I have a 5 yr old Art Deco gelding. Gorgeous, talented, correct. But hot. Not spooky, very sensible about his surroundings.
But overly reactive under saddle to his rider. Hot, forward, and difficult at times. Natural aptitude over fences, but on the flat he is a challenge. Unfocused and reactive.
I’m told by quite a few people that this is an Art Deco thing. Someone even said I should be happy he is at least sensible. Yikes!
He is sweet and kind on the ground and kind undersaddle, but an overthinker!
Does anyone have experience with Art Deco horses and their temperament? Are they hot in general? Any advice? Our biggest issue is his boredom and frustration.
I have a trainer/friend who told me a long time ago that Art Deco get can be “challenging and tough”.
I have an Art Deco mare and, yes, she is a handful under saddle. I have also been told that this is the norm until they are around 8 years of age and then they start to settle down. I hope this is the case, because my girl is such a lover in many ways and I would never dream of parting with her.
ETA, we have two geldings out of the same mare at our barn and both are pretty laid back, so the temperament definitely appears to come from Art Deco.
I have a 4yo Art Deco mare who has a fabulous personality. She’s been under saddle for just a few months now and she is not hot at all - sensitive, but not overly so. A little distractable, but no more than I would expect for any young horse. Not spooky at all.
She was stallbound for almost 1 year at ages 2-3 from a bad pasture injury, and her personality came out in full force. She loved to rear in her stall, then on our rehab walks she would have periodic rearing/kicking fits. I was, honestly, terrified of riding her. Becuase of the injury we had to do everything verrryyy slowwwwllly so we ended up doing lots of groundwork. We were lucky to have a fantastic NH trainer to help us through her fits and my frustration, and now she is the most calm, unperturbable, eager to please horse I have ever worked with. I trust her now, at 4, as much as I ever did my last horse, a 14yo schoolmaster.
With my girl, the bottom line is that she’s smart. She learns incredibly quickly. That means she figured out that rearing intimidated me, but it also means that she has since learned to think through problems instead of reacting. Now, when we work on an exercise that she doesn’t get (under saddle), she tosses her head and takes a step or two to the side or back. That’s her version of a temper tantrum.
I wouldn’t say she’s easy, but she’s definitely not hot, and she’s been capable of learning not to be reactive. It took us some work to get to this point, but now I just love everything about her personality - curious, friendly, smart, sane, sensible, and a very natural athlete.
This is just what I found in my experiences breeding and seeing other Art Deco lines. In the past (spanning about 5-8 years ago) I bred quite a few mares to a very popular son of Art Deco (probably the most popular). I found that the babies that were actually correct with good conformation were pretty, talented BUT very difficult with hot tempers, over reactive dispositions and not the best attitudes. On the other hand, it seemed that if they were sweet and easy and kind they had had bad club feet, bad hind ends, flat movers that had huge strides, difficult lead changes, no natural spring, soundness issues but the best attitudes. I am sorry to say that I bred a lot of nice mares and would not personally ever cross with him again.
Thanks for the input so far! Here is a photo of the offending brat, “Stylus.”
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/runonlooks/january019.jpg
He’s pretty upright. Not a great mover, but a nice jump, a tad flat at the smaller ones.
Today was the 3rd day in a row I left the barn wanting to be done with him. He was obnoxious. Head flipping, ignoring me, then once he’d behave with accepting contact, he’d run. Trainer likes him a lot, but says he’s way behind where he should be because of his argumentative ways.
The thing that keeps me loving him is his attitude from the ground and how he rides over fences. He is a blast to jump, honest and brave.
But, I had hoped for him to be an eventer. Unfortunately the dressage is looking like it may never come.
Seramisu- I’d love to find a trainer similar to the one that helped you with yours!!
Picturesque- Sounds like mine is a blend of the two types you’ve had. He doesn’t have a natural lead change and his canter in general isn’t great. He gets very high headed when he’s frazzled.
I’m so torn. Part of me wants to quit before I get further into things, but part of me really, really likes him. 
We have had numerous Art Deco line mares (Hall of Fame/Hallmark also), and they have all been very sensitive, difficult/hot. Pretty movers, beautiful to look at, nice jump, but definitely bordering on pro ride.
I have a Kama Kamara gelding (son of Art Deco gelded years ago, not sure where he is) who has a sweet and fun personality but can be a handful to say the least. When fresh he spooks, bucks on the back side of the jump, etc and can be very challenging. He is not looking at the fences (super brave), but spooks and acts stupid - quits in the middle of the ring and gawks - at things outside the ring. However, when in a program/really quiet is the BEST. Absolutely incredible mover, has never lost a hack class to my knowledge at any show at any level. Not the BEST jumper, scopey, but can’t really lift the shoulder to well, but a 3’6" talent nonetheless, just not the winner o/f. Natural auto lead change. He is also solid bay w/ a bit of chrome.
I love him though because his personality is so cute, he keeps me on my toes! When he is good he is GOOD so it keeps you going!
But yes, I have heard of Art Decos being tough - moreso the mares than the geldings. I have also seen many Hall of Fames without a lead change (weird?). There was an AD gelding showing locally to us and was just the best kid’s horse.
Just make sure there is nothing physical going on that you maybe don’t know about?
maryann, hi.
all of the art deco’s i have seen and have ridden have been pretty much hot, and a handful,with that being said, bucking after fences, spooking, bolting,rearing ect… you get the picture.pretty much a pro-ride. nice to look at, but not an ammy’s ride at all. this being the handful i have seen. and ridden. i was so hoping this one would work out for you. shoot me an email, maybe i can offer some help
stacey
Successful eventers
I have bred to Art Deco and Hall of Fame for many years. I have both warmblood and TB mares. Several of these babies are very successful eventers. They have a variety of owners too. One is owned by a professional and is going at preliminary and always places in the top 5. He went to a George Morris clinic and George got on him and said he was one of the smartest horses he had come across in a long time. At the time he was only 5! I think anyone would agree that any compliment from George is a big deal!
I have another mare by HOF that is owned by a very timid amateur. They have a great time together and have been very successful at the novice level. This mare also goes preliminary with a professional.
I have a two year old that was just backed to WTC. He was very sensible and easy to work with. After 30 days he was hacking out quietly and we even ponyed another horse off of him.
I don’t know the details of your training and experience, but it sounds like you need some help to get the results you want with this horse. I don’t think this is an issue that has to do with the stallion (or the mare for that matter). I’m sure you could get a number of posts on the pros and cons of a particular stallion. Remember that a horse is not only the product of it’s breeding but also it’s environment, handling and training.
Good luck.
Humm just had this nice topic on the manure pile/litter box. Quite frankly Art Deco’s offspring have constantly done well and the majority of our clientele are repeat breeders, who have had offspring over many, many years. I find it concerning that the mare NEVER comes into the equation when folks talk about Art Deco and find it even more so when folks bring into it well “we bred to a son or a great grand son” nice to know Deco is so pre-potent, that any problem is equated to him, not the mare, not the raising/environment, not the trainer, not the rider.
I have 9 Art Deco offspring here ranging in age from 19yrs-1month they are some of the easiest horses to work with, I am a somewhat of a one man show here and am very realistic about my horses temperaments.
I don’t even know why I care any more (but I do) this makes me heart sick. The horse is 25 years old he has more then proven himself both as a sire and competitor and in my eyes is and always will be the best horse ever - we (I am including myself, Jim Koford and numerous others) as complete neophytes took a stallion from being green to grand prix, breeding huge books of mares during a busy show schedule, few if any horse could do that.
Let’s not forget some very recent successes of Art Deco offspring including:
Viva Las Vegas http://www.dressagedaily.com/2007/dd_200709/dd_20070920c.html Award for the highest-placed American-bred horse during the National Developing Horse Dressage Championship
Indian Art http://www.indianartstud.com/Homepg.htm has an impressive resume at the young age of 9. In 2007, Indian Art will be competing at Prix St. George in Dressage and at the Advanced Level in Eventing. He is long listed for a spot in the Pan Am Games in Brazil. Indy is also competing successfully at “A” circuit jumper shows in the 4’ Children/Adult division, ridden by a junior rider. He is eager to learn and loves to excel in his work.
I have 100s of emails, that say how incredible their offspring by Art Deco are. I have received these below just in the last few weeks
HI Liz,
Just got this e-mail.
The filly’s photo is in your slide show for Art Deco.
Sally,
I just wanted to touch base to tell you how fabulous Princess Alice (Aka: Savannah) is doing.
Wendell and Savannah took first place in Woodside 3 Day Event this weekend at training level. This was an open class with about 22 people including trainers. The McCool Photograph people were there but they don’t have the pictures up yet. I’ll let you know when they put them up.
I am now completing my first level in dressage. I scored a 68 on level 1 test 4 on my last test. Next year I plan to move up to 2nd level as well as start competing her in 3 day events at Novice level. (I’m not ready for training.)
She continues to be a fox hunting dream ride and a joy to ride and own.
Allison
Hi,
I just purchased a son of Art Deco, named Black Tie Affair. He is 11 years old. He is a fantastic horse, talented and full of personality! Just love him! I wondered if you have any early photos of him, during his baby years. Or, of his dam. I know he was purchased at 6 months old by Dianne Anderson of Florida. He was trained to PSG, and competed successfully with her to 4th level. He is now my schoolmaster, and hopefully will help me achieve my goals! He is still sound, and working happily!
Thanks so much!
Sue Hoppe
Just thought I’d send a note about one of Art Deco’s offspring.
Back in 2000, I believe it was, I won breeding to Art Deco on your website for my mare Leap of Faith (aka Blaze). The result was All Decked Out (aka Decker). I sold him to one of my close friends, Sue Doede, who has started him on what looks to be a successful dressage career. At the WDCTA Awards banquet earlier this month, he won 3 awards plus a certificate of achievement (for qualifying scores). He won Intro Level Maiden – Grand Champion; Intro Level Open – Grand Champion (with trainer Nicole Perret riding); and Intro Level Adult Amateur – Reserve Champion (with Sue riding).
Take care,
Shari Woodruff
guest book entry;
Art Deco offspring!— From Camille Fowler
[Mail Me | Visit My Homepage][Wednesday May 21st, 2008 at 17:48:02]
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Comments:
I own Fit to Print, who was sired by Art Deco (he has a previous name -Decopage?). “Scout” is a 12 y.o. gelding and we compete very successfully in the Adult Amateur Hunters. I train with Brad Spragg of The Atlanta Hunt Club but live in Nashville TN. Scout always attracts attention with his looks! I’ll send pictures if you are interested.
Camille
I wish you well with your Art Deco offspring and can only say don’t believe everything you hear – if someone says “OH they are all crazy” ask them WHAT their experience has been, was it a friend of a friend, a son of a son, etc. As stated above by Rockinroll, so much comes into the equation and many rumors with a popular horse who was a bit different are sure to abound!
liz- i was not trying to bash art deco. just commenting on a few that i have worked with. and by all means does not mean they are all hard to work with. lots of them might not have come from good homes, we will never know. just the select few were a little diffecult under saddle with their ammy owners. and my gosh, they are smart, and that could be part of the problem, maybe smarter than the ammy owners. again sorry if i offened you
I think the attitude being taken here is appalling! I have limited experience with Art Deco offspring, however it is awful that people are being so negative on a public forum.
There are bound to be horror stories in breeding, whether it be temperment or conformation. Did anyone think of the temperment of their animals being from upbringing, maybe early training, or maybe just a bad combination of mare+stallion. Even the best “on paper” breeding can have disastrous results. Genetics are genetics, we can’t see all of it. Sometimes it just doesn’t work. Blaming the stallion 3 generations back is just foolish when looking at something like temperment and not even considering anything else.
Pintofoal was very brave to come on here and defend herself. She is a very important part of this comunity offering advice and information, and she has an excellent reputation as a knowlegable and responsible breeder.
Liz, wasn’t he listed as one of the top sires of Dressage horses for quite a few years?
I have only personally seen one Deco baby. He was a stallion presented to the AWS. My friend was asked to handle him last minute. He was a nice boy with nice gaits, but turned down. I questioned the inspector later, and she told me he was just too quiet and relaxed. She wanted to see more spark in a stallion.
The only other Art Deco offspring I have ever talked to someone about was one that was put into the November Hill Farm auction. One of their long term top riders said he was the best thing they had in the auction.
I also had a vet tell me that it was incredible that he improved every single mare she ever saw him crossed with, and her practice had a lot of Decos.
I am sure there are difficult ones out there, just as with any stallion.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. She was asking a question and people were answering it. Just because a few people have bad experiences doesn’t mean that they are all like that!
This board has got to accept the good with the bad. I sure as hell want to hear the good and bad, not just how great some stallion is!
When I was looking at stallions you wouldn’t believe all the stuff people said, but you know what, it made me research more and find out more information good and bad about a lot of stallions!
Of course the stallion owner is upset, but you know what? Not any stallion anywhere is perfect and as she said, the mare has just as much to do with it as the stallion!
Rant over;)
I personally love Art Deco horses. I would not give mine up for anything! Someone just asked what we’d seen and that’s what I’ve seen from the 3 that we’ve had, plus my gelding. That doesn’t mean they weren’t rideable, just not kick along plugs - but, usually talented horses are specifically not plugs.
Of course the mares do play a huge part and it’s kind of like the phenomenon with Popeye K; once the stallion becomes huge like Art Deco was for a long time, anyone and their brother wants to breed any old thing, and if it doesn’t come out fabulous (which would be expected), it’s instantly the stallion’s fault. People do way, way, way underthink the mare’s contribution to the equation. I would agree ever foal I’ve seen has always been a huge improvement.
I have seen very consistently quality, extreme good looks, very fancy movement and good jump with the AD horses. It seems most of them are very smart, which is cool but sometimes doesn’t work in your favor! LOL I still would breed to him and buy another one of his offspring any day. He has been so popular for so long, there are 1000’s and 1000’s of offspring and relatives it seems! Amazing!
Just as there was one showing locally here that packed a small girl around, I have seen numerous others that were saints. I know of a mare in MD that takes care of her older ammy adult too.
I’ve had one Art Deco foal and she is a super star. Her show name is Savannah and amateur owners are Allison and Wendel Williams in Northern California. Liz used one of their e-mails in her response.
I hear from this young couple regularly. Both husband and wife compete on this mare in 3-day. That says a lot about her willingness and both of them do really well in tough competition in northern California. Wendell also rides the mare in a fox hunt.
The mare is as sweet as they come.
Sally
I had an Art deco son who was very spooky when he was a baby. He had a ton of handling and exposure but was just afraid of everything. Then all of a sudden he just decided one day that it was all o.k. (well, except for the fly spray), something clicked and he really came into himself. He was sent out for training with someone good at babies and she absolutely loved him and his mind, she even rode him on her personal time - out on trails, around the farm with a halter and lead rope. He has a phenomenal work ethic and is very trustworthy on the ground and under saddle.
I have a daughter this (now a gelding and with a new ammy owner) I plan to keep. She is the easiest baby I have ever owned except she absolutely will not let me put a tube of deworming paste in her mouth. Just a quirk like her daddy with the fly spray. It kind of makes me laugh - when I’m not wearing the worming paste - that she has a funny quirk like her sire.
I also have an 8y.o. SOTA daughter who can be very strong willed and offers to buck and pick battles regularly but I have always attributed this 100% to the dam as she was older and calmer but could be quite stubborn and opinionated herself.
Another SOTA foal we had was born terrified of people, she cut her hock at one day old and we had to give her antibiotic shots and for the first two days she would do anything she could to get away from us to the point we thought she would hurt herself. She was very timid from the moment she was born so it wasn’t from us coming at her with needles… After a few doses of the antibiotic where we just had to grab her and hold her, she decided we weren’t so bad after all and that butt scritches were great and turned into an absolute puppy dog. She was also extremely easy to train.
I have often thought it interesting that they all have/had their little quirks and idly wondered if it was the Art Deco line but I have also been very pleased at the temperaments and minds of all these horses and wouldn’t hesitate to breed back if I were breeding. Even the mare I have now has an incredible mind and is extremely bold - she is probably the smartest horse I have ever had and definitely inherited her attitude from mom.
And I have to agree with the poster above, the three Deco line horses I have bred - two from SOTA and the one from my Art Deco colt, were huge improvements - and that is the Deco coming through two generations.
I have met 3 in total, two I have ridden. They were both very easy, friendly and willing.
I had the pleasure of helping my neighbor work with her 3 Art Deco babies out of TB mares- two were younger sisters of Hoffie- and they were absolutely wonderful to work with! They were very easy to back and took everything in stride. I would love to have an Art Deco baby once I get out of grad school and actually have time to devote to them!
I have had 3, and all were great!!! One is a 4yo under saddle doing hunters and doing very well with ammy owner. One is showing on the line and I get emails all the time on how sweet and easy she is. And the last one is a 2008 model, that absolutely couldn’t be more laid back!!! He is extremely quiet and loves attention. People are his favorite distraction.
Really, does anyone ever consider the mare? You know the mare spends a heck of a lot more time with the foal than the stallion does…hmmm maybe she may influence it a bit? Whenever I breed I consider BOTH in the equation, not just the sperm. Art Deco is known for sensitivity, which is a great thing when wanting a horse to respond especially at the higher levels. If you breed a sensitive horse with a nasty horse guess what, you may get a sensitive and nasty offspring,lol.
