Anyone Hunting Draft-Crosses? Bit Ideas..

[Borntorun]

I have a wonderful draft cross who has hunted the past two seasons in first flight. He is basically a perfect hunt horse but he is very strong when we get rolling/jumping and not as responsive to my hands as I would like. I hunted his first full season in an elevator w/french link and he did great. Last year, he started resenting the pole pressure and started dive-bombing on the bit when I asked for collection. I’ve tried all the “normal” bits like pelham, gag, and wire twists with some success. The wire worked the best. He ignored the pelham completely and the gag was like riding him in a snaffle.

I know what you’re thinking…“He needs more schooling in the ring”. But, he’s a PLUG in the ring and you could ride him in a halter without a bit and he stops on a dime! He needs brakes in the hunt field only.

Because drafts are heavy on the forehand, they can tolerate a lot more bit than most horses, and in my opinion, have harder mouths naturally. Does anyone have a suggestion for a NEW bit? Mikars or something out of the mainstream that has worked? I would agree the horse could use some additional training but I need a quick fix for this hunt season.

To put it in perspective, he’s about a 1500lb horse and I’m only a 120lb rider! I LOVE this horse and I’m not ever going to hunt anything else, so suggestions are very much appreciated!!

[wateryglen]

Been here, done this!

Oooooooo; I feel your pain! Great horse that just wears you out!! :yes: Don’t give up! There’s a lotta things to try! Here’s my 2 cents from hunting these wonderful horses.
Try changing your position in the field. Sometimes they get anxious about being left or seeing the others moving off etc. So move up or back. Are there other horses in the field that are uncorking him? Stay away from them. Find a good mentor or babysitter and see if that horse has a “good influence” on yours. Find a horse that has a nice, calm pace to try & match.
Try a double bridle. (You know our hunting farmer ancestors knew what they were doing when they used to use them on their work horse/carriage horse/farm horses out hunting. Remember the draft cross was often used to plow during the week, pull the carriage to church on sundays and hunt inbetween.) With a double bridle, you have the best of both worlds, snaffle & curb action. You can use one or both to whatever degree you like. Get a curb that has a long shank to give you the leverage and don’t forget a properly adjusted chin chain! :winkgrin:
Change bits frequently out hunting. Don’t just use one type. Use one for say 1 month or even weekly then change. You don’t want them to develop the neck/jaw musculature it takes to fight any one bit. That gives them the advantage. Change from curb types to snaffle types to gag types etc. Keep him on his toes. Don’t need to use the more severe bit regularly out riding either. Use the stronger only out hunting. You want him to have a tired/sore neck after hunting if need be!
Try a gag. Up the mouth piece severity if you need to AND don’t be afraid to use a flash attachment especially if he evades by opening his jaw. Many of these horses open their mouths and ALL they need are figure eights or flash attachments. If you’ve gone through all the bit types; go back and start again with the same bits WITH a flash.
I like running martingales so that IF he evades by throwing his head HE pays and I get a smoother pull on my arms!! I think they work best with snaffle action bits.
I tried a double twisted wire for 2 years on 1 and had to back off as it left an impression that when we move off or jump; he’s going to experience pain (from my pull). He’d throw his head up in anticipation and it took quite awhile to get him to forget that. Lessons learned but I’d still use it if I needed it just less often.
Remember, this is a practice based on self preservation for yourself. This is not the time to feel guilty about using a strong bit! I get upset about all the folks who get righteous about this. Dont’ care what others think! If you need it; USE IT!! This is YOUR struggle and YOU need to protect yourself and your horse from harm by having control. AND you want to have fun. :winkgrin:
Sometimes thinking differently about what your horse is doing can help. I like to say my horse isn’t a puller…he’s “enthusiastic” or has a lotta “go” in him or “loves hunting”!!!
Don’t give up on him; it’s the nature of the beast. Think of how strong your upper body will end up!! Beautifully sculpted arms, pectorals, strong back & shoulders…arms that’re 2 feet longer and drag your knuckles on the ground when you come in from hunting!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[SidesaddleRider]

I don’t hunt draft-x’s, but I’d recommend trying a double bridle on him. They do work, and I swear by them.

[x]

I’ll usually look into driving bits… I’ve had good luck using a Liverpool, and I just add an extra rein, so it is a bit more like a Pelham! And, I can set my lower rein at the level I want it, and I can reverse it to use the rough side if I need to, etc. Try looking into draft driving (as in working) bits…you may find something that will work better than the Saddle Horse bits!

[armandh]

change over time

see photo in my profile, very forward TWHxClyde
started with double bridle and after 2 years switched to a jointed pelham.
current horse, a DWBxClyde goes fine with a slow twist full cheek snaffel.

[sunnycher]

kimberwicke

I used to hunt my draft cross and when he was either excited or tired, he would yank down on the reins. So first the kimberwicke was great, then he got used to it, then gag, then 3 ring elevator, then back to kimberwicke. My point is I had to switch them up! Good luck, sure it fun!

[Borntorun]

Thanks for the suggestions…I’ve never thought about a double bridle OR trying a driving bit! I’ve ridden this horse everywhere in the field and I would consider him to be very competitive. He wants to get in front of the horse ahead of him but once he gets there, he stops! He’s really a chicken about leading but seems to like being at the head of the class!

I hunt with a good friend and we use eachother as “bumpers” when we are having control issues. But, my horse will NOT jump behind him. He runs-out a the fences if he follows his buddy. I think he’s trying to cut him off on the other side! Its really odd. He jumped great behind a mare he used to board with…Kept a good pace and distance because she was a kicker and he respected her.

I have no experience with a double bridle and it sounds complicated. I agree that a bit with a longer shank is the way to go. I rode him all summer in an eggbutt snaffle to give his mouth a break. He went fine in that but still had “whoa” issues. He really is a great horse. I just need more control when we jump to keep a healty distance. Only first flight jumps with my hunts. If I put him back in second, a MONKEY could ride him in a snaffle!!!

[Jumphigh83]

From experience…use something with a straight mouth NO breaks! I tried my (mostly) drafty in a broken kimberwicke and I might as well have a halter and leadd shank on him! Back to the straight mouthpiece, presto!, polite horse! He never did root though and he doesnt pull at all (built a little up hiill) but toss any ideas you have about bitting a “light” horse when talking drafties! (I know I learned from experience) Once he was humbled he has been GREAT…

[Leather]

Try a Myler combo bit on him. That’s what I hunt my guy in and it works pretty well. He’s normally an uphill moving horse, but the minute we start galloping he drops his head and turns into a freight train.

Check to see if there is a Myler dealer in your area that does the bit rental program so you can try before you fork over $$$.

http://www.toklat.com/myler/mbits_search.html

[Petstorejunkie]

Have you thought of incorporating a side pull into your rig?
Like having bitted reins, and then sidepull reins for extra brakes when you need them?

I dont know if that is okay on a hunt field tho…

[Romany]

Dr Bristol, or a Baucher (oddly enough, as it’s supposed to be a mild bit), and I agree with the others who suggested trying a double bridle - you can play with the length of the shanks, the chain, etc, for severity.

Or how about a combination of a bitless bridle (eg English hackamore with a chain under the chin) and a bit?

Dropped noseband might also help.

If you can find one, a Market Harborough can also be rather effective, too.

[GoneAwayFarmCT]

I love the Mikmar combination bit for the drafties that try to take over in the field. It’s a little ugly looking, but in my experience they don’t resent it the way they can resent some of the ‘sharper’ bits (twisted wire, etc.). And you’ve had some great suggestions above, as well. Happy hunting!

[Thomas_1]

Kimblewick

Why reinvent the wheel. It was originally designed as a hunting bit for horses that got strong

[Borntorun]

What makes a Kimberwick better than a pelham for control??? Maybe I’m ignorant, but shouldn’t the longer shank on the pelham, along with the chain, make it more severe?

I’m willing to try it but it doesn’t look like a severe bit to me at all. Mikmars might work but are awful expensive mistakes if they don’t! I’ve seen two draft go flying by me in the field with Mikmars. One was being ridden by a professional who was pulling like HELL to stop that bulldozer! I like the idea of mixing up the bits so the horse doesn’t get used to just one. I find that useful too.

You are right that Drafts are different types to bit…They have naturally dull mouths and with those strong necks/shoulders can pull you right out of the saddle! GOD LOVE’M…I wouldn’t trade mine for anything. But, if he doesn’t start listening to me, we are going to have a "come to Jesus meeting!

I"ve enjoyed your stories…Sounds like I share this problem with a lot of foxhunters! Happy hunting to all!

[goeslikestink]

a kimblewick is a great bit for a strong horse or pony

when i do lessons as kids havent the same strenght as an adult
as we all known big or small if a pony or horse wants to it can
go off and there not a lot we do about in the way of strenght

a kimblewick is execellent choice when you need a tad more to hold
the horse to gether-- kids like i said havent got the body power
yet-- so as for exsample its a good choice to keep hold of the ponies

i have two horses that a re strong a tb ex race horse
and american standard bred ex harness race horse
both are ridden in a volcanite kimblewick and do extremely well
and no problems as griace can have a tendancy to cross her yaw if she doesnt know you
which doesnt help the rider–so a kimblewick suits her well

[franknbeans]

Sorry-I didn’t have time to read all the posts, but I have had the same problem and finally my trainer suggested a Waterford gag (elevator) Hard to find-had to get it at shop4bits.com from UK, but it sure helps. The way the mouthpiece is made prevents them from getting hold of it and “freight training”, and the elevator has allowed me to adjust the pressure as needed on a particular day. I also use a standing martingale with it, to keep him from tossing his head…Has REALLY helped…but do use just a regular snaffle in the ring…he just loves the X-country so much and gets excited by the other horses that he just starts the old faster…faster…FASTER thing.

Good luck!

[Borntorun]

German Martingales

Anyone tried a German Martingale in the hunt field? Its like draw reins but they attach higher up. I rigged my regular draw reins yesterday while out trail riding to the ring at the breast on my breast plate and I had a lot more control over my horses face. He flexed at the pole for the first time since I bought him!

I was going to buy one but don’t know if they are considered “proper” for hunting. I think it would give me the extra control I need while out hunting.

[amc2]

I second the myler bit recommendation. My friesian gelding was the lightest ride in the world- 1 oz of rein pressure ever- and trully would hunt in a happy mouth snaffle… then one day he took to thinking and sometimes running was a lark and started diving his head between his knees and gallopping off like a headless horse- all I could see was shoulders…no control.
Different riders tried and he kept it up…

Friend of mine had same problem with her Clyde X and she took my guy out on the hunt in her level 1 myler bit. he was an angel most of hte hunt then a nice open field and bam- down went his head and off he went…she lifted- crossed the rein over and gagggg…up came his head…what the #$%^&*( was that??

He NEVER did it again…

i immediately went out to buy one to have for futuire- they cost a fortune- rent one-- and honestly never needed it again with him. (shoudl have listened to her when she told me i neednt buy one that it is usually a quick fix with these horses). We have since used it on 3 of our other horses *all drafts/x when they decided to pull this trick- 2 now hunt in pure snaffles, and 1 hunts in a jointed kimberwick- but on the ring- not in the slots…

[AiryFairy]

I had a hot insane puller and the gag worked perfectly, fingertip control without ruining his mouth. The lever bits just made him go dead in the mouth, and then it was my arms that took the beating. The gag was a godsend.

[promlightshine]

I fully agree about the mikmar bits. They have come a long way . I’ve seen several people on all types of horses using them in the huntfield including drafts/draft crosses. I had the old style and thus the rope noseband was white and you could see the large bolts on the side.

Problem: horse with no whoa . I tried multiple bits and exercises with her but she had developed , through years of riding before me and then with me as I struggled, significant musculator that allowed her to drive through even when her head was in a “set”, or up or down. Once her mind was set all the drive was in the front end regardless of her head.

I tried them all-mylar combo, kimberwick, bitless (omg!!), hackamores, french link… I would work with her in the ring but if we were out and it was competitive and she knew where she was it was a battle. I’m certainly NOT 100lbs that’s likely what helped as I had some weight behind me in those moments.

I bought the mikmar at the EA and gave the guy a bit of a hard time telling him I’d be back if it didn’t help. Schooled her a bit in it and man it’s been wonderful for her. Our Fieldmaster called it my “war horse bit”. She would play with the roller at the checks and she would stay in her place -sometimes not perfectly but much better overall.

Now that she is older she is just a pleasure trail horse. I still use it-she is comfortable in it.

One other bit is a gaited horse bit if you’d prefer not to double bridle/rein. A brenda imus bit almost dropped her on her rear end. Whatever it hit, it was too strong/uncomfortable and I have chosen NOT to use it.

Good luck!!