[QUOTE=Oakstable;5480346]
What are birdcatcher spots? Photos?[/QUOTE]
OTTB mare with birdcatcher spots. Some years she had more and they were bigger! She has Northern Dancer/Graustark bloodlines and I own her foal (now 9) who has similar markings to this mare, with roaning on both flanks and some white hairs at the top of her tail, but no birdcatcher spots.
http://chronicleofmyhorse.ning.com/photo/1971868:Photo:43246?context=user
[QUOTE=Oakstable;5481422]
I specified sporthorse breeds as I am interested in knowing of stallions I might be able to use with my warmblood mares, and specifically with my Itaxerxes mare.[/QUOTE]
Both stallions look to have splash and possibly sabino mixed… you can see the white on legs being pretty smooth edged but having a little bit of a run up the backs of front legs and fronts of back legs. Interesting…looking at foal photos by the bottom stallion and see the same thing on legs…that little bit of an upward run but with smooth edges suggesting splash/sabino mixed.
If I breed my chromey mare to a chromey stallion, is there any chance of getting a solid?
oakstable - of course! It helps to tell your mare you want 'colt/filly with as much chrome as she can put on him/her" and use the gender that you do not want! :winkgrin: Then you can up your chances of getting the gender/color/markings you’d like! 
We’ve got a fair amount of Absatz blood and mares who are sabinos or with Birdcatcher spots or oil spots (or a combination of the above) and even bred to stallions who carry the sabino gene - or another cross to Absatz - we’ve gotten some plain(er) offspring.
It is part of the fun of breeding to see what each new foal gets in terms of markings! 
[QUOTE=Oakstable;5481947]
If I breed my chromey mare to a chromey stallion, is there any chance of getting a solid?[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah…ask Paint breeders of overo pattern horses! Approximately 1/3 of Paint foals (where breeders are breeding FOR color) are solids (which means they are either truly solid with no white or are minimally expressed colored horses that don’t meet registration requirements of location/amount of color).
As said, the chance of solid out of chrome x chrome is very real.
It helps to know the past production. Some stallions are very known for putting white on foals. Popeye K is one, though he certainly has solid foals as well. Mares are the same.
There is a lovely line of sabino wb showjumpers here in Australia… although it was introduced from sab TB lines
The High Rail Roll the Dice and Colourful Gambler are without a doubt Dominant White, very loud expressions of it
I can’t see enough of Highwayman to see his white clearly enough, but his front socks look Splash-like.
Balou du Rouet is a well-known sabino and splash
I forgot to mention that my colorful mare also has Bukephalos, who was a blue roan, tho advertised as a grey.
So my mare has an interesting brew of color genes.
What to do with it?!
But if your mare isn’t roan herself, then she cannot pass it on.
[QUOTE=Oakstable;5483122]
I forgot to mention that my colorful mare also has Bukephalos, who was a blue roan, tho advertised as a grey.
So my mare has an interesting brew of color genes.
What to do with it?![/QUOTE]
True roan (body with white hairs mixed with colored ones, lower legs/mane/tail/face less so or no white mix) is a dominant gene so for your mare to pass this to a foal she would have to be roan herself (or bred to a roan…it is possible to have homozygous roan…fairly rare as it was thought for a long time that this was fatal to the embryo so roans were seldom bred to roans…and even when they are bred there is only a one in four chance of getting a homozygous foal). Sabino type roaning may or may not be highly inheritable (in Paints it appears to be pretty strongly inherited but then Paints are often a mix of several patterns with sabino being widely spread through the breed). Rabicano also appears to be a dominant pattern with widely varying expression (maybe possibly sabino connected…more expressed if sabino present?).
[QUOTE=JB;5482869]
The High Rail Roll the Dice and Colourful Gambler are without a doubt Dominant White, very loud expressions of it
I can’t see enough of Highwayman to see his white clearly enough, but his front socks look Splash-like.
Balou du Rouet is a well-known sabino and splash :)[/QUOTE]
Correct.
As for actual sabinos, there are more and more around as it becomes more acceptable.
KVF Tacorde
[QUOTE=ShannonD;5479572]
He’s Concorde/Goodtimes/Damiro. His white likely came from Voltaire.[/QUOTE]
A little late COTH friends sorry !
Tacorde is a KWPN stallion, & last night jumped a fabulous
1.80 m for second place at the Puissance at Spruce Meadows !
Being Hallow’een, he & his rider Lorrie Jamieson were dressed up as gypsies - jingling bells and all !!!
www.kvf.ca (hopefully the video will be up soon)
Yours in sport,
Lynn
NICE horse!
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;5480313]
Well, my small sample is definately not big enough to be scientific, but I have two homo black mares, and have bred both to pintos (heterozygous, splash tobiano), and have only gotten solid black - one tiny (TINY) star out of four foals. Not a huge sample, but none-the-less, supports the theory that black suppresses white patterns. Same two stallions bred to my chestnut mare (who I suspect to carry Sabino, but haven’t tested her) have resulted in three tobiano foals. So, if we can get enough people to add data to our small sample, we might actually get a large enough sample to mean something:lol:[/QUOTE]
while sabino and tobiano are different, as I understnd it they are on the same KIT gene located fairly close together, so quite possibly may be inherited together as a package deal. In years of breeding Paints and Pintos though…on the whole I have not found a big bias towards chestnuts producing tobiano. I have had mostly bay tobi foals in fact. The overo traits OTOH are clearly red enhanced/black supressed. Right now I have a couple generations on that on the farm. I have a black bay TB mare that has a white dot for a star and a white heel. Pretty much chromeless. Bred to Waldaire (chestnut WB that tends to throw a lot of chrome) that filly has 3 low white socks and a small star. That mare bred to my max white (mostly TB) Paint stallion had a colt with 3 stockings, a big star and a white lower lip. I suspect had he come out chestnut he would have been a spotty body!
Tobiano is linked to Extension - they go as a pair. Most of the time it’s linked to e. Sometimes, such as in the Samber line, it’s linked to E.
When it’s linked to e, then the color of the Tobiano is very similar to the color the horse would be without Tobi involved. The T will go with the e 93% of the time, but whether the horse is red-based or black-based will depend on the other parent. That’s why there will be a pretty even mix, over a large enough population, of red- and black-based Tobis.
But when it’s linked to E, E and T will go together 93% of the time, so over a large enough population, only 7% of the Tobis will be red-based.
I am pretty sure Art Deco - an E/T horse - has no chestnut tobiano foals out of solid mares.
I was similarly surprised several years ago when a flaxen chestnut sabino Hanoverian colt was born from two bay parents. His markings were moderate in expression with lightning strikes on the top of 3 tall socks, stripes on all hooves, load and unsual blaze that went onto one cheek, black spots on top of white spots on his lip, diluted mane and tail, several belly spots and roaning throughout his chestnut coat.
A PhD in Equine Studies from the University of TN saw a photo of the colt and asked to research the sabino markings for her Equine Color Genetics class. The pedigree research identified the paternal great grand sire (Furioso II) had a few sabino markings and very likely carried the sabino gene. We choose to not perform the genetic testing on our colt since we opted to geld him when he was a 2 year old.
Furioso II is a well-known producer of white, both expected, and the “surprise” variety
Concerto Grosso
This year my very bay mare (with a quarter sized star) by Voltaire produced a very flashy chestnut colt with four high stockings (over knees and hocks) who also has an 8 inch slash of white across his left stifle and a right white eyelid. He is by the very dark and handsome Concerto Grosso by Concerto II out of Caletta VII by the chestnut TB, Koenigspark.
Had I not seen him born, I would have thought someone had switched him at birth. He is spectacular and was a Premium foal at the AHHA inspection in September.
Standing Concerto Grosso
AHHA and ISR/Old. NA licensed Holsteiner Stallion
www.merlesmitheventing.com
As a direct son of Furioso I, are you surprised? LOL Lots of Voltaire’s have a good amount of white
Picture of the foal? So unfair to tease like this 
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