Are you sure you are all talking about the right horse?
He is listed at 16.3 hands, not any 18 hands?
Are you sure you are all taking about the right horse?
Anyone can google that before repeating something outrageous.
You donât like a horse, fine, but putting one down in public requires a bit more attention to providing the right facts.
The Only Escape is listed as 16.3 hands.
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No, MY horse is 18H with size 1 feet. I have no idea how tall the sire is. Sorry for the confusion!
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Hi sorry for the confusion. MY Horse is 18 hands with size one feet.
OP, I have studied face swirls for 50 years. I think swirls are 85% accurate in predicting how a horse will think and react. Short of a very long tutorial, I would want a stud with a face swirl between lines across the top and bottom of their eyes. Right above the top is the high limit for me, in general. We are talking horses that gallop around jumps, so not the same swirl as youâd want in a western pleasure horse. Unforgettableâs swirl was almost center of face left /right, a hair right, and just below top of eye. pretty simple pattern. Good swirl. The filly I bought had a swirl right at the top of her eyes, but over on the other side (viewerâs left) the self-assured side, almost a quarter inch . That, combined with it being a fairly simple star-burst shape, made me buy her, as I have had so many spooky, reactive horses. Very little bothers her. Ron Horn, her breeder, knows a bit about swirls, as most horseman do, and thought hers was high and I would not like her, but the self assured side placing and simple shape countered the height.
Just one more tool in the box, but you should check swirls on studs. It is one clue you can use as it is how their brain formed, is genetic, and nothing to do with training, chemical aids, or whatnot. Look for centered, or slightly left. A quarter inch either direction is a bit far, but more a problem to the viewerâs right - reactive side, (which many swirls are, as horses are flight animals for survival) no higher than at top of eyes unless it is a dead centered, simple round starburst with no tails up or down. Generally as simple as possible. The more complicated the swirl (pinwheels and double pinwheels ) the more complicated the horse, in my opinion and experience. Before anyone asks, double and triple swirls have to be assessed individually, and then figure out if they counter or reinforce each other.
Face swirls are a fun hobby. Started when I attended Linda Tellington-Jones riding camp when I was 15. (where I met Prudence, on COTH) I have learned lots more and used it to help pick studs and prospects ever since.
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I have followed TTeam for decades.
Some of that works fine, other, not so much.
The swirls is a theory in search of validation.
The problem, over decades and many horses, I have seen it work and not work about the same.
I had and know plenty of horses with perfect whorls that were/are tough horses, as many as super wonderful sensible ones.
I think there is more to disposition than only the placement of whorls.
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Bluey, I did say 85% accuracy, and I also have seen horses that were not their face swirls, but not many with swirls I would consider very good who were difficult. More with not-easy swirls who benefited from their excellent handling or training. It is one tool in an arsenal of horsemanship tools, most of which also are not 100%. Walk down the aisle of a top competition barn of any discipline, and you will not see face swirls that are contrary to that disciplineâs mentality requirements.
LT was not yet doing TTouch back then. That is a different expertise origin. Swirls came from Went Tellington, first husband, who had studied why the European Gypsys were such good horse traders.
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Very interesting all they do and brought to horsemanship.
I also know of them since long ago, before TTeam stuff.
I think we still have their first dark green horse booklets in the tack room bookcase, along with some of their newer stuff.
So much of it is so very good and has helped many do better for and with their horses.
Then, there is this, where they went when marketing themselves is a bit out there, as this one veterinarian dares point to:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/08/telâŠling-practice/
Yes, that voodoo part is hard to swallow.
Even with that, they sure have brought much good just by engaging people with their horses, under any banner that may have been.
You might want to check out âEasy on the Eyezâ, great looking stud (Protect your Assets x This is why Im Hot). Bred owned and trained by an amateur. Showing in HUS, Performance halter, Diving, and they have videos of him jumping on their Facebook page.
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The tough thing youâll face is that a good HUS stallion isnât necessarily good for an actual over fences hunter. Several of the stallions mentioned above would make an excellent english all-around or HUS horse, but a 16h horse with an 11â natural stride is going to be great for the HUS and eq on the flat, but life will be tough when you try to open their step to make it down a line of fences. Your mare has a bit of a longer back and shorter neck, so maybe look for a stallion that could help with those proportions.
A few that Iâve seen have successful progeny both on the flat and over fences are Iron Enterprise, Coats N Tails, Skyâs Blue Boy and Itâs All About Blue. Coats N Tails, Do You Have a Minute, and Next Detail are all quite popular with the over fences ammys, and the Iron Enterprise horses have done really well in the futurities this year.
I saw DGS Replicated last week, he is not lighter-boned, he was pretty beefy - so I wouldnât be afraid of crossing him with a lighter-boned mare. I didnât see him go around, so canât pass judgment on his actual showing / temperment in the pen, but he was well-mannered and quiet on the ground.
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Only two of the above stallions are still living, so baring $$$ frozen semen, not stud prospects for the OP. Which is the problem, as by the time you love their multiple get over fences, they are gone. Sometimes you just have to travel to shows like the Congress and take a look at the upcoming studs or first year foals that are showing over fences.
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Well darn, now I really feel old. Apparently Iâm like 10 years out of date on hunter stallions.
I have a young mare by The Krymsun Kruzer and out of a Skyâs Blue Boy dam. She has 10+ hunter movement, is super well built, and is brave. TKK is a good cross on many thoroughbred mares as he tends to add more bone/body and an ammy friendly mind. I took mine to a HJ show for experience as a yearling, and even went in a hunter breeding clinic that ended up being 3 hours long and she did great.
For over fences/HUS, Iâve also liked offspring by Allocate Your Assets, Iron Enterprise, Natural Iron, Art I Sweet, and The Next Detail.
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I just watched DGS Vintage show at Congress in Jr Wk Hunter - 3â class. Very nice smooth round with plenty of stride. I would give him a shot as an unproven stud, especially with his lower early booking fee. DeGraff Stables is a very experienced stud manager and semen shipper.
Truly Priceless is one of my favorites â Alice was brought along by his amateur owner (who also owns Theres No Telling, another one of my favorites!).
He is a new stallion and is unshown due to injury, but I am starting to see a bit about Badd Romance who is a big boy, very lofty with great bone. Big roan boy Iâm keeping an eye on.
I always think itâs interesting to see these threads. I think social media has really skewed the market for a lot of the HUS horses. There are some stallions advertising non-stop who havenât really produced like you would assume, and there are some flying under the radar that you could breed a donkey to and get a winner.
Unfortunately, people canât speak out about the bad ones. You really have to do your research and talk to a lot of people you trust. Even then, you might end up with something you didnât expect.
I know the dam of one of the sires listed in this thread; she was crazy with a capital C. The foals I saw out of her seemed to kind of recognize that mom was nutty and even as babies steered clear of her when they could, but while it seems they maybe didnât inherit the nutty - I donât think Iâd ever breed to that line because I canât pinpoint where it came from or where it might pop up again.
I own two daughters of a popular HUS sire - both are wonderfully athletic and Iâm super excited to get them going over fences, but in my experience the dam side personality really shows through and you have to be incredibly careful with your cross. The one with Donât Skip Zip dam lines has been so easy. The other one needs Xanax and probably pro rides until sheâs a senior horse.
I used to own a son of Skys Blue Boy who is now standing in Nebraska. He has an older daughter who is showing over fences with her either older youth or college aged amateur and doing well. I sold him in fall 2017 to his current owners, but I cannot say enough about how GREAT minded that horse is and heâs producing very amateur friendly foals. There arenât many showing, and I donât know if any have made it to the HUS at the Congress or World Shows - but the new owners are doing a great job of promoting what they can. I would have kept him had he carried overo. :winkgrin: Heâs a shining example of a horse that isnât promoted, but comes from really solid lines and has excellent, though small numbers of, offspring.
There are some other horses listed in thread that are PHENOMENAL show horses themselves, but they havenât really produced anything. Theyâve had winners, sure, but 5-6 winners out of 100 foals born arenât great odds. You have to, have to, have to⊠and I canât stress this enough⊠have to do your research on what is actually being produced on the crosses that exist. If you can, go see them in person. Go meet them. Watch them. Talk to the people who work with them and train them. Do not rely on fancy ads or marketing material or what people on Facebook say.
Thereâs one horse thatâs been heavily promoted who didnât have but maybe a single foal show at any of the majors this year. Turns out, that they break down and go lame when they have to stay on concrete for more than a couple of days. You wouldnât know it, based on how many people still recommend him, but if you do the proper research, youâll see the writing on the wall.
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Can I ask you which stud you sold to Nebraska? I have a mare I think will cross well with a sbb line, plus I get along well with them (my last two horses have been that breeding with a great amount of success). Also, which stud are your current horses by? Thank you in advance.
Another stud to consider that is not known yet is One Notch Above. Heâs only 3 and congress is his third show. He is in a tiny barn being shown by the trainer that bred, raised and trained him. But he is a very quiet, well mannered stud that is an AMAZING mover naturally. She is teeing him up for a big 4yo year as he is still growing so he may not be standing next year but I would put him on your radar. He is a Hubba x an allocate x sbb mare. He is a big, tall, big boned black stud that will performance halter as well. Heâs in Oklahoma.
Walk N On Sunshine. I used to ride him around my place, he was pastured with my geldings, and is just absolutely a gentleman. Again, if I was breeding AQHA instead of APHA, I never would have sold him. I believe he has a website and a Facebook page.
My fillies are by Living Large.
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Thanks. I will look into him. Unfortunately living large wonât work for me as my mare is appendix and canât get her regular papers due to a freak pasture accident. Missing one dang open point. Even though she qualified for world in amateur hus and showmanship and l2 junior. Oh well. Still lots of studs out there.
For some reason I have a feeling I know which studs you are talking about with the lameness issues and crazy dam. If not there are two of each of them as Iâve had discussions about that same subject with people as well unfortunately.
