OK, been wondering about this: I have been around breeding for decades, mainly in the QH world where young stallions are trained to a Phantom/Dummy and AV. Hot mare alongside, warm AV, and it is not hard.
How do the TB farms train the freshman studs like AP for live cover, since they have to be ‘professional’ by Feb 15 or so. Are there nurse mares out there in foal with very well-bred babies?
They use a jump mare.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8474488]
They use a jump mare.[/QUOTE]
I’m not familiar with that term… what’s a jump mare?
In a roundabout way, a jump mare is the female counterpart to a teaser - both are there to make sure the opposite sex is able to do their job. Teasers make sure a mare is ready TO breed and (in the case of an inexperienced stud) jump mares make sure a stallion knows HOW to breed .
Farms use jump mares/test mares to help one learn to breed and to test if they are able to impregnate a mare. Some of the mares have had their ovaries removed so they cannot get pregnant, and some mares they just abort should they get pregnant. It all depends on the stallion/farm manager’s particular needs. I owned a mare who was a real whore and she loved to teach the boys their job. She was 17 hands so on occasion we ran into a problem with a smaller stud but given time, they always figure it out 
The biggest thing to remember when training a breeding stallion is to be patient. For most of them, during their training/racing years, have been smacked or heavily reprimanded any time they showed any sort of interest in a filly and may be apprehensive to show any interest now when they smell a mare. Some learn their new job faster than others. Some want to learn on their own. A farm I knew that had a new stallion was having problems getting him to want to jump the mare and had spent several hours over the course of 2 days working with him. I suggested just turning the stud and mare out in a small paddock together for the afternoon to see if that would help. It worked like a charm - he knew his job from that day forward, and they never had a problem getting him to jump a mare since!!!
You asked about nurse mares and their well bred babies. I used to work in the office on one of the large farms in Lexington and one year we had the hands down, most beautiful palomino for a nurse mare. They bred her after hours to our best looking (and most expensive) stallion and the manager made up some story about how he liked that mare so much, and that he was looking for a riding horse to train and could he purchase her foal once it was weaned. Talk about a good looking baby!
I have used jump mares for collection, horse mounts mare and he is grabbed and put in AV. Used on farms with no phantom or when stud was not trained to phantom yet. Can’t see them doing this with TB except to check semen.
Never had a problem teaching a stud to breed a mare. Took a course o stallion handling that suggested stud being turned out with a mare that would teach him manners.
If stud was good tried to breed him to some mares that would not try to hurt him.
I have seen pictures of horses that had were all padded up to protect them.
Had a stud here that had years of live cover under his belt and had a beat up chest. When I started handling him he had all kinds of manners. He was very careful coming up to mares, lots of forplay. Some young guys would see a mare and try charging them on two legs with no regard for safety. Kind of like young men.
LOL
I would guess you start with good mares and the best of the best handlers.
Horse of that value I would think slow and easy.
A have a great book called International Stallions and Studs. In it, there is discussion about a young stallion at the Irish Stud, who when turned out with mares was determined to be the “paddock rapist”. It is amazing how mares will settle a horse down, and put some manners on him.
I have a stallion here who I did the same thing with. He had a pair of hoofprints on his chest for awhile, and that mare had serious hind feet. He grew right up. The foal was gorgeous.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8474802]
A have a great book called International Stallions and Studs. In it, there is discussion about a young stallion at the Irish Stud, who when turned out with mares was determined to be the “paddock rapist”. It is amazing how mares will settle a horse down, and put some manners on him.
I have a stallion here who I did the same thing with. He had a pair of hoofprints on his chest for awhile, and that mare had serious hind feet. He grew right up. The foal was gorgeous.[/QUOTE]
A good mare is so good at training studs and their own babies.
I was taught the turn out, but can you imagine seeing AP getting kicked?
aHHH… Thanks. I’ve heard “test mare” but hadn’t heard “jump mare” before. I was thinking it was like a phantom.
Thanks. I can see diverting from a jump mare to an AV to test semen, but aborting a pregnant jump mare? Must be a really valuable farm attribute. And, if ovaries are removed, can you still bring one into heat with injections?
Thanks. I can see diverting from a jump mare to an AV to test semen, but aborting a pregnant jump mare? Must be a very valuable farm attribute with job security. If ovaries are removed, can you still bring one into heat with injections?
[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8475162]
Thanks. I can see diverting from a jump mare to an AV to test semen, but aborting a pregnant jump mare? Must be a very valuable farm attribute with job security. If ovaries are removed, can you still bring one into heat with injections?[/QUOTE]
IIRC when the Ovaries were removed they are always in heat. Overrectimized (spelling)Doesn’t go in and out just stays in.
Then you always have a tease mare.
[QUOTE=Jim R;8475193]
IIRC when the Ovaries were removed they are always in heat. Overrectimized (spelling)Doesn’t go in and out just stays in.
Then you always have a tease mare.[/QUOTE]
Sheesh!
[QUOTE=Jim R;8475193]
IIRC when the Ovaries were removed they are always in heat. Overrectimized (spelling)Doesn’t go in and out just stays in.
Then you always have a tease mare.[/QUOTE]
Interesting!
http://largeanimal.vethospitals.ufl.edu/hospital-services/surgery/ovariectomy/
Many mares with normal ovaries are presented for bilateral ovariectomy because of the perception of excessive and unwanted female behavior. This is similar to castrating an intact male horse because of the need to eliminate undesirable behavior.
Unfortunately, the procedure does not always achieve the desired purpose in mares, and owners need to consider this. The reason for this is that some mares will continue to produce estrogen from another source, possibly the adrenal glands, and the problem will persist after ovariectomy.
In fact, “jump” or mount mares are ovariectomized so that the continued production of estrogen will make them appear to be permanently in estrus. Then they will stand for the stallion and the stallion can be collected for such purposes as artificial insemination or breeding soundness examination.
I feel like when I was about 9 and we went on a field trip to a breeding farm and they had a display of the AVs. LOL
I’m certainly getting an education in here.
[QUOTE=Jenerationx;8475291]
I feel like when I was about 9 and we went on a field trip to a breeding farm and they had a display of the AVs. LOL
I’m certainly getting an education in here.[/QUOTE]
Since my son was 3-4 years ago and was watching everything from live cover to collections, mare being palpated, microscope on the counter and the dinner time conversations he would probably be correcting his teachers about reproduction.
We forget some times when we’re out to dinner and get some strange looks from people close by on what’s normal to us.
[QUOTE=Jim R;8475342}
We forget some times when we’re out to dinner and get some strange looks from people close by on what’s normal to us.[/QUOTE]
Two mare owners discussing semen shipping and conception woes can get the same looks.
And, I hope farms give those overectomy (sp?) nares a good life for the 10-11 months a year they are not ‘working’ in return for being in heat all the time - yuck.
[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8475553]
Two mare owners discussing semen shipping and conception woes can get the same looks.[/QUOTE]
Haha! So do dog people involved in conformation. “This bitch was Winner’s Bitch. That bitch stayed home last weekend,” really gets some looks, too
[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8475553]
Two mare owners discussing semen shipping and conception woes can get the same looks.
And, I hope farms give those overectomy (sp?) nares a good life for the 10-11 months a year they are not ‘working’ in return for being in heat all the time - yuck.[/QUOTE]
The farms I worked at that had jump mares kept them outside in a field with a run in shed. They got vet, farrier, dental, wound care, feed, and supplemental hay when needed. Sometimes they were used as companion horses for the ones who were on stall rest to help keep them calm. All of the mares I encountered were not stressed or depressed but acted like normal happy horses full of whinnies, nickers, and were happy running around or grazing.
There was a very recent interview somewhere (Bloodhorse, Paulick?) where one of the workers at the farm was interviewed about teaching AP the facts of life. In fact, the first question was, “Is he still a virgin?” Unfortunately, the sound wasn’t great, so I missed the answer–or maybe it was vague in the first place. So, the question again is-- is AP STILL a virgin???
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