayside soon enough.

[jhg140]

@Beethoven

Depo does not suppress estrus in mares. I was flat out told by a professor at Colorado State Reproduction Lab that mares do not have the receptors that Depo Provera even acts on.

Lots of placebo effects going on with Depo in my opinion.

The CO State study had a sample size of six mares. FYI.

[cherham]

Forget the trainer not “knowing” it was prohibited in Canada for a moment where the heck is the Vet that is prescribing the darn stuff. You bet he/she knew it was illegal for competition. And dispensed it anyway??? Shameful.

[findeight]

Some vets don’t keep up. They actually don’t know because they don’t make the time to keep up. I know they are busy and reading tech journals is time consuming and deadly dull…but it’s as alarming how many don’t know as those who do and basically pimp themselves out to keep unsuitable or unsound horses going up to that show ring for a ribbon. I don’t know which one is worse…