Art2Ride vs. Stretchy Trot/Gaits?

[Lipsmackerpony79]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwLOgXil77i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link This is the trainer I follow who I don’t think follows art2ride but talks about stretching and getting the hind end under and self carriage. Her horse seems balanced in the canter right?Is this correct self carriage?

I hope to find more and more correct examples like the ones others posted on the previous page. If anyone knows of any dressage books that go in depth on this I would love to know of them.

Also, isn’t some form of stretching needed to teach them how to use their backs? I feel as if i am very confused. Hoping to find a dressage trainer to help soon

[Lipsmackerpony79]

@RainWeasley you are very nice! Its so hard learning a new discipline! Seems like there is so many different ways to train dressage.

[BaroquePony]

A lot of those different exercises are just that, exercises. Different conformations, different levels of schooling …

[outerbanks77]

To me the paint in the Instagram link is just going around on the forehand, like a lower-level HUS stock horse. I don’t see the energy cycling through.

I’m surprised Manolo Mendez hasn’t come up in this conversation, because he is an advocate of working the horse in a FDO position for a significant amount of time (he says “short the body, long the neck”). However, he doesn’t take them so low for any significant amount of time, and instead aims for the eye being at or a little below the level of the point of hip. The horses develop a beautiful bascule. If you do a Google image search, you’ll also see him working horses in a more advanced frame, and using piaffe in hand to develop strength.

http://classicalway.pl/media-spolecznosciowe-co-linia-grzbietu-mowi-o-koniu-i-jego-jezdzcu/

Now doing a Google image search for A2R, in comparison, with the horses much lower in front, the “V” formed by the front and back legs is farther back under the horse, so they’re not supporting and building with the hind end as much.

It shows in the video still of his horse Bailador, and it shows on the paint horse in this link (at an A2R) clinic:

http://www.classicalfoundationhorsemanship.com/correct-stretching.html

I have a mare that is a little downhill, and has western pleasure breeding on her sire’s side. She would gladly go around in a low frame all day and never get “through”. It took a lot of diligent work building her strength before she was strong enough to stretch properly and continue to step through with the hind legs. I would not accept a horse just burying its head as being a “good stretch” IMO the ability to stretch is built out of strength and elasticity, and the right to do a deeper stretch has to be earned. Also, it should only be done for a few strides at a time to start, and then built up from there, otherwise the quality will fail.

[BigMama1]

@DressageD1va

He’s spreading how to drop contact and wait until gravity drops a head down but then proudly exclaims how the back is suddenly up and hind legs are more under. Unfortunately it’s untrue because if you pause the videos the front legs are now not reaching in front of the horse and the weight is distributed more on them. Horses have more of their body weight in the front 1/2 of their bodies so it’s a trainer or rider’s job to teach them to use their hind legs. It requires pushing to a contact even in a stretch. Watching the art tel ride method it’s painfully clear to see that the horse doesn’t seem contact and that Will is quite pleased once the horse drops on the forehand.
As was stated above in a few other comments it’s a very very small aspect of proper schooling (the idea of dropping the neck to get the back up) and is practiced by every single trainer worth their salt. He’s expanded on only that part to the absolute extreme without moving past it. It’s not a desirable end result and horses movement is being damaged and ultimately a horse going so unbalanced for so long will suffer physical damage especially if forced on a lunge line for extended periods of time.

I’m late to the party here but agree with the above. It’s a tool to be used at times with horses who need it, but not a long-solution or training method. A previous trainer of mine doesn’t follow this guy per se, but did believe in riding long and low to get the back lifted. Unfortunately, without creating any impulsion from behind, this just created a very unbalanced horse who was so heavy on the forehand she tripped constantly, and developed none of the correct muscling needed for self carriage.

[alibi_18]

@Lipsmackerpony79

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwLOgXil77i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link This is the trainer I follow who I don’t think follows art2ride but talks about stretching and getting the hind end under and self carriage. Her horse seems balanced in the canter right?Is this correct self carriage?

The horse seems balanced in the canter but it’s not pushing through. Looks like a Training/First level carriage.

It would need a better contact and more engagement, less « speed » in the trot as well, to get a longer rounder stride.

There is a #FromferaltoFEI … What level is she doing with this horse?

I hope to find more and more correct examples like the ones others posted on the previous page. If anyone knows of any dressage books that go in depth on this I would love to know of them.

Also, isn’t some form of stretching needed to teach them how to use their backs? I feel as if i am very confused. Hoping to find a dressage trainer to help soon

Yes, stretching is very important.

All the top riders/trainers do stretch their horses at all gait.

[alibi_18]

@Lipsmackerpony79

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwLOgXil77i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link This is the trainer I follow who I don’t think follows art2ride but talks about stretching and getting the hind end under and self carriage. Her horse seems balanced in the canter right?Is this correct self carriage?

The horse seems balanced in the canter but it’s not pushing through. Looks like a Training/First level carriage.

It would need a better contact and more engagement, less « speed » in the trot as well, to get a longer rounder stride.

There is a #FromferaltoFEI … What level is she doing with this horse?

I hope to find more and more correct examples like the ones others posted on the previous page. If anyone knows of any dressage books that go in depth on this I would love to know of them.

Also, isn’t some form of stretching needed to teach them how to use their backs? I feel as if i am very confused. Hoping to find a dressage trainer to help soon

Yes, stretching is very important.

All the top riders/trainers do stretch their horses at all gait.

[Lunabear1988]

@outerbanks77 thanks for sharing those links. That’s a pretty big difference between the technicque of Art2ride and Manolo.

[alibi_18]

@Lunabear1988

@outerbanks77 thanks for sharing those links. That’s a pretty big difference between the technicque of Art2ride and Manolo.

And that’s because their credentials are a world apart.
Manolo Mendez is way more qualified and skilled.

I know WF says he trained under Nuno Oliveira, but I’ve taken lessons with 2 of his former students (F. Grelo and C. D. Henriquet) and it’s not really that.

[Lunabear1988]

@alibi_18 oh yes for sure! I just never compared them side by side like that.

Honestly I think I the art2ride just latches onto adult amateur fears of Rolkur or btv riding. It’s unfortunately a pretty effective marketing tool. It sure sounds good and better but obviously that doesn’t mean it’s correct.

[merrygoround]

Basically, like so much in riding, a good stretch trot depends on the rider’s ability to do a strong steady trot and hold that trot without the use of the reins to maintain rhythm and tempo.

But first the horse needs to learn to stretch down. I found that explaining that worked well at the free walk when out hacking, by getting the horse first to stretch down, then lightly picking up a contact, not worrying where the nose is, and praising strongly when it happens, After asking for that and getting it consistently at the walk, then progress to the trot and ask with the rider while riding strongly but not quickly forward can encourage the nose into the almost vertical.
This must be done with the quiet hands “up there” and the nose “down there”, at an engaged trot.

There is no cookie cutter approach, Each horse is different, the rider must not only have the body strength and control, but must also have the tool box to figure out how this horse needs to get there.