While I we do see some excelling at dressage and being quite good at it, are there Lusitano lines that are purposefully breeding for dressage? It seems to me, I am seeing more of them here lately on the dressage scene. My trainer and her barn work with several PRE’s and I am wondering how they compare. I am just curious and wanting to learn more about the breed. Any personal experiences working with them compared to other types favored for dressage, and links to any breeding info would be helpful. Thanks
I currently own a Lusitano; it is my understanding that they are not purpose bred for dressage, and in fact are fairly multi purpose working horses. (google working equitation and pedro torres - fun to watch). They can do well in dressage because, like the PREs they have the ability to collect. The differences I see are as follows: the PRE has been historically bred to be a “fancier” mover - more knee action, more tendency to paddle. Some PREs I know of are long in the back.
Way back there was one registry; then separation, and it is said that the PRE was bred to “go to church” and the Lusitano to work - ie bullfighting.
I believe the dispositions are similar - good work ethic, learn quickly. They are sensitive and sometimes the brain goes quicker than you want. They ride differently than a WB, and can easily get to quick if allowed. For the most part both breeds are considered level headed, and mine is a rock - bravest most unflappable horse I’ve owned.
Mine came from Brazil - Haras Villa do Retiro. another large breeder is Interagro, also in Brazil. Yes they are getting more popular. If you want a big moving, big horse, a Lusitano may not be for you, but I’m on the short side, and moving over the hill age wise. Mine is 15.3 hands. Some are bigger but mostly under 16.2. I love this horse, I bought him about 2 years ago at 13. He got me my silver medal, and we will go to regionals this fall; working on Intermediare. I can hack him anywhere. I would buy another in a heartbeat.
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I find PREs and Lusitanos to be beautifully bred for the over 50s!
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I can speak of differences I have noted between riding a purpose bred (for dressage) WB and a PRE. I do not have so much experience with Lusitanos, but I was considering either a PRE or Lusitano when I bought my PRE. I just happened to find the PRE first.
There are probably some purpose bred Lusitanos out there, but few. In my understanding they are multi purpose horses as mentioned above, intelligent, and responsive. They are naturally, IMO, light to ride and easier to collect. After riding a few, I have no doubt that they could excel at dressage and perform very accurate tests with a correct rider. However, they won’t have the big floaty trot of the WB, or big floating exaggerated extensions. They will probably be more comfortable to ride than the floaty WB with tons of suspension in its gaits.
I prefer my PRE to my WB due to his intelligence, sensitivity, natural lightness, and he’s just easier! He is very sensitive though. I would not call him spooky, but he is aware. However, he is only 5 with less than a year under saddle. My WB took a lot of strength to ride, he was not quick, deadheaded, or heavy, but just a different ride and movement. The PRE I can do the same work with, and it is not as physically exerting.
For me, I will probably never own a WB again, but I would own another PRE or consider a Lusitano, I prefer the shorter, compact, more comfortable, and lighter ride. I really think the only draw back is the fact that the Lusitano and PRE do not always have the size or suspension of the big WB, which can make them not as competitive in the dressage ring (to some).
The Spanish and Portuguese bred a horse that they wanted to be comfortable, handleable, responsive, practical, and intelligent. All of those characteristics happen to fall in line with what can make a good dressage horse. Conformation plays a role as well. So think about multi purpose working or even bull fighting, the horse has to complete a variety of athletic maneuvers involving collection, just like in dressage.
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CanteringCarrot - good summary. From a competition perspective a buyer needs to think about their goals. I wanted to ride FEI - not necessarily aspiring to GP but PSG/I-1. I want my results to be respectable in our area, but dont need to win. If I can get consistent scores in comfortably into the 60’s that’s great. We have a pro near here who has a lovely PRE stallion, scoring high 60’s - 70+ at GP.
What I also want is a horse that is FUN to ride, that makes me smile, and he’s handsome besides. More than one trainer would take him in a heartbeat if I would ever let go, lol.
Not all WB are purpose bred for dressage. There are jumping lines. And not all WB are of the same quality. We are well into the era of backyard breeder WB and all kinds of North American registries with lower bars for entry.
Is a Canadian Sport Horse or an American Warmblood going to be better at dressage than the average Quarter Horse? Yes. Is the CSH or AWB going to be FEI material? Possibly but my guess is not. In any case you really need to look at the horse in front of you.
IME the size of the WB gaits means you can ride them in ways that deteriorate the quality of the gait, yet still look at OK. Rolled btv, under tempo, on the forehand, sucked back.
Do this with an Iberian and you will get a pony trot. And an angry horse.
But I’ve seen a number of baroque style horses schooled up to reach for the bit, collect, and extend and then have lovely correct totally balanced extended trots.
I expect that the baroque horses would do less well in walk trot and training, or indeed suited for or materials classes as those are more.about raw trot in a green horse.
But a baroque horse that had its trot schooled and improved could shine at the higher levels where collection matters. And the piaffe and canter pirouette are pretty much factory installed on some.
That said there is a vast range in quality of gait and conformation among Iberian horses, which I saw watching inhand at the IALHA show. Some floated some pranced some had flatter gaits.
There was a big bump in backyard breeding of Iberian horses about a decade ago. Plus I understand the Mexican American communities on the US West coast breed a lot for their own use. So not all Iberians would be coming out of dressage breeding programs.
And while any Iberian (just like any WB) is going to beat any QH at dressage, you do need to look at the horse in front of you.
As for the Iberian vs WB. Depends on the horse, the training, the rider. At the international GP level it does seem like the judging criteria have evolved to favor the talents of the very high quality WB over the very high quality baroque horse, IE gaits over collection. But in the middling ammie levels riding and training are the real deciding factors.
We all know more than one middle aged lady who got herself a talented young WB and didn’t make it to Level One even before she got injured or terrified to ride. The big gaits are nothing if you can’t ride them. And if you need to keep choking the horse back so you don’t get bounced out of the tack then things will not go well.
In the long run the rider who is well suited with an Iberian is going to do far better than all the folks who wash out with WB!
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The PRE is bred for a riding horse and can do competitive dressage with the right training (extensions).
I was told by a breeder Lusitanos and Andalusians were purpose bred for bravery.
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Good call.
Thanks for all of the responses guys!
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The reason I got my PRE is that I knew that with a decent one I was just about guaranteed it could to do the upper level work and score respectabley at least. And since I’d like to have a fighting chance to ride FEI, I went with a PRE.
With the warmbloods I was seeing available at the time, with the same temperament, same level headedness, same talent and same likelihood of getting to FEI, they were WAY over my budget.
Currently, as we are just starting to show, we are doing ok, but not spectacular. My trainer, as well as a couple others, have said that he will really shine at 2nd, but best above that. And that often the Iberians can do great with the upper levels, due to the collected work. Just to give you an idea, my boy uses passage as an evasion, its that easy for him (And it’s a good passage already, it’ll be great once confirmed).
What I’ve been told by a few people who know their Iberians, is that if you’re looking for a dressage horse, you have to look at the lines. The PREs have dressage lines that go back far. But they also have the “parade” horses, which tend to be the ones with the more severe paddling/fancier front feet. The Lusitanos have the bull fighting lines which tend to be hotter and more independent thinking. And the dressage lines.
That was a bit simplified explaination and not all individuals fall cleanly into these catergories, but it’s a very general guideline.
Plus, the biggest bonus is that my PRE has the sweetest, most social nature, and people oriented personality I’ve ever met. He makes me smile every single day.
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2tempe, I also have a Do Retiro!!
I discovered the Iberian horses a few years ago. I started with an andalusian and now have a two Lusos. I think some of the Lusos - like the ones from Do Retiro and Interago - are purpose bred for dressage - they are marketed extensively to the US dressage market. However, there are other lines - like the Viega lines - that are traditionally bullfighting bred. My second horse Lutador is Viega lines and he could not be more different from Brave Do Retiro. Lutador was ruined by a dressage trainer as a young horse - ridden like a WB - later did not much but trail ride, was fixed by a talented trainer, and now he is mine. He is smart, in your pocket (Iberian trait) - but very much more “aware” than Bravo - he knows what is going on at all times. He is VERY brave. His gaits are shorter and quicker,
and he is very quick to go sideways - - all bred in via the bullfighting lineage. My goal for him is Working Equitation.
So yes, IMO some are purpose bred but others are not.
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The other responses have been great so I’ll just add one more piece to it, hoping it will be helpful and not simply confusing. This is a slightly complex question since the Lusitano breed contains such a variety of distinct types. A simple answer would be that some of them are and some of them aren’t.
Lusitanos have traditionally been bred for collection and temperament but there are variations within the breed. If you visit 10 stud farms in Portugal you might find 10 different types of Lusitano, so different from one another that within Portugal they often refer to the lineage of the horse instead of the breed. To use two common examples, an Andrade has more bone and is more calm, whereas a Veiga is more reactive & agile. Some lines & individuals are more baroque and suited to high levels of collection, some more toromachic (bullfighting type), and in modern times there are the sport types which can resemble warmbloods. There are others that, as others have mentioned, are all-around or working types. While all of these types can be spectacular, not all would be physically or temperamentally suited to international competition.
These days, there are breeders of Lusitanos who aim to produce competitive dressage horses. However, it’s not uncommon that they stray from the actual breed standard in order to compete with warmbloods. There are some breeders who manage to keep to breed standard & sell competitive horses. The riding put on them makes a big difference as well, since they cannot be ridden like warmbloods.
Much of what you see in the US is imported from Brazil, where they are breeding for dressage and often specifically for amateur riders. Those horses differ from what is produced in Portugal, which is different from what is being bred in France, Germany, etc. All of those countries have studs that breed Lusitanos for dressage and others who have different goals in mind for their horses.
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Levitate: Very helpful, not confusing at all. Personally, if I buy another, I will prefer one that is consistent w/ breed standards. Our barn gets some winter clients; one has a PRE that looks nothing like a PRE, Taller, lighter, different movement - guessing he was bred to be more warmblood-like
Wow, this is so interesting! Thanks for sharing!
A fellow client of my trainer has a looooovely Lusitano from Brazil. He’s gorgeous, but also has an amazing brain - perfect for an amateur (though he is sensitive). I’m definitely a fan!
Yes, thanks you Levitate! Very informative! I can understand a bit of having sensitive, alert mounts, as well as extensive lineage research, as I have arabs, but as they are getting older and winding down, I am planning for my next and first serious dressage horse. Current trainer, as said works with PRE’s but I have had a few people mention Luso’s, one particular friend who knows a breeder in Mexico that regularly sends nice youngens up here that are looking fabulous doing dressage and moving up through the levels. I am just dipping my toes in the knowledge and taking more of an interest because I like what I see and hear.
I have a Lusitano x Trak (yes, she is sensitive and fairly hot, but is also a total worker and will do anything for her person). I would absolutely seek out a working-type Lusitano in the future (I don’t need tall or warmblood-y). BTW, I really like Arabians myself, so I think you might enjoy the Lusitano mind and quickness. Depending on where you are located, you may be able to visit a breeder and perhaps sit on one or two.
IME, if you like and get along well with Arabians, you will probably like an Iberian horse too.
I have experience with both and the common traits I have seen have been easy to ride/sit gaits, sensitive yet sensible, people oriented, and there are some good movers without having to ride a large Warmblood. I almost wanted to say hot, but it’s not a true hot IMO. They can turn it on and off. When my PRE gets a little hot, or when I was flying around on a park horse who was about ready to breathe fire, I never felt in danger or out of control. I don’t know how to best describe that feeling.
I am not sure what my horse was bred for, I think working lines, but I am an ammy that buys the horse in front of her. I mostly bought him for his brains. Good enough movement and conformation too. I think he embodies a traditional Andalusian horse that is shorter, stout, solid, a little cresty, slight Roman nose, and lots of hair lol
So while you could seek a purpose bred horse, I wouldn’t limit your potential shopping venture to just those. I think there are some that could go really high into the levels without a specific dressage pedigree.
Now that I have gone Iberian, I don’t know that I can own anything else :lol: I was never that into Iberian horses until I was actually working with them myself. I bought my PRE as a potential ammy friendly resale, but I think that is no longer the case due to my personal liking of the horse.
But like I said, I think the step from Arabian to PRE or Lusitano will be one that you’ll enjoy due to breed characteristics.
I got my PRE mare for similar reasons. She’s smart, sane, sensitive without being stupid and flashy. There’s no way I could have afforded her in a WB package. Now if only I could get my health together we can actually go out and compete! But I love that she’s in such spondaic work right now and she doesn’t change from ride to ride.
I rode a few Lusitano’s while in Spain when I was horse hunting. As others have stated, it really depends on the line. But temperament wise I could not fault any of the ones I rode. They were super switched on and while not flashy movers, they were very correct and very easy to collect. I’m very sold on the Iberian breeds now. I don’t think I’ll ever go back to a Warmblood.
I really agree with this description. It’s not hot like Thoroughbred hot. But it can involve unrequested cantering backwards or canter pirourettes when it bubbles over lol!
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I’ve had my Viega line Lusi for 5 years. Quite talented in the dressage ring, LOVES being around people. It took him till he was 8 to mature mentally. Quick to react, and just as quick to settle down. He is very much aware of what goes on around him, and feeds off the energy. I would buy another short and hairy Lusi in a heartbeat.
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