Article on slaughter - pretty ballsy

Who ever said you’d be paid to drop your horse in a slaughter house? Seems to me the owner can pay for the service, just as I have paid (a lot of) money to my vets to have my horses humanely euthanized in my own yard. I think the service should be a whole lot cheaper than my vets’ fees ($250-450 each, not to mention the $ to the back hoe man). The service fee would help support the plants, pay the salaries of the knackermen (women) and generally help keep the whole project on the up and up.

Betonbill, your link doesn’t work.

mbp, likening horse slaughter to cat slaughter is ludicrous.

[QUOTE=Eventfan4LIFE;6001846]

I am struggling a lot with this issue but the more I learn the more I am leaning toward the necessary evil of slaughterhouses here vs the alternative.[/QUOTE]

While the process may be done differently here, it’s still been documented that abuse and inhumane treatment are common in the U.S. slaughter houses. Slaughter is not illegal in the U.S., it’s only illegal for human consumption. The plants still operating continue to be documented for inhumane treatment.

[QUOTE=VicariousRider;6001876]
But for the time being, I feel that we need to have a more humane solution for horses that will otherwise be sent to Mexico or Canada for slaughter. My only concern is that the USDA is not going to be able to effectively regulate the slaughterhouses due to underfunding and understaffing. This is already a problem with the regulation of factory farms and other slaughter houses.[/QUOTE]

The USDA did a piss poor job of regulating the process before, and I don’t see anyone fighting to make sure they will be any different this time around. The USDA doesn’t even have the bandwidth now to regulate the slaughter of other animals, I don’t know why people believe it will be any different for horses.

[QUOTE=wildlifer;6002102]No they won’t. They will continue to have a place where they can dump their horses for a financial reward, as they do now, as slaughter is easily accessible to day and will become even more so. They (and large scale AQHA/other breeders) will have an even easier pipeline to overbreed and dump and receive cash for doing do.

Note: the argument “it will be hard” is never a valid excuse NOT to do something.[/QUOTE]

What makes it worse is having breed associations advocate for slaughter. The motto for the AQHA should be: “Go ahead and breed more horses than there is a market for, because we can kill and eat them so you have room to start all over again.”

That is an interesting idea, as it reduces the financial incentive to breed throw-away horses and gets rid of any sort of breeding market for slaughter horses.

However, if you have to pay for that service, wouldn’t the people who are financially motivated in sending their horses to auction still send them to Mexico or Canada?

I don’t object to horse slaughter in theory (as in, I don’t see why they are morally different from cows–though I doubt I could convince myself to eat either). But it sounds as though the methods in the US have never been humane are not likely to become so, and in that sense I hate to see it endorsed, even though it is the lesser of several evils (slaughter abroad, starving to death).

I do like the idea of reducing the slaughter market by not paying for slaughter horses though.

That is an interesting proposition – no financial reward for the dumpers that way. You have to pay to send your horse off. Hmmmm…

[QUOTE=wildlifer;6002989]
That is an interesting proposition – no financial reward for the dumpers that way. You have to pay to send your horse off. Hmmmm…[/QUOTE]

But doesn’t this just circle back to the problems created by the fact that some can’t (or won’t) pay to put a horse down? Will this just perpetuate the “turn the horse loose” solution which leads to starving and desperate horses?

Unfortunately, this issue always seems to end up being a circular one: how do we end horse slaughter when there are so many “unwanted” horses and how do we end the breeding of “unwanted” horses when they can be easily disposed of?

Wildlifer: I totally agree that something being hard is not a reason not to do it but I can’t figure out what the best solution is in this case. We have to understand what the problems are in order to be albe to overcome them.

What is our Relationship Today

Perhaps part of the problem is establishing the relationship we have with horses in today’s world and in the future. Over century ago a horse was livestock, an object that had a specific purpose (plowing, hauling a cart, working for a living) and it was also viewed as a food and by-product source. Over time that role has changed. We don’t regularly use horses for work, but instead they are now mainly sport horses; racing, eventing, jumping, dressage, reining, show carriage…the list goes on. Just because I can get on my horse’s back does not make it less of a pet, less of a loved member of my family.

As such it should be treated that way. People were offended by a comment that used cat slaughter in comparison. Why? Are horses less deserving of humane care, and humane death. Pet shelters may have there share of abuses, but in general, when I can take my terminally ill dog or cat to the vet, or to the shelter to be put down, I know it will be done in a humane manner. I am mainly disgusted that horse lovers would advocate slaughter as a first option knowing that there is neither people or money to assure acceptable conditions for the death of a horse. We take on the responsibility for their living when they enter our lives, we should then be responsible for their dying as well. While we (as a society) continue to see a horse as a commodity we will continue to allow the easy way out for owners to negate their responsibility.

I understand there is a problem with over breeding, there is a problem with neglectful owners (which is how I got my first horse), and there is a problem when an economy tanks and people are left having to make choices of what to do with a horse. Accepting the option of allowing horses to be put into crowded carriages, to be taken to crowded holding areas that reek of fear, to run the risk of being killed in an inhumane way is not a first or second option. This is an easy, hid the problem under the rug type solution. I agree with another poster’s premise that a fee should be paid by breeders for every horse they produce. I would accept a license fee for owning a horse (heck we may even get better documentation) all used to assist vets in proper euthanizing of horses and proper methods for disposal or burial. What blows me away is that I will read about people who will pay $$$ to help heal a horse, but complain how much it costs to end its life.

I simply dread, dread the day I have to potentially put my first horse down. I honestly pray she passes over in her sleep. However, I am grateful that when the day comes I can call on my vet for being there to make it a loving act. I want to believe every animal in our care is given that respect.

I fought the bill that wanted to require dog breeders to pay fees for having a litter of puppies, and I would fight a law requiring the same to breed a horse. All that will do is punish responsible breeders while irresponsible ones will ignore it. Who’s going to enforce it?

I support horse slaughter only because the overpopulation issue is NOT going away and I’d rather have it done in the US than abroad.

And being approved? Who is going to do that? One day I may breed my mare, for my own purposes. She will have to prove herself to me first. If you make it elite, you take away that lower end market where a lot of us find our nice horses. I certainly can’t afford 10 grand for a horse, but I can afford to maintain the one I have.

cost for euthanasia

Clivers

Where did you come up with the figure of $15.00 for a dose of euthanasia solution enough to kill a horse?

I do not believe that to be true - mulitiply by 10 to get a realistic cost. Euthanasia solution is not cheap.

JP60 said

" People were offended by a comment that used cat slaughter in comparison. Why? Are horses less deserving of humane care, and humane death. Pet shelters may have there share of abuses, but in general, when I can take my terminally ill dog or cat to the vet, or to the shelter to be put down, I know it will be done in a humane manner. I am mainly disgusted that horse lovers would advocate slaughter as a first option knowing that there is neither people or money to assure acceptable conditions for the death of a horse. We take on the responsibility for their living when they enter our lives, we should then be responsible for their dying as well. While we (as a society) continue to see a horse as a commodity we will continue to allow the easy way out for owners to negate their responsibility."

  1. I wasn’t offended by the comment about comparing cat slaughter to horse slaughter. My point was (and is) that you’re comparing apples and oranges. Bluntly, dealing with a cat’s body is much easier that dealing with a horse’s body. There really are a number of horse owners who have no capacity for disposing of a horse’s body. (eg: board horse out near a metropolitan area with a lot of wells and high water table.) Also, there is no residual use for a cat’s body.

  2. I completely agree with your opinions on owner responsibility vis a vis horses, and I extend them to all the animals we take into our care, no matter what the species. Of course I believe they should be treated humanely and kindly. However, I am well aware that there are many people in the world, not to mention this country, that don’t see it quite that way. For them horses aren’t cherished pets and companions: they are working animals or just in the category of “animals to which humanitarian rights are not extended”. Analogous to how people with pet pigs feel about them compared to those who raise them for meat.

  3. I cannot for the life of me imagine legislation that will effectively protect horses completely. We have animal abuse laws now, and they are often ignored, inconsistently administered or underfunded. While I remain open to the possibility of something truly effective being possible, my rational brain says the odds are tragically low.

  4. Given the above, I remain open to the development of humane abattoirs (just had to use that word) and transport. If they existed in the US, I’d then hope that every horse lover in the country did everything in their power to make them unnecessary. Rather then drive the problem underground, I think it should be addressed short and long term.

[QUOTE=JP60;6004009]
Perhaps part of the problem is establishing the relationship we have with horses in today’s world and in the future. Over century ago a horse was livestock, an object that had a specific purpose (plowing, hauling a cart, working for a living) and it was also viewed as a food and by-product source. Over time that role has changed. We don’t regularly use horses for work, but instead they are now mainly sport horses; racing, eventing, jumping, dressage, reining, show carriage…the list goes on. Just because I can get on my horse’s back does not make it less of a pet, less of a loved member of my family.

As such it should be treated that way. People were offended by a comment that used cat slaughter in comparison. Why? Are horses less deserving of humane care, and humane death. Pet shelters may have there share of abuses, but in general, when I can take my terminally ill dog or cat to the vet, or to the shelter to be put down, I know it will be done in a humane manner. I am mainly disgusted that horse lovers would advocate slaughter as a first option knowing that there is neither people or money to assure acceptable conditions for the death of a horse. We take on the responsibility for their living when they enter our lives, we should then be responsible for their dying as well. While we (as a society) continue to see a horse as a commodity we will continue to allow the easy way out for owners to negate their responsibility.

I understand there is a problem with over breeding, there is a problem with neglectful owners (which is how I got my first horse), and there is a problem when an economy tanks and people are left having to make choices of what to do with a horse. Accepting the option of allowing horses to be put into crowded carriages, to be taken to crowded holding areas that reek of fear, to run the risk of being killed in an inhumane way is not a first or second option. This is an easy, hid the problem under the rug type solution. I agree with another poster’s premise that a fee should be paid by breeders for every horse they produce. I would accept a license fee for owning a horse (heck we may even get better documentation) all used to assist vets in proper euthanizing of horses and proper methods for disposal or burial. What blows me away is that I will read about people who will pay $$$ to help heal a horse, but complain how much it costs to end its life.

I simply dread, dread the day I have to potentially put my first horse down. I honestly pray she passes over in her sleep. However, I am grateful that when the day comes I can call on my vet for being there to make it a loving act. I want to believe every animal in our care is given that respect.[/QUOTE]

JP,
I promise you, you do not want your mare to “pass in her sleep”.

I do agree with you regarding the fear-free, comfortable, dignified death our companions so deserve. I am NOT advocating slaughter for slaughter’s sake. There must be improvements made for it to be acceptable. As I said in my first post, I have put down 5 members of my equine family in the past 5 years. (Plus 1 cat and 2 dogs but that isn’t our topic) Each one has gone down with carrots, grass or peppermints in his mouth, with me at his side, in his own yard, by the hand of his own vet. Such is the stuff that responsible horse owners charge themselves to accomplish. I reached the hideously painful decision to end their lives because it was MY responsibility. Each euth cost ME well over $300. The back hoe for each cost $250 or more. I have to say, for my next one, which I hope and pray won’t happen for a long time-I’m tired of acting as the Angel of Death around here-IF there were a clean, well-run, neighborhood slaughter house within a short drive, I would consider taking my boy there.

Picture this: I can imagine small local outfits…perhaps even a place such as my own. I have a 12 stall barn and rolling fields. I could set up the death chamber with effective, state of the art killing machines. I could house the horses for the allotted time to be sure they were drug free. I could feed them carrots and brush their faces and I could do the deed. I would sob my face off over each and every one. I’d be set up with the local shelters, I’d have a local guy who would do the rendering and we’d pack up Ol’ Bluey to go feed the shelter dogs. I’d charge a hundred bucks per horse. I certainly wouldn’t make any money-that isn’t my intention and perhaps it wouldn’t be as efficient as the huge rendering plants we have now but it would serve the local people who found themselves under a rock. The cost would perhaps slow the breed-for-bucks reprehensible types and it would give a better end to those miserable souls no one cares for any more.

Dear Pol.

Yes, you could do this, and you would do it right. The emotional toll on you would be huge, but I know you’d sleep well because the animal came first.

I’m not sure why, but you obviously have more experience then I and the only time I’ve experienced death of an animal was my cat of 14 years and a horse I cared for when I started on the path of horses. Both put down by a vet. Both remain tough memories.

Your idea of a local solution is at least better then a national view, fraught with the opportunity for abuse. When it is local then the community has ownership of the actions of such a place (with good oversight I would hope). It also puts faces to all parties. However, why have a “place”. Are these start of the art killing machines not portable? Cannot the same action be applied with disposition by the renderer be the same. Animals can be quarantined (if required) without the need for transportation.

The worse thing is when we make death easy. We then don’t value life.

betonbill, thanks for updating your link. Shattering.

JP…hmmmmmm. I wonder if they could be portable. So, let’s see… I could set the thing up in my 2-horse goose neck trailer. I drive to Joe Blow’s farm/backyard. Joe and I lead Ol’ Bluey into the trailer, I give him some carrots and blast him in the brain then drive him to the knackerman’s place? I guess it could work. Lots of mileage on my truck but nicer for Ol Bluey. He’d still have to walk into the trailer. Some horses don’t trailers but they don’t know it is better than being jammed into the double decker semi and shipped for 28 hours to be jammed into the holding pens and then whacked in the head by an incompetent ghoul.

Truth be told, the planned euthanasia of a beloved pet is the easy part. The agony of the decision-making is nothing short of torture. For this steward, anyway.

Thanks, Annie. :wink: xo

Bravo, Steph. Well-written.

[QUOTE=regeventer;6004251]
Clivers

Where did you come up with the figure of $15.00 for a dose of euthanasia solution enough to kill a horse?

I do not believe that to be true - mulitiply by 10 to get a realistic cost. Euthanasia solution is not cheap.[/QUOTE]

$15 is not that far off. I put a horse down two weeks ago. The practice I use charges separately, at cost, for the Euthanol solution. I am sitting here with my bill. For 105 cc’s, the drug at cost was $31.50, or 30 cents per cc.

Of course, you are right, the cost to euth once you add up call fee, injection fee, disposal, is much higher.

Some great ideas here.

Love your idea River.

Here in Northern California, we have a couple of rescues who offer low cost euthanasia and gelding clinics which are funded by donations.

It could work everywhere if people wanted it to.

Well, I guess I will out myself. I sort of had my own horse slaughtered, or I guess I actually did. His body was failing him and I wanted to do something more green than euthing him and having him carried off by a removal company, so I did some research. I found a large cat rescue near me and spoke with and investigated them until I was comfortable having them use my guy to feed the cats.
As it turns out, the rescue owner maintains a herd of horses off site from the rescue so my guy got to go there and chill for a few weeks, until his number was called. My mother (I had gotten the horse for her) went to see him the morning of D day and said he was not stressed, but comfortably chowing down on hay until near the end.
Do I think my choice is right for everyone? Not at all. Do I feel comfortable with the choice I made? Mostly. I think people always doubt whether they did the right thing or not, but at the same time I don’t feel that what I did was wrong, if that makes sense. My view was that my horse was going to die no matter what and his body was just a vessel holding him back. At the time of his death, what made him “him” would be gone from his body anyway. I had to be able to separate him from his body in my mind in order to be able make the choice I did.

RiverBendPol’s idea of a local, relatively humane slaughter option would be terrific.

I believe we need a number of things, working together, to help reduce (eliminate is unrealistic) the unwanted horse population:

  1. charge a reasonable fee for each horse at a domestic slaughter plant, one that will bring in enough money to allow for better proecesses, for inspections, and to cause those who deliver horses to slaughter to potentially incur a cost, rather than walk away with a check.

  2. Ban the transport of horses out to Mexico or Canada for slaughter. While obviously, some would still go through, it could stop the large scale export of animals to unregulated, potentially cruel abattoirs. Again, charge substantial penalties for violators to help fund interception.

  3. Continue the ban on use of horsemeat for human consumption. Then you don’t need a holding area for horses to be kept (potentially within the sight and sound of slaughter) while drugs leave their system. If Japan and Europe want to eat horse meat, let them raise their own. OR allow horse meat to be exported only if the horses come from an approved farm where they are raised for that reason only.

  4. INCREASE AND ENFORCE penalties for abuse/neglect/abandonment of horses. Too often, even those who do not take responsibility for their animals, as we all do, get away without penalty. If there were consequences for abuse and abandonment, there might be less of it.

  5. Encourage your breed organization and/or competition organization to collect fees that would be used specifically for programs that assist people in financial difficulty with gelding and with euthanasia. There certainly are people who hang onto their horses beyond their financial ability to best care for them, people who have good intentions but have ended up over their head. Even a fee of $5 per show or registration could add up to a substantial pool of funds that could help reduce the need for slaughter.

  6. Encourage alternative means of disposal. In CT, a horse crematory has recently opened. I don’t know what the cost is, and I suspect it’s substantial. However, the more options there are for dealing with the obviously difficult question of a large, dead, animal, the better off the living animals will be. Including us.