Apprentice Disappointment

[pennylaneplainjane]

I have recently decided to start teaching beginner lessons, but have had an awkward and uncomfortable experience so far that I would love feedback on. Previously, I have had a very successful career showing and worked for a few big barns in various roles, but didn’t do much teaching outside of leading some lead-line kids around. A few years ago, I took time off from horses due to working outside of the horse industry. I currently own a few young horses that I am training and have pursued the industry full time/left my non-horse profession.

An opportunity to teach came up at a barn where I am a customer, which would be a great auxiliary to what I’m currently doing. Owners/head trainers at my barn have been very encouraging of me taking this position. Main lesson trainer at this barn is great at teaching beginners and I have been apprenticing under her.

The other day, a parent I just met heard I was possibly going to start picking up a few days of teaching and remarked to lesson trainer, in front of a few of lesson trainer’s students, “oh that’s great you guys found someone for this position better than that person who you guys hated that I heard was here last week.” It was very awkward since I have been the only person apprenticing as an instructor and it was clearly about me. Lesson trainer and students reacted to this parent by making faces like, “oops” and “stop speaking” (and parent kind of dug herself into a deeper hole when lesson trainer tried to change subjects). I tried to ignored it and kept going about my day like nothing happened. I was a little caught off guard and not sure what to say in the moment.

It is confusing- I haven’t actually done any teaching yet and have been trying to learn as much as possible before I start. I have been trying to stay low-key, pitching in to help when asked/appropriate, but careful not to overstep or get in lesson trainer’s way. I did also notice that some of lesson trainer’s “helper students” don’t seem to like me. I hadn’t thought much of it at first, since teenagers are teenagers.

For example, I was tasked by lesson trainer to help a young kid tack up a school horse the other day. Originally, the lesson trainer had the young kid down to ride one horse, but changed it to another. When I was helping the young student tack up, two of lesson trainer’s helper students RAN into the barn aisle and started yelling (seriously) at me that I was getting the wrong horse ready, right in front of the clients (kid and parent). These kids behavior in this moment can only be described as a spectacle. Even if it was the wrong horse, which it wasn’t, they carried on like I just put everyone in grave danger (both horses in question are old school masters, so it really wouldn’t have been a big deal and would have been very easy to correct). After they confirmed with lesson trainer that I was, in fact, tacking up the correct horse, they then started anticipating other things they seemed to think I make mistakes on. It was really distracting and bizarre.

There have also been a few times when I asked these same kids where I could find specific items- lesson trainer told me they would help me find whatever I needed when I first started apprenticing. Several times they have told me the obviously wrong thing or claim not to know, but seem to miraculously know when lesson trainer asks them. They also have told me I was using the wrong equipment when I wasn’t. I had not spent time around the lesson program prior to this (different location), so I had no information on the lesson horses or program equipment when I first started apprenticing.

I have also noticed that lesson trainer will do a similar thing- ask me to help get a horse ready, but won’t indicate what the student is capable of doing in terms of tacking up and isn’t communicating about horse temperament, tack/equipment (she changes this often) needed despite me asking each time. Whenever I ask, I get responses like, “the student can do it and they know what the horse needs,” when the kid really isn’t capable and generally doesn’t know. Originally, I chalked it up to lesson trainer being busy, but I’m starting to notice she likes to be the “hero,” as she has to “correct” me when I follow her incorrect instructions or get ignored.

The other day, some of these same helper kids were riding in a lesson during extreme heat. One of them was struggling to pickup/put her water bottle back down during a break. Instinctively, I walked over to help her- when I reached out with the water was told “umm I don’t need help” as she dropped it to the ground.

It should be noted, I previously worked with teenagers in a different capacity/industry for many years. I get teenagers- nothing is more humbling than working with them, but this just seems very different. I don’t hold them to blame here- they are clearly taking direction from adults.

I have a positive relationship with barn owner, but know that lesson trainer is a big part of this operation and someone they have had employed for a long time. I have respect for the lesson trainer as an instructor, so this experience has been upsetting. I have no desire to take on teaching like she does- just wanted to get teaching experience/teach once or twice a week while focusing on training my young horses.

My question(s):

1. Do I say anything to lesson trainer? I have to say, I would like to address lesson trainer in a non-defensive/non-aggressive way about the parent’s comment and/or my experience with her helper kids, but don’t know if I should bother? I don’t want to create any drama or aggravation, and worry if I talk to lesson trainer about this, it will do just that.

2. Do I tell owner what’s going on? I want to continue to be a customer at this barn, but I don’t think I should work there anymore.

3. Should I just politely let them know I’ve decided not to take the position and that they should find someone with more experience and not tell them why I am no longer interested in working at this barn?

I have been disappointed by this experience, but mostly I just feel embarrassed. Thanks for reading and for any feedback, similar experiences, or advice.

[trubandloki]

To clarify, you want to stop doing your apprentice thing and not teach lessons now?

If the barn owner likes this instructor it would do you no good to badmouth them (even with facts) to the barn owner. But I see no reason for being politely honest with the lesson trainer and barn owner.

I am sure others can come up with a better way to say this but what comes to mind with the instructor is - Thank you for the opportunity to apprentice under you. I feel like I have learned a lot about the lesson program (you are allowed to think things like - I learned how not to run a program too). It seems that I am not a good fit for teaching under you so I am going to go back to just being a boarder and my other jobs I have here.

The instructor knows what you heard and I have no doubt knows how the teens are treating you.

[pennylaneplainjane]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response- it’s both helpful and validating of this unexpected and weird experience.

You are correct- I don’t think I want to continue the apprenticeship or to fill the teaching position in this program at this time. I actually have learned a lot from this instructor and think I would love teaching, but just not in this program. To be fair, the program is actually great- my experience is probably an anomaly. If it were my program/I was in the other trainers position, I would not be gossiping about coworkers or allowing students to behave this way, but it’s not my program. There very well could be a valid reason this trainer doesn’t care for me. It would have been helpful to know if there was something I was doing or not doing so I could have learned from that, but I believe it’s probably just as simple as she doesn’t care for me.

Your point that the trainer heard the parent and is aware of the teens behavior is spot on and was a helpful way to think of it. I don’t see a point addressing it with trainer or owner, as there isn’t anything to gain, but a lot to lose. I love the barn owner and other aspects of the barn.

I do think I’ll pursue teaching in the future, under conditions where I feel supported and confident (for myself and the client). I just wouldn’t be my best self at this barn, at this time.

[starhorse]

You sound like a lovely and knowledgeable person. I think it would be wise to look for another opportunity that would value you and still give you what you’re looking for. You don’t need to feel uncomfortable at work

Best of luck finding a better fit for you and what you deserve!!

[OverandOnward]

The barn sounds like a drama factory. I have no doubt whatsoever that any teen that makes a scene about a “wrong horse” (correctly or incorrectly) will have a lot of stories to tell about it later, to the other students, parents, whoever would listen.

And it sounds like all gossip behind the scenes. That’s what leaked when the parent over-shared in front of you and everyone.

The kids are setting up a power struggle with you. The instructor seems to either expect and/or enjoy this scenario, as the instructor is clearly enabling it.

I think you are wise to see the difficulties coming and steer clear to a better experience, somewhere else. Just an opinion based on what you’ve posted here (which I find to be clearly and logically written, and isn’t overly dramatic).

It’s always a bummer when something that could be a great thing is in the wrong hands and it just isn’t going to work out that way.

However nicely the BO is coming across to you, remember that people tend to recruit other people that are at least somewhat like themselves. Then, those people do the same when recruiting the people under them. An organization becomes a reflection of the leader at the top. BO to instructor to students. The instructor and students are showing the colors, as it were. If the BO brought you on, maybe BO would like a change, but if so it will be rough and messy.

[EmilyM]

3
You don’t need this nonsense

[TheDBYC]

Oy. These people sound about as fun as a phiranha in a hottub!

Regarding apprenticeships, etc, do you really need it? Especially with a background as robust as yours? I taught voice for 20 years. We had to take pedagogy classes, survey of literature, teach a volunteer as our final, etc. When I actually started teaching it immediately became apparent that none of this but the survey of literature was of much use in real life. At some point you just resign yourself to the fact that the first few lessons will probably suck, remind yourself that it will get better with each, and just jump in there

[pennylaneplainjane]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my post and give so many thoughtful and encouraging replies. I really needed a sounding board- I didn’t have anyone to talk to about this who would get it and who isn’t connected to the situation. I just reached out and ended the apprenticeship/teaching offer. I feel so relieved.

I want to express gratitude to you all, as I was second guessing myself earlier today about what had been occurring and if I should walk away. I did the right thing for myself and did it as gracefully I could.

I would say it was very reassuring to hear others agree the lesson trainer was aware of the behavior of the teens and whatever gossip was going around. It also didn’t occur to me that the strange reaction when they thought I mixed up the horses was likely a point of gossip/drama amongst the lesson program kids, trainer, parents, and whoever else later on. What a weird moment that was. This would have likely continued and prevented me from being comfortable to do the job. So glad I ended it going any further. I’m sure the fact that I decided to end it will be talked about for a few days, but when it’s over, it’s over. I also don’t care now that I won’t be working in that program.

While disappointing, It really wasn’t worth it. I can now focus on my other projects without anxiety of going to the barn.

I didn’t tell owner about what had been occurring and how it influenced the decision. Just said, “I think someone else with more experience will be a better fit,” which is true. I don’t know what or if owner has heard any of this and will be curious if I get asked more about it later. I know the owner would be very upset with trainer/kids if she knew that’s why I made this choice, but don’t think it would be in my best interest if I told her. I wouldn’t be surprised if she figures it out, but don’t expect her to lose other trainer unless there is more going on than I know about. Owner did express sadness I wasn’t doing it, but respected it. I let lesson instructor know I won’t be joining that side of the program anymore, but thanked her for her time.

I’ll post updates if anything else develops, but really think I dodged a bullet and can now enjoy what’s left of the summer

Thank you!

[pennylaneplainjane]

Lol @ the image of piranhas in a hot tub! Apprenticeship is needed for legal purposes (state). Although, I did get a little obsessed with teaching my myself to teach- and would have definitely needed to jump in (or be pushed!) and probably be a mess a few times before settling in. I know I’ll end of teaching when the time is right.

[Equkelly]

I think you made the right call but just wanted to add, teenagers can be unfair critics because at that age, to them, their trainer is the only one that knows anything about everything and any other adult who’s not their trainer, is a moron. They usually just haven’t been around the horse world long enough to understand that competent horse people can do things a little differently and that’s OK. They’ve probably only ever been with one or two trainers their whole life. Then they exaggerate things and then their parents hear about it and that’s probably why that mom even opened her mouth about how awful you were. Don’t sweat it. Teenagers are really just insecure know it all’s… don’t let them get to you.

IME, the best way to deal with them is to just talk to them like they’re adults and when they start their know-it-all attitude, about how you’re doing xyz wrong, don’t argue or play into the game. Just act unbothered and go “Huh I was always taught xyz this way because bla bla bla but that’s interesting you do it that way” or whatever. That way it doesn’t come across that you think you know better than them… even though you do.

I’ve learned to make peace with the barn teenagers… even though I’m super lucky that they are all good kids at my barn!

[Feathered_Feet]

@EmilyM

You don’t need this nonsense

I like this answer because it’s consistent with Occam’s razor - often the simplest answer is the correct one.

OP, whatever is actually going on behind the scenes, you don’t want none of that, and you don’t need that sh*t in your life. Walk away politely with a smile on your face. (Which it sounds like you did!)

[Bluey]

Some times is best not to argue with teenagers.
They are still kids inside, trying to be adults and not always getting it right.

One way to get out of arguing is the old “excuse me”, that requires them to think and repeat what they are saying and generally it comes out second time around better, less confrontational.
If not, repeat “excuse me”.
You know what they are saying and how doesn’t make sense or is not appropriately stated and you are asking them to try again.
Then you may have a better idea of what is really happening if they are honestly trying to help, or just looking to impress by being dramatic.

I think you do fine refusing to be part of where drama is encouraged, as it seems to be there.
Life is too short for that.

[brody]

And remember this isn’t personal. In that it’s not really about you. It’s about the barn and the trainer and the culture allowed to flourish there.
Hang in there you sound like a real asset to the right facility.

[punchy]

I have observed, more times than I care to remember, that many trainers/instructors established in a barn can be surprisingly insecure about new trainers/instructors they fear will muscle in on their territory. An unintended lesson learned from your apprenticeship

[S1969]

@brody

And remember this isn’t personal. In that it’s not really about you. It’s about the barn and the trainer and the culture allowed to flourish there.
Hang in there you sound like a real asset to the right facility.

This. If the trainer really wanted it to work, they would have made it clear to the students and “helpers” that the choice had been made, and regardless of your “apprenticeship” status - conferred power to you. Meaning, she would have set the tone, not allowed students to second guess you or talk about you, and set you up for success from the start.

Whatever is going on - you don’t need it.

[Moon_River]

Been there, done that, and was not interested in extending my participation in that programme. The two places I’ve seen it happen while I was training had instructors/owners whose egos were larger than their knowledge bases and the insecurity in what they were teaching to go along with that, and that fed in to the teenage population too who of course didn’t have many or any outside influences to see it for what it was. On the other hand I also trained at some fantastic really professional places, with instructors who didn’t always necessarily have any more knowledge than the drama queens but were realistic about their programmes and happy with where they were at that moment in time, which again filtered through to the teenagers that lessoned in those places too.

[furlong47]

@Moon_River

Been there, done that, and was not interested in extending my participation in that programme. The two places I’ve seen it happen while I was training had instructors/owners whose egos were larger than their knowledge bases and the insecurity in what they were teaching to go along with that, and that fed in to the teenage population too who of course didn’t have many or any outside influences to see it for what it was.

I’ve seen this a number of times in programs with young trainers (older teens or young to mid 20-somethings, often not much older than the teens they are teaching). The students desperately want to impress/befriend/idolize these trainers to the point of obsession, and you end up with a weird cliquey atmosphere where anyone who doesn’t conform is belittled and pushed out.

[Djones]

I did a brief gig part time at a local barn while between real jobs. I wanted the exercise and social aspect…what I got was exercise and drama. You know the Saddle Club tv show ? DH told me to write a book called Grown Up Saddle Party

[Willesdon]

The Captain sets the whole culture and morale of a ship. Good Captain, good ship.

[LilRanger]

I’m glad you took yourself out of that situation. My guess is that you are a very good teacher and the instructor realized that, and got jealous /paranoid, and undermined you.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the parent was sort of making you aware of the situation accidentally on purpose.