As I said on another thread, I don’t know how I feel about this subject. But the writer makes some good points.
http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/dec/03/seattle-stew-thanks-no-thanks/
She does.
Thanks for sharing that.
I applaud Stephanie Diaz’s article, as I do Lauren Giannini’s, seen here:
http://sidelinesnews.com/blogs/laurengallops/for-the-love-of-horses-pt-1.html
I have to say I’m surprised there hasn’t been any conversation on this eventing forum regarding the slaughter bill. I was just about to open a new thread when I saw this one. Thanks, EventFan.
Are there no opinions? Is everyone just ignoring it and hoping it will go away? Overpopulation is rampant, horses are suffering all over the country. I happen to think if we can get multiple slaughter houses funded, managed and regulated in this country, the horse population will be better for it. Back yard breeders also have to give it up.
I’m one of the lucky ones-I can afford to have my horses euthanized by a vet (5 since 2006) with me at their sides, while they munch grass and I have the space to bury them on my property. If this were not the case, I would want a Temple Grandin-structured, clean, safe place, within a few hours’ drive, where I could humanely have my horse put to death. If he went on to feed the tigers in the zoo or the dogs in the shelter, so be it. I don’t want him on my dinner plate but I also don’t want him terrified as he faces his demise.
Thoughts?
The article is good, but not scientifically accurate as the author outlines that the animal is shackled when it is still breathing. However, when an animal is “knocked” before shackling it delivers immediate unconsciousness equivalent to surgical anesthesia (meaning no pain), this is achieved as written in Federal regulation by:
" physical brain destruction and a combination of changes in intra-cranial pressure and acceleration concussion."
In addition, one of the things looked for during inspection of humane slaughter is signs of breathing including rising and falling of the ribcage, breathing indicates that the animal was not knocked properly. Rhythmic breathing must be absent after an animal is knocked, which is defined as the rib cage rising and falling two or more times.
This is something our inspectors and public health veterinarians verify every day at slaughter houses. If a slaughter house shackles an animal that is still breathing or exhibits signs consciousness this is an egregious humane handling violation, in which the USDA can take immediate action and suspend slaughter at the plant.
While I agree with the authors overall stance on slaughter, she needs to watch or read a good education program on slaughter by Temple Grandin, or other educational institution so she understand the actual physical process and the science behind it.
Should pets be slaughtered? Heck no, we don’t send fluffy and Tin tin to the slaughter house when we get tired of feeding them or they don’t make us any money. Horses are bred and raised as pets and for entertainment purposes in the country, pets should not be in our food chain, period.
If you want to learn about the laws our country has on humane handling, read the 9 Code of Federal Regulation part 313, it is very extensive and informative. Also read information by Temple Grandin, as the government models its humane handling verification on much of the research she has conducted.
My rant for the day
I feel like a broken record some times - I’m always whining on and on about these things…
But YES, I do agree that improving the methods of slaughter is a short term necessity. I DON’T, however, agree that slaughter itself is a necessity.
The drugs used to euthanize cost less than $15 per full sized dose. A federal or state agency that assists with euthanasia can replace the slaughter houses completely and render the overpopulation argument moot.
Euthanasia will always be more humane and safer as we can avoid the transportation and crowds. Plus, making owners/breeders responsible for destroying what they cannot support and safely rehome will create a culture of more responsible breeding. It will be a real step towards changing an attitude that is at the root of the problem.
Finally, the other solution is reproductive control in undomesticated herd polulations. We have had the technology to provide birth control via feed through and implants for almost 20 years. There is NO NEED to cull herds etc. We just need to prevent their growth beyond levels their grazing lands can support. We just need to control population growth.
I am a physician and in my work I am consistently reminded of the problems of politicians who think in terms of 2 or 4 year re-election cycles making health care decisions instead of health policy researchers who are able to predict the big picture 10-40 year effects of these decisions.
The same is true in the slaughter/no slaughter debate. People need to stop focussing on NOW and start thinking of what will erradicate the problems that drive the industry long term. Birth control, mandatory breeding lisences and registration, and free euthanasia will fix this “problem” for good.
[QUOTE=RiverBendPol;6001803]
I applaud Stephanie Diaz’s article, as I do Lauren Giannini’s, seen here:
http://sidelinesnews.com/blogs/laurengallops/for-the-love-of-horses-pt-1.html
I have to say I’m surprised there hasn’t been any conversation on this eventing forum regarding the slaughter bill. I was just about to open a new thread when I saw this one. Thanks, EventFan.
I’m one of the lucky ones-I can afford to have my horses euthanized by a vet (5 since 2006) with me at their sides, while they munch grass and I have the space to bury them on my property. If this were not the case, I would want a Temple Grandin-structured, clean, safe place, within a few hours’ drive, where I could humanely have my horse put to death. If he went on to feed the tigers in the zoo or the dogs in the shelter, so be it. I don’t want him on my dinner plate but I also don’t want him terrified as he faces his demise.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
And thank you for posting this. It’s been my position all along, and I remember arguing with friends supporting anti-slaughter laws before they were passed. At that time, one of them said she was doing so in hopes that the resulting mess would result in passage of the kind of regulations that would provide “a Temple-Grandin-structured … place,” and equally humane transport to it. Seems to me that now’s the time-- and I really hope it happens! All the hoopla about what happens to the meat is beyond me. I wouldn’t mind being dogfood myself if I could die relatively free of fear and pain… in fact, being a committed recycler who abhors waste, I rather like the idea. I remember all too well watching a friend waste away from cancer, saying “I’d never let anything so awful happen to my horses!”
Donation to feed animals not being an option, I’ve donated my corpse to serve medical and educational purposes.
Clivers, this is entirely too reasonable to fly in politics, at least here in the US. Up north, maybe? Maybe I am being too pessimistic. The horse industry and its participants represent a lot of $ and maybe could get a lobby effort going.
[QUOTE=missyrideson;6001818]
The article is good, but not scientifically accurate as the author outlines that the animal is shackled when it is still breathing. However, when an animal is “knocked” before shackling it delivers immediate unconsciousness equivalent to surgical anesthesia (meaning no pain), this is achieved as written in Federal regulation by:
" physical brain destruction and a combination of changes in intra-cranial pressure and acceleration concussion."
In addition, one of the things looked for during inspection of humane slaughter is signs of breathing including rising and falling of the ribcage, breathing indicates that the animal was not knocked properly. Rhythmic breathing must be absent after an animal is knocked, which is defined as the rib cage rising and falling two or more times.
This is something our inspectors and public health veterinarians verify every day at slaughter houses. If a slaughter house shackles an animal that is still breathing or exhibits signs consciousness this is an egregious humane handling violation, in which the USDA can take immediate action and suspend slaughter at the plant.
While I agree with the authors overall stance on slaughter, she needs to watch or read a good education program on slaughter by Temple Grandin, or other educational institution so she understand the actual physical process and the science behind it.
Should pets be slaughtered? Heck no, we don’t send fluffy and Tin tin to the slaughter house when we get tired of feeding them or they don’t make us any money. Horses are bred and raised as pets and for entertainment purposes in the country, pets should not be in our food chain, period.
If you want to learn about the laws our country has on humane handling, read the 9 Code of Federal Regulation part 313, it is very extensive and informative. Also read information by Temple Grandin, as the government models its humane handling verification on much of the research she has conducted.[/QUOTE]
As I pointed out on another thread, the author is well known in horse circles for rescuing ex racers and has written about this subject for many years. She was pointing out how slaughter is done outside the U.S. - like Mexico. You can find a million videos of what happens in Mexican slaughterhouses on the internet. They are often stabbed and in no way unconscious when they hoist them up.
I am struggling a lot with this issue but the more I learn the more I am leaning toward the necessary evil of slaughterhouses here vs the alternative.
Education for breeders?
I’m not opposed to slaughter, I am opposed to the inhumane treatment in transport and further lack of a humane killing process. I’m also opposed to what seems to be rampant indescriminent breeding.
Aside from the horses that should never have been bred (really really bad conformation etc.) there are horses coming off the track that just aren’t going to find a home or are not suitable for anything. What do we do with all those horses? Canter and other organizations are working as hard as they can, but there are just too many horses with no future. :sadsmile:
Can we start an education program explaining why “Trixie” a sweet horse with horrible conformation should not be bred. And ask can you afford to care for a foal? Offer a criteria that helps someone decide whether or not to breed. Not a dictator style criteria, but a common sense approach to breeding.
Also, why don’t breeders have a better system where they breed to approved mares only. I have personally seen a BNB accept a grade small arab/pony cross that couldn’t be ridden, in for breeding. The resulting offspring was a small grade horse that toed out in front (seriously) cow hocked in back and numerous other conformation faults:no:. Am I going to breed my mare, yes I am. But, before we decided to breed her, she had to prove herself. In her first year of competition, she won a local state award, came in reserve for our area and 4th over all in her division for U.S.E.A. Not bragging here, just letting you know I am as critical of my mare as I am of others. She’s also quite nice on paper with very nice conformation.
Are you kidding? What do you think happens daily in shelters around this country and on Craigslist everyday to dogs. A percentage of those may go to a good home. However there is a high percentage of ones that don’t. Those animals are euthanized or gassed. Dead is dead. For many animals living in a shelter for any length of time is stressful. Isn’t this just sending Fluffy and Tin Tin to slaughter under a different name? But wait the pet owner leaves the shelter and is able to delude themselves into thinking that their 8/9 year old lab/pit cross is going to get a wonderful home. At least horse owners that take the horse directly to the shelter or sells the horse to the feed lot knows what the end result is gonna be.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t oppose humane slaughter of horses. I use to go up to New Holland in the mid eighties pretty regularly with my old employer to buy horses. This was before things got cleaned up a bit. There were horses that had gaping wounds, were walking skeletons, 3 legged lame. I generally think that a ride to Canada and 48 hours more of discomfort is better than starving to death in the back forty.
If New Holland closed tomorrow do I think that these abusive owners are suddenly going to cease to exist? No. But their horses are just dying a slower more agonizing death out of sight somewhere. Will that still happen even if there are slaughterhouses open? Yes. but IMO a smaller percentage.
In my area slaughter has never gone away since NH is still open. My understanding is the kill buyers there always shipped to Canada anyway since it was much closer than TX or IL. In my area I seem to hear about horses being turned loose/abandoned less than in other areas. I see fewer free to good homes on my CL than on other areas of the country’s CL. This may be a by-product of the local economy being better that other areas or because NH is a viable option.
Do I wish that we didn’t have to slaughter Trigger? Yes, I wish there were good homes (not long term warehousing at rescues) for all the horses. I wish that were the case for cats and dogs. But that isn’t reality. I don’t see that ever happening.
Clivers: You are totally right that the slaughter of horses would not be necessary if there were not unwanted horses. I completely agree that we need to address the known SOURCES of unwanted horses (what I would also characterize as indiscriminate breeding). What can be done about this?
But for the time being, I feel that we need to have a more humane solution for horses that will otherwise be sent to Mexico or Canada for slaughter. My only concern is that the USDA is not going to be able to effectively regulate the slaughterhouses due to underfunding and understaffing. This is already a problem with the regulation of factory farms and other slaughter houses.
Educating owners that “Trixie” isn’t breeding quality is going to be hard to do. First off, how go you get Trixie’s owners to go to an education siminar? The worst “CL quality” backyard breeders aren’t breeding poor quality mares to BN stallions, they’re not going to pay that kind of money, they’re breeding Trixie to their neighbor’s backyard stallion of the same quality as Trixie. The “good” CL breeders are paying a couple hundred dollars to breed to a stallion that MAY have shown/ roped/ whatever locally and is the grandson of some big name horse… As I’ve already pointed out in the slaughter thread in “Dressage”, you can’t educate people who don’t want educated.
If we pass MORE laws and regulate breeding who determines what horses are ALLOWEDto breed? I know that I don’t have that much faith in our government. :S
To assure that horses sent to slaughter includes making sure the animal is deceased priot to rendering DOES require that someone has oversight and I’m not sure how we can believe that rendering plants will have a Veterinarian or inspector there all the time.
I also believe that if these plants open in the US - ALL exportation of horses to Mexico and Canada should cease immediately. Specifially in the case of Mexico where horses are stabbed in the spinal cord and are bled out while still alive.
It will also remain as an unknown whether the slaughter houses returning to the US will (during these extreme economic times) result in an increase in equine theft.
And I’m still not understanding how these slaughterhouses will meet the requirements of “holding” the equines for a sufficient amount of time to confirm they have no drugs in their system. I listened to a woman from Canada declaring that they were meeting the EU requirements that all horse meet imported to their countries be drug free. This, she stated, was handled with the 30 day “hold period” for shipments from the US. Well we all know that isn’t happening. The killer sales around the country are not feeding these equines for a month prior to the packing them in overloaded cattle rigs to ship to Canada.
So who do we believe when it comes to how the plants here will be able to upgrade the situation, hold the equines for a month, provide inspectors for methods of euthanizing the animals and make a profit??
This is a new report issued by the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition of an alleged state of the art Temple Grandin designed slaughterhouse. I chose not to watch the videos but I did read all 80 pages of the report, which did seem to be very well documented. I would advise all to do the same.
Iavree with the post above tha horses should not be in the food chain, period. I know the popular position is to say that the anti- slaughter advocates are in denial and that slaughter is a necessity and as a result the focus should be on regulation of the process and some kind of Grandin as Grail mechanism. IMO, that is the bigger river of denial. There will never be money spent on regulation of the process and killer buyers were around during all kinds of horrible abuse/death cases and did not prevent (and will not prevent) all of those cases. There is almost no situation that I can find anyone to point to and say, "this case of abuse/malnutrition/slaughter would not have happened if only we had a web of Grandin designed horse slaughter facilities.
IMO, if we wanted to be serious about the situation, we’d do things involving licensing of horses to fund animal control euthanasia. A $50/weanling license fee (that would disproportionately affect breeders) and a $10/horse license fee thereafter, going to local animal control facilities that can handle euthanasia for horses (just to toss out parameters, not final numbers) would, over time, make disposable breeders think more and would generate $ for a regulated euthanasia process that is going to be more sure and certain than expecting the federal government to magically insure construction of low stress slaughter facilities woth proper regulation and supervision, supply adequate numbers and training of properly empowered inspectors (who will already be starting from a "don’t shut things down no matter what is going on because it is needed and there are jobs and taxes etc.), and while they are at it to supervise and inspect the feedlot and transport pipelines and the horse theft issues that will absolutely become more and more problematic.
I don’t think a Grandin designed cat slaughter facility is the way to address cat ovepopulations, and I don’t think inspirational slaughter facilities are going to create fewer issues with unwanted horses and will create more issues vis a vis theft incentives, for wanted horses.
No they won’t. They will continue to have a place where they can dump their horses for a financial reward, as they do now, as slaughter is easily accessible to day and will become even more so. They (and large scale AQHA/other breeders) will have an even easier pipeline to overbreed and dump and receive cash for doing do.
Note: the argument “it will be hard” is never a valid excuse NOT to do something.
[QUOTE=RiverBendPol;6001803]
I applaud Stephanie Diaz’s article, as I do Lauren Giannini’s, seen here:
http://sidelinesnews.com/blogs/laurengallops/for-the-love-of-horses-pt-1.html
I have to say I’m surprised there hasn’t been any conversation on this eventing forum regarding the slaughter bill. I was just about to open a new thread when I saw this one. Thanks, EventFan.
Are there no opinions? Is everyone just ignoring it and hoping it will go away? Overpopulation is rampant, horses are suffering all over the country. I happen to think if we can get multiple slaughter houses funded, managed and regulated in this country, the horse population will be better for it. Back yard breeders also have to give it up.
I’m one of the lucky ones-I can afford to have my horses euthanized by a vet (5 since 2006) with me at their sides, while they munch grass and I have the space to bury them on my property. If this were not the case, I would want a Temple Grandin-structured, clean, safe place, within a few hours’ drive, where I could humanely have my horse put to death. If he went on to feed the tigers in the zoo or the dogs in the shelter, so be it. I don’t want him on my dinner plate but I also don’t want him terrified as he faces his demise.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Hear, hear!
You crystallized my thoughts perfectly, Pol.
I also think that raising the issue of cats and dogs is a little specious. There are order of magnitude differences in both the physical requirements and the physical sizes of these species compared to horses.
Now, as to how to control breeding horses in this country… honestly, I have no idea what would make a difference. There are so many places in the US where neighbors and passersby can’t tell that someone is starving or otherwise abusing animals (or their family members, for that matter). How can you possibly get them to admit they are breeding horses and pay a license fee? And these may be folks who resent any intrusion into what they perceive as their rights creating a potentially dangerous situation.
Maybe we should train National Guardsmen to do surveillance and inspection on some of their weekends? (Just kidding, really!:D)
[QUOTE=mbp;6002082]
Iavree with the post above tha horses should not be in the food chain, period. I know the popular position is to say that the anti- slaughter advocates are in denial and that slaughter is a necessity and as a result the focus should be on regulation of the process and some kind of Grandin as Grail mechanism. IMO, that is the bigger river of denial. There will never be money spent on regulation of the process and killer buyers were around during all kinds of horrible abuse/death cases and did not prevent (and will not prevent) all of those cases. There is almost no situation that I can find anyone to point to and say, "this case of abuse/malnutrition/slaughter would not have happened if only we had a web of Grandin designed horse slaughter facilities.
IMO, if we wanted to be serious about the situation, we’d do things involving licensing of horses to fund animal control euthanasia. A $50/weanling license fee (that would disproportionately affect breeders) and a $10/horse license fee thereafter, going to local animal control facilities that can handle euthanasia for horses (just to toss out parameters, not final numbers) would, over time, make disposable breeders think more and would generate $ for a regulated euthanasia process that is going to be more sure and certain than expecting the federal government to magically insure construction of low stress slaughter facilities woth proper regulation and supervision, supply adequate numbers and training of properly empowered inspectors (who will already be starting from a "don’t shut things down no matter what is going on because it is needed and there are jobs and taxes etc.), and while they are at it to supervise and inspect the feedlot and transport pipelines and the horse theft issues that will absolutely become more and more problematic.
I don’t think a Grandin designed cat slaughter facility is the way to address cat ovepopulations, and I don’t think inspirational slaughter facilities are going to create fewer issues with unwanted horses and will create more issues vis a vis theft incentives, for wanted horses.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I agree with you- COMPLETELY.
[QUOTE=wildlifer;6002102]
No they won’t. They will continue to have a place where they can dump their horses for a financial reward, as they do now, as slaughter is easily accessible to day and will become even more so. They (and large scale AQHA/other breeders) will have an even easier pipeline to overbreed and dump and receive cash for doing do.
Note: the argument “it will be hard” is never a valid excuse NOT to do something.[/QUOTE]
Also completely agree with you. This is the ugly truth!
