One of the complaints that has surfaced over the years about ARM is the fact that on several occasions the President of the rescue has absorbed horses she actively rescued into her own breeding program.
Kind of like how she absorbed rescue money she actively begged for into her own bank account.
Sheilah
[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7999088]
One of the complaints that has surfaced over the years about ARM is the fact that on several occasions the President of the rescue has absorbed horses she actively rescued into her own breeding program.
Kind of like how she absorbed rescue money she actively begged for into her own bank account.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]
Seems a valid complaint re breeding, look at ‘owner’
The farm website where he is states ‘Private Treaty’ and ‘would make a fabulous breeding stallion’.
{not saying this horse was a ‘rescue’ but what rescue breeds?]
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7997154]
Oh you’re right, but that was not what I was remembering.
They also worked closely with AC4H. As if that doesn’t instantly make you suspicious.
But that’s also not what I was remembering.
I was remembering the lady I horse sit for asking me about 3 horses locally living on scrub weeds that hadn’t been mowed in forever, no hay, no grain, nothing… in a barbed wire enclosure with no shelter [not legally required] and only a stream for a water source… in the heat and bug infested summer, without fly spray.
Just this past summer.
Turns out they had come to NY without coggins and iirc without verification of vaccinations.
From Arabian Rescue Mission.
Charming organization.
I hope they care for these 6 better than they did those 3 I saw this summer.[/QUOTE]
They were also involved with that crazy scammer Sherry(s) with Peace of Mind Rescue in TN.
Like attracts like.
Ah apparently ARM Pres got the Imhotep horse and another stallion from a breeder who was going under apparently… but let’s keep breeding them…
She suggests she will allow both to remain stallions. One of them to breed and this Najeeb horse to sell as a breeding [you can only see the below via the cache version to go direct gives you an eyeful and then some- charming ABN]
Then there’s EastWest Arabians, housed in the same barn as ARM… Facebook page is still up, discussing all the stallions she has for breedings for 2014
I think in light of the “bidding against private buyers” it needs to be said here:
MOST of the horses going through any auction, any day, are not “at risk.” They are there to be sold to a new owner, period, which is what auctions are FOR. People have been buying and selling nice, usable, (and sometimes problematical) horses at auction since the dawn of time and there is nothing abusive, evil, or irresponsible about it. It’s where buyers go to connect with sellers and try to find something they want or need. For many, “flipping” at a profit is a sport!
Yes, if someone tries to unload a lame or dangerous horse that way they have some ethics problems, and it’s always a “buyer beware” crapshoot; but not only ALL our old schoolies but some of my nicest personal horses besides ALL came through at least one auction and that is how we acquired them. Not everyone has a “horse dealer” locally let alone one they’d be willing to trust, and many of us have seen horrendous “private” deals where owners lied, information was withheld, horses drugged, etc.
The ONLY horses a non-profit “rescue” should be picking up at auction are the ones TRULY of interest to KB’s who didn’t make their reserve or didn’t have one; that generally does not include grays, minis and small ponies, most drafters or stallions at this time. If a “rescue” is trying to out-bid viable private buyers, there’s another agenda going on here which maybe their donors and accountants want to know about.
I disagree a bit with the above post. MANY horses that go to auction and sell with no reserve go to the killer buyer. Arabians, Throughbreds, anything unregistered, plain colored, old, or not ridden are high risk horses. It is common for backyard trail riders to pick up horses at auctions. Anything registered, colored, or gaited has a good chance.
However, it is VERY obvious which bidders are kill buyers and MANY of them will stop bidding if a private buyer raises their hand. I know all our local kill buyers visually. I do agree that a rescue shouldn’t drive prices up against legitimate buyers.
They’ll fund raise on these horses until the cows come home, bringing in a great deal more money than they’ll ever put out on them. Well meaning, but clueless people will send in their “dribbles” and never question motive because they have stars in their eyes over “saving circus horses”.
Sheilah
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7999294]
MOST of the horses going through any auction, any day, are not “at risk.” [/QUOTE]
:eek:
Did she seriously just say that? head desk
I did, and I’ll stand by it. ONE PERCENT of all horses in the U.S. ship to slaughter every year. Where do the rest go? New owners.
Want to make that number ZERO? Lobby Washington for passage of the SAFE act. Failing that, we all do the best we can. How many rescue horses in YOUR barn, TTSP? I’ve got FIVE right now, mine and a boarder’s.
Put your money where your mouth is.
[QUOTE=ThisTooShallPass;7999656]
:eek:
Did she seriously just say that? head desk[/QUOTE]
Yes, apparently a lot of people just deny that horses go to slaughter. They must all find “forever homes,” just like all the TBs on the track must not break down ind die in training as well as in races. Denial is such an easy thing, but IRL, horses go to slaughter all the time. No I do not believe in breeding. Period. And I’ve owned horses that people begged to lease to breed. No way till there’s a waiting list to buy every horse.
That one percent you are referring to however, does not apply to auctions. If a kill buyer could only get one horse out of 100 brought to an auction, he’d be out of business. Reality overrides fiction every time.
I am HARDLY in denial as to the realities of auctions, and I blame overbreeding and undertraining by people seeking tax shelters, hoarder/compulsive breeders,
and the Amish who breed horses that don’t translate well to non-Amish uses.
It seems at the moment we also have ridiculous overbreeding of minis and donkeys.
The figure of 1-2% per year shipped for slaughter is the best estimate of the large national agencies like AAEP and USDA who monitor such things, I didn’t make it up. NO ONE would like to see horse slaughter ended more than me. Back in the 70’s and 80’s believe me those figures were a great deal higher. We are within sight today of FINALLY of ending this if horse owners would agree to get it done!
So instead of snotty snipes at other COTH’ers, write out a letter and mail it to your Senator and Representative, asking them to support the SAFE act. Then write out a check to the nearest legitimate rescue that pulls, retrains, and places horses from auctions. Maybe enough for a week’s worth of hay in this winter weather. Then you MIGHT have some minor cred to preach to me, OK?
Just one question. CIrcus horses are usually very well trained and don’t go to auction. Gad these were saved (apparently), but are you certain they were, indeed, circus animals? And a group of mares at that - seems more likely a breeder that culled his mare herd?
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8000672]
asking them to support the SAFE act. [/QUOTE]
You are aware of the fact that with a new session in Congress there currently is no SAFE Act.
And since Mary Landrieu was not re-elected in her state of Louisiana, we first have to find someone else to introduce a new version of the SAFE Act.
What was that again about cred?
I wouldn’t believe anything that the new operators of the auction would say about the horses in their care. They may be former circus horses, or they may be horses someone threw away.
Won’t know anything until the people at the rescue post updates, if any…
[QUOTE=lorilu;8000822]
Just one question. CIrcus horses are usually very well trained and don’t go to auction. Gad these were saved (apparently), but are you certain they were, indeed, circus animals? And a group of mares at that - seems more likely a breeder that culled his mare herd?[/QUOTE]
That was my thought to begin with. I know a guy who trains circus animals (horses, zebras, camels, whatever) - their prices reflect the amount of training. A group of 6 liberty horses seems an unlikely lot to be dumped.
If the OP hadn’t been from New Zealand, I would have flagged it as a blatant ad.
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;8000436]
That one percent you are referring to however, does not apply to auctions. If a kill buyer could only get one horse out of 100 brought to an auction, he’d be out of business. Reality overrides fiction every time.[/QUOTE]
Are you statistically challenged? I didn’t say “1 in 100” at an AUCTION–I said 1% of the U.S. Horse POPULATION; the vast majority of whom at any given day are not going through an auction.
For heaven’s sake, what we ALL want are responsible homes and better care for ALL horses, and I’m not seeing where that is furthered by taking potshots at each other when we’re actually all on the same page. I’ll bow out of this thread here.
It’s my understanding (from very credible sources) there is something interesting going on in Washington which will circumvent the need for a new SAFE Act.
Fingers crossed.
[QUOTE=Rivendellhorses;8000946]
I wouldn’t believe anything that the new operators of the auction would say about the horses in their care. They may be former circus horses, or they may be horses someone threw away.
Won’t know anything until the people at the rescue post updates, if any…[/QUOTE]
What I find interesting about the new owners is that the additional fees charged on top of the ‘price’ of their #10 horses the rescue group promotes… is not general knowledge, at least not last I checked.
It used to be when they listed the #10 horses they offered the price, and then the additional fees Frank was adding on, to give you a total out the door cost.
Not so much anymore.
Makes me suspicious.
Just to share…the new “owners” don’t actually own the property. They are renting it…
Frank and Monica are in Ky, as Frank needs to retire.
The people running the new auction do NOT have a good reputation in this area (She calls her lesson students her “cult” …
)
But she does have the gift of sales. She is one of those people that could sell ice to an Eskimo. Which is not great when selling horses.
I don’t see them lasting.
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