Are mares really worth it?

[shall]

@Cowgirl

but I will say ALL of the geldings I have back right off when you make a correction.

You could say, too, that some horses just have a lot more energy to put into their time on this planet. Has anyone ever had the busy animal that is just more of everything. I haven’t found that sex or neutering changes things completely. I’ve had a boss gelding on my then farmette. He was a benevolent, older, Arabian who saw things that needed to change. The others were all younger and followed his lead.

I’ve also seen my grown to 11 year colt (mare’s foal) that had that same energy. He just had to be busy and still has his head in everything. My mare had to accept limits due to being a 14 3 Arabian in turnout groups, but she always had a great relationship with the boss. She was lively and bold to ride. Want to go on a solo trail ride at a new place, she was your girl. I had her since she was 3 until 14, and we worked through lots of stuff. She was always reliable, just like her colt. In her younger years, her take over behaviors were to get us out of Dodge if she ran across something spook/dangerous and that always included bringing her rider with her. As well as dropping some of her acting out around the barn, she matured into a lovely, accepting, get along type. She became a lesson horse for beginners, just like her half warm blood son who is my main ride these days.

I think it is the individual horse. As a kid, my starter horses were a hot grade horse (ex barrel horse), and off track Thoroughbreds, so that is the type I tend to know something personal about. They can need to be busy.

[mvp]

I took SonnysMom’s point about how it might be hard/unfair for a mare accustomed to 24/7 TO to living in a stall for a week at a show.

Yeah, but 1. So what?; and 2. They can be taught.

A side rant: I have a new gelding now who has mainly been kept in mixed herds. I know he has lived in a stall at some point in his life (as he had been started as a two-year-old by a name-brand pro). But the poor munchkin sucked at living in a paddock alone where I put him and then took some time to figure out living in a stall. What bummed me out is that no one had taught this horse how to make peace with the rather normal request that he live alone or in a stall. Do I want him to live that way all the time? No. But I don’t think a horse needs to come unglued because of it. There’s a difference between “I don’t like living in a stall, but I get it,” and “OMG I’m going to die in this trap; I ought to fight for my life because I have nothing left to lose.”

I have raised 'em from babies and ridden a lot of horses for other people and boarded a lot. You learn that these animals don’t know how to live the way we want, just “out of the box.” Rather, you have to teach them things. That means, IMO, that horses can be taught to live in stalls (though I think it’s unreasonable to stable a horse next to one that makes him/her feel defensive 24/7). They can be taught to stand tied, leave others on a trail ride, take a trailer ride alone. But we have to put in the time to teach them that they can cope with these things.

[eightpondfarm]

i have a 20 yr old Morgan mare that suffers bereavement. Both her mother and her uncle have passed away and no other horse will do. I tried her with each of the incoming horses i’ve adopted, with each of them singularly to see if she could ‘click’ with any of them. Nothing. She would leave them cold. Then came the 18h Percheron with stringhalt. Big, black, smart! loving boy. He just wouldn’t take “no” for an answer. If she moves, he follows. If she gets away from him, he trots around whinnying in panic until she eventually shows herself/returns his call. She’s a bad wife, but she’s HIS wife and he adores her. I’ve tried to keep them in the herd on large acreage pastures, but she hides in the woods. So they live in our front yard (10 acres enclosed) They can come up to our door if they choose… She’s not exactly happy, (she’s not been since her dam and her uncle died), but she is content. And the Percheron, well, he has a job and he loves it. He stands over her when she’s napping in the hay…

[anon81364900]

In case this is directed at my comment, I did not deny that pain is a real issue for some mares, nor suggest it should be denied. I did not suggest that Regumate is bad for mares. I explicitly said the exact opposite.

My one and only point is that most of the time it’s just about improving behavior, plain and simple. I mean, I think most of us would freely say that my horse was gelded to make him better behaved, easier to work with, not subject to wild hormonal swings which would interfere with my ability to ride / show him. That’s not a controversial statement. So why can’t owners of mares on Regumate just say that? Why does it have to be described as a medical problem.

[CoolCats]

Oh YES!!! However, each horse is an individual. I’ve had 3 mares at pivotal stages of my life.

My first horse was an old palomino mare who hadn’t had a very good life. She taught me patience, kindness, courage and how to stay on no matter what. I loved her deeply and appreciate every moment we spent together.

My second was a 3yo filly who was just about as intelligent as you could imagine. I was 13 and not as smart as I thought . She taught me that learning and the journey was every bit as important and full of wonder as the ride.

My last horse was a complete DIVA, came from a spoiled beginning, then fell into a very bad situation, then I took her off a van heading to auction. She was super smart and mistreated - combined with abuse isn’t a good beginning. I learned patience, consistency, love and hard work were the key to unlocking the huge heart she had. She passed away a few years ago after 20 years together. I haven’t ridden since then - I never realized how deeply she had affected me.

What I’ve learned is that mares are willing to give you their soul if you let them and if you deserve it. Just let them think it’s their idea!

[scislandsprite]

How is her back? I had mine x-rayed & ultrasound three times to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. Horses don’t have a fully developed frontal lobe in the brain like humans do so they physically are not capable of being rude, crabby, cranky, nasty etc out of spite. I do want to add that horses can get ulcers in as little as 4 days so it might be worth getting her scoped again.

[sascha]

@scislandsprite

they physically are not capable of being rude, crabby, cranky, nasty etc out of spite

Out of spite, perhaps not. Out of a desire to communicate, yes. Case in point the horse that politely spits out the “wrong” flavour of candy and when offered it again spits it out more violently and bites the hand that offered it so stupidly that second time. True story.

[Scribbler]

Mares may not bite “out of spite” but they do bite to teach you a lesson, just like if you are an obnoxious weanling. Mares need to learn that humans are not weanlings. When they get that straight, they are very happy to take direction from you.

[sascha]

All true. Some, though, no matter how well trained will not tolerate stupidity and “deafness” from grown adults. My response to the person who got nipped was, “She spat it out. And you tried to give it to her again? When does she ever spit out a candy? Do you even know her? You are one of her favourite people. Tricking her will not be tolerated apparently.” His response was to say, “Citrus flavoured candy will not be tolerated. Check!” (and don’t worry, if I had been there at the time it happened, she would have had her hind end handed to her for expressing herself in such a rude manner - 10 minutes later was, obviously, too late)

[Ajierene]

I find this thread highly amusing since all the “mare hormonal bad behavior” sited is just as likely to occur in the geldings we have in. Currently at over 50 horses and a total of 23 stalls, the worst stall kickers are the boys. The boys are just as likely to pin their ears when you pass. We had to move one gelding because he could get his head around to the front of the stall next to him and even though there were bars up near the feed dish in the corner, apparently he could still talk enough trash that the horse in there refused to eat. Yep, he could get dinner but spend some time harassing the horse next to him so we moved him to the other side of his friend.

My mare will pin her ears if a horse passes and she is in a stall but she’s usually out 24/7 and I think if she’s in a stall she’s just mad that another horse is not in stall. She does not prefer to be in stalls but did end up in one for a week while some repairs were made on the fencing in her field. She was fine to ride but would just start balking a bit when I led her back to the stall, “but MOOOM, I don’t wanna go in! MOOOM, I promise to not go through the broken fence!”

She’s always been a strong, independent horse that don’t need no herd so riding her out by herself, trailering her by herself, or staying in the arena when others left was not an issue - she’s out of a mare of mine and I’ve done all the training myself (I have no one to blame that she doesn’t exactly stand at the mounting block!) She is a dream to ride and loves me dearly and I wouldn’t trade her for the world.

[Semper_Domina]

Thank you all for your responses and input. This is the first “nice” (expensive) horse I have owned. I realize I am taking it too personally when she pins her ears at me I understand that geldings can be bitchy. There are a couple at our barn. My mare just seems to be too much of a drama queen.

There seems to be an almost unanimous vote of “Yes! Once you win a mare’s heart, she will give you her all.” The question I’ve been afraid to ask is…what if you can’t win her heart? What if she just doesn’t like me? She gets 16 hours of turnout a day, she gets excellent care and is in training with an extremely knowledgeable and KIND professional who just loves her. I have owned her since May. When I went to go try her she was probably sedated because if she was as forward then as she is now, I would have had second thoughts. I don’t want to give up on her. I’m hopeful that with some time and improvement in my riding skills that we will be a better fit. I guess I just need some validation that, YES, mares are worth it. I am willing to put in the work and time. That doesn’t bother me. I want that special bond with her. I want her to acknowledge me as the herd leader but I want her to also like me. Is that too much to ask?

[Scribbler]

Mares will love you once they accept you as a kind but fair leader. Timing is really important in both cues and reprimands. They are super attuned to social cues and expect people to also be.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Semper_Domina

I want that special bond with her. I want her to acknowledge me as the herd leader but I want her to also like me. Is that too much to ask?

How much time each week do you spend with her not riding/doing things related to riding? How much time have you spent doing groundwork? How regularly do you handgraze, hang out by her stall, or take her for a walk? If you do not feel like you’ve developed a meaningful connection with her over the past 7 months then you need to change. It could be that you’re doing a lot of great stuff but she needs more of it, or needs it more consistently.

For my mare, I have to check my energy at the door. I truly need to stop, spend about thirty seconds deeply breathing, clear my mind, and commit to being present. She’s obedient if I’m lost in thought and paying more attention to my barn mates than her but she isn’t going to engage with me in a meaningful way. I model what I ask. If I want her to be gentle and engaged then I need to do the same consistently. Consistency is really critical with mares. I’ve seen people laugh at pinned ears one day and then smack them the next. She needs to understand what she can expect of you in every single interaction. If your behavior varies day to day you’re telling her that you’re a herd member she can’t trust.

Warwick Schillers connection content is gold. Learn how to listen to her and I bet she will tell you a lot. Horses want connection. If she isn’t connecting there’s a reason.

[Sweet_Mare]

Some mares are very protective of their stall. It seems to be just a habit - maybe picked up from their dam.

[scislandsprite]

True but geldings and stallions are perfectly capable of not liking a certain flavor of candy as well. I’ve met both mares and geldings that spat food out offered to them and weren’t happy about it because each horse has a taste preference and I wouldn’t say gender is the causation.

[scislandsprite]

This. When working with a horse, it is so necessary to clear your head and not think about things that may be frustrating you in your personal life. Also agree firmly with your point on consistency. We can’t expect the horse to know what they should do if we sometimes punish and reward the same thing. Well said.

[sascha]

I could have easily changed to “any horse” instead of “mare” in response to Scribbler’s “mares may not bit out of spite” statement, or added, unless you are unfair and unkind. It was more a response to the “spite” thing than to the mare thing. An inadvertent tangent to the thread

[Scribbler]

I do think some colts and geldings will be playfully nippy with other horses and people. Mares not so much. If they nip horses or people they are making a point about social hierarchy and they are serious and remember.

[sascha]

@Semper_Domina

I want her to acknowledge me as the herd leader but I want her to also like me. Is that too much to ask?

Not too much to ask if you are up to the challenge. Just as with any horse, she will be most comfortable with a 100% consistent leader who sets 100% consistent boundaries. You won’t win her over by willing her to like you or looking for a magic trick. You will win her over with appropriate boundaries, leadership, and spending time with her - grooming, hand-grazing, figuring out what she likes (inner ear rubs? vigorous currying on her withers? udder cleaning?) and doling out those things generously while maintaining behaviour boundaries. Ignore the ears back thing and it will diminish. Alternatively, take the time to teach a ‘command’ for ears forward. “Fix your face, mare” is my personal favourite. Hee.

[sascha]

I think that’s a fair statement.