Does anyone know if any of the equine genetics facilities are doing research on the Sabino gene in warmbloods? I had a chestnut colt last year with a blaze, 3 socks and 2 huge belly spots (the western people keep calling him my “paint”). His sire is a black with 3 1/2 small socks that has thrown some pretty loudly marked babies as well as throwing Birdcatcher spots. The dam is bay and has a star and 2 small socks. Given how loud the baby is I suspect that he may have a double copy of whatever gene causes Sabino markings in warmbloods and would be happy to contribute samples for DNA testing.
Interesting thread!
I know the sabino gene exists in arabians, the russian lines in particular. My home bred anglo arab gelding has a white spot on his side the size of my hand and he certainly didn’t get it from his TB mother.
I’ll be watching this thread with interest :).
There are certainly lots of sabinos in the different warmblood registries, however, I doubt that there’s much research done on that since they breed for sport qualities, not color.
Tacorde out of Klondike Victory Farms in Alberta I beleive is sabino…lots of white passed the hocks plus has a belly spot…can’t remember his breeding…just know he is warmblood .
Dalemma
I don’t think it’s a matter of a “double copy,” rather just extension suppressing white!
Your boy is definitely not the first chestnut with lots of white born from two bay/black/brown parents with minimal white. Black/extension is very well known to suppress the expression of sabino. Did either parent have ermine spots in their socks? That’s usually a sign of white suppression. My dark brown mare has one low, jagged sock filled with ermines and roaning throughout her entire body. White suppression at its best!
Look at Color Guard by Escudo I. Bred by a breeding program that wants dark horses with minimal white; by a solid black stallion out of a dark mare. I’m sure everyone was surprised when that wildly marked “thing” was born…But his damsire was Federalist by For Pleasure, so no question there was sabino hiding.
Then you have stallions like Balta C’zar who are black based (he’s even homozygous black) with lots of chrome and tend to pass it to their offspring. His white is from splash, not sabino, which isn’t/isn’t as affected by extension.
I hope I’m not stating the obvious here.
[QUOTE=Dalemma;5479555]
Tacorde out of Klondike Victory Farms in Alberta I beleive is sabino…lots of white passed the hocks plus has a belly spot…can’t remember his breeding…just know he is warmblood .
Dalemma[/QUOTE]
He’s Concorde/Goodtimes/Damiro. His white likely came from Voltaire.
You can now test for Sabino 1, just as you can test for black/chestnut, dilutes, etc.
The tricky thing about Sabino (as Shannon points out) - it doesn’t always express itself loudly - a low sock may be all you see, the voila, out comes a baby with lots of color! I had a little chestnut a few years back with all kinds of “ticking”, keyhole spots in his blaze, white patches on his upper legs, even his mane “roaned” to look flaxen - out of two parents without all those characteristics. I have another mare who has a thin snip and very low white anklets that has thrown some wild color, and still another (that I sold this year) that had nothing more then the ermine spots in her very small socks - it really can hide, the all of a sudden, you get a baby with tons of chrome.
Research was done on TBs regarding Sabino1, to find that they don’t test for it LOL
Agree with what Shannon said. Black-based colors are well-known to suppress white expression (though there are certainly some loudly marked black-based horses). It’s not uncommon at all for 2 less-marked black-based parents to produce loud red-based foals.
Do we know of any WBs who have been tested for SB1? Last time I checked so few horses in general actually tested positive for it 
It just seems like a rather pointless test for me, as it’s completely different than frame and it’s not the only gene for sabino. If the horse has even a little white, it (in the case of 99% of WBs and TBs, with the exception being the VERY few frame + TBs) definitely has either sabino or splash. It’s not like frame where it can hide completely on a horse with absolutely no white and then the next generation has a very high chance of having frame expressed if the gene is passed. So what if a horse is SB1SB1…Cool, the next generation is guaranteed to have a sock!
[QUOTE=ShannonD;5479722]
So what if a horse is SB1SB1…Cool, the next generation is guaranteed to have a sock! ;)[/QUOTE]
Hahaha, and maybe some white on their face - at least a snip. No, I don’t know of anyone whose done this test, just figured since OP asked about genetic studies, I’d point out there is a test for SB1…
What I AM curious about is to see how much a horse being homozygous black suppresses white expression. My mare is EE Ata and like I said has roaning throughout her coat and one jacked low sock with ermines. Her sire had slightly more white and I don’t think her dam had any more than she does based on her other offspring. My mare has been bred to a homozygous black, minimal-if-any white stallion twice (JTB); the first colt had zero white and the second just a small star and perhaps a small sock. I’m curious to potentially breed her to a chestnut or at least an Ee stallion to see just how much her homozygosity is suppressing white. She is being bred to an Ee stallion with a star and two socks this year so crossing fingers.
Sorry for rambling 
[QUOTE=ShannonD;5479798]
What I AM curious about is to see how much a horse being homozygous black suppresses white expression. My mare is EE Ata and like I said has roaning throughout her coat and one jacked low sock with ermines. Her sire had slightly more white and I don’t think her dam had any more than she does based on her other offspring. My mare has been bred to a homozygous black, minimal-if-any white stallion twice (JTB); the first colt had zero white and the second just a small star and perhaps a small sock. I’m curious to potentially breed her to a chestnut or at least an Ee stallion to see just how much her homozygosity is suppressing white. She is being bred to an Ee stallion with a star and two socks this year so crossing fingers.
Sorry for rambling :)[/QUOTE]
I have a bay sabino mare with four white socks, a star and a snip, with white through her lower lip. Bred to Freestyle, homozygous black with little to no white, she produced a black colt with four white stockings and a belly spot. So, his homozygosity didn’t suppress her sabinoness. (Great word, no?)
I have an EEaa mare who has a whole lot of chrome, lip spot, jagged stockings. She has produced both as much chrome as she has as well as very plain dark offspring. I had her tested for sabino and she was negative (though reading this thread makes me figure she’s negative for sabino 1 and who knows what the rest of the story may be). Interestingly, at the age of 11 she has recently sprouted birdcatcher spots. I had never seen that in anything but a chestnut and it shocked me to see.
[QUOTE=clint;5480126]
I have a bay sabino mare with four white socks, a star and a snip, with white through her lower lip. Bred to Freestyle, homozygous black with little to no white, she produced a black colt with four white stockings and a belly spot. So, his homozygosity didn’t suppress her sabinoness. (Great word, no?):D[/QUOTE]
Ahhh, but see your mare may be Ee and could have passed her e, so the colt might be Ee too! :winkgrin:
How cool! I’ve seen a couple non chestnuts with birdcatchers, and when they have them they really have them it seems. Neat to see that one has actually been tested a well.
[QUOTE=ShannonD;5479798]
What I AM curious about is to see how much a horse being homozygous black suppresses white expression. :)[/QUOTE]
Well, my small sample is definately not big enough to be scientific, but I have two homo black mares, and have bred both to pintos (heterozygous, splash tobiano), and have only gotten solid black - one tiny (TINY) star out of four foals. Not a huge sample, but none-the-less, supports the theory that black suppresses white patterns. Same two stallions bred to my chestnut mare (who I suspect to carry Sabino, but haven’t tested her) have resulted in three tobiano foals. So, if we can get enough people to add data to our small sample, we might actually get a large enough sample to mean something:lol:
H
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[IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/DalEmma2002/P7110008.jpg)
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Dalemma
What are birdcatcher spots? Photos?
birdcatcher spots are white spots that appear randomly, bigger or smaller, tend to come and go but can be permanent, mostly on red-based colors but have appeared on black-based colors.
My mare is rabicano which I’ve read is somehow tied to sabino. Her other white markings are one small star, tiny lip spot and one very thin stripe on one hoof. And she gets more white hairs all over her body every year. The most on her flanks (pic below) and one side of her barrel has more white than the other.
What’s odd about her is that both parents are solid. I don’t think Sinatra Song has any white on him, and her dam only has a tiny lip spot and s small star. And then there’s my horse with a scattering of white everywhere. I hope the white continues.
This is one flank: http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad198/HorseFeathersFarm/278cfbab.jpg
She is EEAa, tested by UCDavis.
[QUOTE=JB;5480366]
birdcatcher spots are white spots that appear randomly, bigger or smaller, tend to come and go but can be permanent, mostly on red-based colors but have appeared on black-based colors.
http://image02.webshots.com/2/6/17/64/43861764Ntejdb_fs.jpg[/QUOTE]
My very loud red Itaxerxes mare has grey spots in her blaze with red centers.
She does have Birdcatcher in her pedigree.
I’ll take a photo of her nose and upload it.
