AQHA lost cloning/registration case

[City_Ponies]

[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;7103661]
They are missing a whole bunch. Royal Blue Boon has been cloned, as have a few other cutting mares. There are also rumors of another pleasure stallion that has already been cloned…but those are rumors.[/QUOTE]

You know what I find interesting is that is clone market is vastly aimed at cutting/reining/barrel horses. Which is a bit ironic because the only way to earn money on these horses are through NCHA, NHRA, And NBHA… none of which require registration. And there is very little incentive to show in AQHA only events except to win a title. The big money is in the open events. And if you ask any rodeo competitor around here they will tell you papers mean nothing if you cant win the 1D barrel jackpot. Of course the good bloodlines are these famous QH but are they really gaining anything by breeding to a clone versus a proven son?

I wonder if it will gain popularity with in the actual QH show industry people, pleasure and hunt seat riders. IO and possibly ZMGB would be my hedge bets to be the big ones,

[bugsynskeeter]

[QUOTE=City Ponies;7103688]
You know what I find interesting is that is clone market is vastly aimed at cutting/reining/barrel horses. Which is a bit ironic because the only way to earn money on these horses are through NCHA, NHRA, And NBHA… none of which require registration. And there is very little incentive to show in AQHA only events except to win a title. The big money is in the open events. And if you ask any rodeo competitor around here they will tell you papers mean nothing if you cant win the 1D barrel jackpot. Of course the good bloodlines are these famous QH but are they really gaining anything by breeding to a clone versus a proven son?

I wonder if it will gain popularity with in the actual QH show industry people, pleasure and hunt seat riders. IO and possibly ZMGB would be my hedge bets to be the big ones,[/QUOTE]

I think the only thing holding the QH show people back is the fact that there isn’t as much $$ in breeding those horses compared to the reining/cutting/speed event horses. Look at stud fees alone. IO is the most expensive at $8500 (with on site breeding only).

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the people bringing the suit against AQHA were dealing with QH racing horses…that might be the difference.

[City_Ponies]

I believe 2 of the stallions currently standing are race bred, I think he intends on cloning if not already First Down Dash. They have a High Brow Cat and maybe a PeptoBoonsmal too. If the suit was indeed racing inspired I’m not sure where the financial outcome is really going to be. Yes I can see a $25k stud fee put on a FDD clone. But the industry itself is dwindling in comparison to the move to cow horses. And realistically let’s stir up this pot… whats from stopping this guy from cloning Storm Cat or Rachel Alexandra and calling foul against the Jockey Club now?

[bugsynskeeter]

[QUOTE=City Ponies;7103761]
I believe 2 of the stallions currently standing are race bred, I think he intends on cloning if not already First Down Dash. They have a High Brow Cat and maybe a PeptoBoonsmal too. If the suit was indeed racing inspired I’m not sure where the financial outcome is really going to be. Yes I can see a $25k stud fee put on a FDD clone. But the industry itself is dwindling in comparison to the move to cow horses. And realistically let’s stir up this pot… whats from stopping this guy from cloning Storm Cat or Rachel Alexandra and calling foul against the Jockey Club now?[/QUOTE]

Wasn’t there an reference to a famous TB stud that they had a clone of? My money was on SC…lord knows why we need a clone of him.

[Bluey]

Whoever mentioned the jury may not have known about horses, first, here many do know about horses, so possibly some did.
Even if no one did, to inform the jury is the attorneys job and I am sure both sides saw to that.

[City_Ponies]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7103869]
Whoever mentioned the jury may not have known about horses, first, here many do know about horses, so possibly some did.
Even if no one did, to inform the jury is the attorneys job and I am sure both sides saw to that.;)[/QUOTE]

This is true. And in fairness the suit dealt with antitrust laws which I’m sure was more foreign to jurors than horses. I know AQHA released a statement today that they will appeal this to the last possible moment. At which case non one will breed to these clones for fear of “being kicked out of the club” if it gets overturned. Another proposition is a separate registry allowing for open cross entering to AQHA events. Something along the lines of a temporary registration in which horses can be grandfathered into regular studbook over time. Somewhat along the lines of how APHA was formed and then over turn of the white rule and allowing any horse with full QH lines paint or not back into as they did 2 years ago.

An interesting thought I read from another member was, will there be “cloning rights” sold by breeders to buyers of top show horses? Who owns the genetics, the breeders or owners? Do you have to pay more to clone? Will breeders retain cloning right s? Obviously all crazy talk but it does spark some interesting thought. Not too long ago no one would’ve thought retaining a mares embryos was part of a sale.

[RiddleMeThis]

[QUOTE=BayRoan;7102630]
Carol Harris is still producing Rugged Lark foals with frozen semen, as the McQuays are with Hollywood Dun It frozen semen.

On the cloning issue, as a long time AQHA member, I have a couple of concerns. First, the clone not only carries the DNA of the donor horse, but also the mitochondrial DNA of the egg used to create the clone. Mitochondrial DNA contains at least 13 active genes. Research is still showing how these genes help control gene expression, and regulate other aspects of the individual organism. I don’t want arabian, belgian, whatever, mDNA floating around in my Quarter Horse. I think the donor eggs should be from AQHA or JC registered horses, and the donor should be noted on the papers of the clone.

Second, current DNA/parentage verification techniques used by the association do not detect mDNA. I believe the offspring of a clone could easily be passed off as offspring of the original. If clones are to be registered, they ought to be freeze branded along the neck with the alpha angle system, much like blm horses, half arabians, and the ApHC cpo horses were, once upon a time. It won’t prohibit all underhanded shenanigans, but at least it would identify the individual, in the flesh.[/QUOTE]

mDNA is only passed on by the female line not the male line. So any of your offspring by a cloned QH STALLION, is NOT going to have any other DNA.
So, even if they did use mDNa in the parentage verification check, its not going to prove if it’s the clone or the original because the stallion wouldn’t pass mDNA.

And while yes, mDNA may control some of the genes, its not adding genes to the DNA that will be passed from the stallion, so whether its an AQHA mare or Draft mare the DNA is still the same.

[belambi]

I know that I have HUGE issues with the fact that at least one of the stallions who have already been cloned are herda positive. To me that is a non ethical use of cloning, to purposely recreate a genetic defective mutation.

[JB]

Smart Little Lena is a carrier - cloned 5 times.

It’s no worse than allowing those to be bred. The only ok-ness about this is one can still breed selectively and simply don’t breed 2 carriers. A carrier does’t have health issues, like a hetero HYPP horse does. HERDA is more similar to LWO - just fine in the hetero form, don’t breed 2 of them together.

HERDA just has no visible symptoms like Frame often does (in the hetero state, obviously)

[RiddleMeThis]

[QUOTE=belambi;7109004]
I know that I have HUGE issues with the fact that at least one of the stallions who have already been cloned are herda positive. To me that is a non ethical use of cloning, to purposely recreate a genetic defective mutation.[/QUOTE]
The same could be said about Appy horses since LP causes night blindness.