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Article on slaughter - pretty ballsy

Eventing
#41

I think a local solution is the most humane way to go. Something like the slaughter vans that go around to farms to slaughter cattle and poultry for people, or just a knacker with a gun and good aim. I don’t believe that there will ever be enough over site to ensure that things are done humanely in a large scale slaughter plant scenario.

If slaughter on the farm means that will be a small cost associated with it then perhaps rescues would step in and help cover the cost for those people who couldn’t afford it.

As for people still shipping across the boarder, on another board someone suggested charging something like $1000 to ship a horse out of the country to either Canada or Mexico. The money would be refunded if the horse returns within X number of days, to allow people to attend competitions, send a horse for breeding etc. Not a perfect solution, and one that presents it’s own issues, but the best one I have heard to prevent our horses from being transported out of the country for slaughter.

As for government regulations controlling who can breed, even if you could find a reasonable way to go about it (which I doubt), the people causing the problem will never follow the rules. Like so many other things in our society, it will only make it more cumbersome and costly for the responsible people (breeders) to do business.

#42

I saw the idea of a mobile slaughter/butchering unit on “Dirty Jobs” once, where the butcher did farm calls for cattle slaughter. They killed the cow in its farm shed, and did the dirty work in a sterile, well-equipped trailer and hauled the carcass to the shop for final processing. I have no doubt it could be applied to horses, but I still doubt it would be inexpensive.

A couple of issues though:

  1. As long as it is more expensive, and regular slaughter routes are open, I imagine most horses will still go the mass-slaughter route. Those people do not want to spend ANY money if they can make a few bucks instead.

  2. If you utilize the mobile unit, and the carcass goes on to either critter food or a French cuisine plate, are you willing to withhold drugs that are making your horse comfortable for 30-60 days?

  3. I would love to see better regulation of breeding; I would love better regulation of a lot of things! As long as our country has the views of anti-regulation of everything, including keeping our air and water clean, I don’t hold out much hope for that.

  4. People suck! While there are obviously many, many exceptions, human nature seems to be all for Cheaper, Easier, Faster. It’s not just in horse (or any other animal) slaughter, it is in breeding, training, business, local, national, everywhere. It’s easier to shuffle Grandma off to a nursing home; it is cheaper to manufacture stuff overseas than in the US; it’s faster to send animals fast as possible through that stun box; you get the point. Cheaper, Easier, Faster is not always right, but it makes the bottom lines look better at the end of the fiscal year.

#43

[QUOTE=RiverBendPol;6004498]
JP…hmmmmmm. I wonder if they could be portable. So, let’s see… I could set the thing up in my 2-horse goose neck trailer. I drive to Joe Blow’s farm/backyard. Joe and I lead Ol’ Bluey into the trailer, I give him some carrots and blast him in the brain then drive him to the knackerman’s place? I guess it could work. o[/QUOTE]

Worked for YEARS. (Heck, get a humane killer, ie a hand-held bolt gun that for decades was the normal humane way to put a horse down, and then you don’t have to worry when the anti-firearms fanatics come for the guns…) The only problem is, what knacker’s yard? I wouldn’t object to this method at all, the trick is getting a knacker/renderer to set up shop in a reasonable distance, and then to have a lot of those people all over the country. Too many people have an absolute fit about anyone dealing with dead animals setting up in their neighborhood, even if it’s processing animals that aren’t cutsey widdle horsies but cows, pigs, goats, sheep, etc. Some people like to think meat comes in plastic packages at Super Wal-Mart and has nothing to do with animals. (They’re the same people who buy an electric car and tell themselves it’s saving the world because they honestly think electricity comes from the plug and lithium is made by magic pixies.) They would scream bloody murder about a processor no matter how humanely the animals died.

I would be fine about it, and as I live in a low-income rural area I suspect most people around here wouldn’t object (except for the summer people with lake cottages, but they’re the ones who dump their cats at the end of the season so who cares what they think). I don’t know how well it would fly among the more affluent horse crowd.

Heck, I’d like to see vets make Bell guns and humane killers a more commonplace option. (Yeah, people would have to grow up about the sight of blood. Guess what? Even if you gussy it up with a needle, you’re still killing the horse.) Not only is that a cheaper option and a faster kill, but it makes disposal a little easier (burial and composting become possible in more cases.) Plus now that they’re going to use the same drugs in human executions, it’s only a matter of time before they’re deemed ‘inhumane’ anyway…

Regarding drug withholding, I really don’t think that is the problem people on this board think it is–racehorses, yes (once they set a limit/withdrawal for bute in human consumption stock, which is why it’s not allowed right now, or the ban it in racing entirely), show barns apparently have insane pharmacoepias judging by posts on here, but out there in the ‘casual’ owner world, WHAT DRUGS? Seriously, there are eight horses in our barn, none are going for slaughter, and none of them get anything beyond wormers and vaccines. Not even the old man, who gets massage for his aches and senior feed for his weight and just light work. Lucky’s fanciest ‘drug’ is biotin for his feet and he’s the only one who gets anything special. I’ve got horses across the street from me, horses next door to me–they’re not getting medications for anything, they’re not sick. Most horses out here live on hay and water and if they really need calories, grain. There isn’t this perception you can’t possibly keep a horse without constantly medicating it.

#44

Just want to compliment…

I just want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread for their civil and thoughtful discourse. This is such a hot button, complicated subject that it is easy to let passion take over. I’m proud to be part of this on-line community of eventers for reaching beyond the emotion to try to identify issues and suggest solutions.

#45

I applaud your decision.

[QUOTE=RacetrackReject;6004607]
Well, I guess I will out myself. I sort of had my own horse slaughtered, or I guess I actually did. His body was failing him and I wanted to do something more green than euthing him and having him carried off by a removal company, so I did some research. I found a large cat rescue near me and spoke with and investigated them until I was comfortable having them use my guy to feed the cats.
As it turns out, the rescue owner maintains a herd of horses off site from the rescue so my guy got to go there and chill for a few weeks, until his number was called. My mother (I had gotten the horse for her) went to see him the morning of D day and said he was not stressed, but comfortably chowing down on hay until near the end.
Do I think my choice is right for everyone? Not at all. Do I feel comfortable with the choice I made? Mostly. I think people always doubt whether they did the right thing or not, but at the same time I don’t feel that what I did was wrong, if that makes sense. My view was that my horse was going to die no matter what and his body was just a vessel holding him back. At the time of his death, what made him “him” would be gone from his body anyway. I had to be able to separate him from his body in my mind in order to be able make the choice I did.[/QUOTE]

Well done.:sadsmile:

#46

Exactly!!

[QUOTE=danceronice;6004722]
Worked for YEARS. (Heck, get a humane killer, ie a hand-held bolt gun that for decades was the normal humane way to put a horse down, and then you don’t have to worry when the anti-firearms fanatics come for the guns…) The only problem is, what knacker’s yard? I wouldn’t object to this method at all, the trick is getting a knacker/renderer to set up shop in a reasonable distance, and then to have a lot of those people all over the country. Too many people have an absolute fit about anyone dealing with dead animals setting up in their neighborhood, even if it’s processing animals that aren’t cutsey widdle horsies but cows, pigs, goats, sheep, etc. Some people like to think meat comes in plastic packages at Super Wal-Mart and has nothing to do with animals. (They’re the same people who buy an electric car and tell themselves it’s saving the world because they honestly think electricity comes from the plug and lithium is made by magic pixies.) They would scream bloody murder about a processor no matter how humanely the animals died.

I would be fine about it, and as I live in a low-income rural area I suspect most people around here wouldn’t object (except for the summer people with lake cottages, but they’re the ones who dump their cats at the end of the season so who cares what they think). I don’t know how well it would fly among the more affluent horse crowd.

Heck, I’d like to see vets make Bell guns and humane killers a more commonplace option. (Yeah, people would have to grow up about the sight of blood. Guess what? Even if you gussy it up with a needle, you’re still killing the horse.) Not only is that a cheaper option and a faster kill, but it makes disposal a little easier (burial and composting become possible in more cases.) Plus now that they’re going to use the same drugs in human executions, it’s only a matter of time before they’re deemed ‘inhumane’ anyway…

Regarding drug withholding, I really don’t think that is the problem people on this board think it is–racehorses, yes (once they set a limit/withdrawal for bute in human consumption stock, which is why it’s not allowed right now, or the ban it in racing entirely), show barns apparently have insane pharmacoepias judging by posts on here, but out there in the ‘casual’ owner world, WHAT DRUGS? Seriously, there are eight horses in our barn, none are going for slaughter, and none of them get anything beyond wormers and vaccines. Not even the old man, who gets massage for his aches and senior feed for his weight and just light work. Lucky’s fanciest ‘drug’ is biotin for his feet and he’s the only one who gets anything special. I’ve got horses across the street from me, horses next door to me–they’re not getting medications for anything, they’re not sick. Most horses out here live on hay and water and if they really need calories, grain. There isn’t this perception you can’t possibly keep a horse without constantly medicating it.[/QUOTE]

All this!

#47

I am 100% supportive of a local shoot-and-truck system. I have mentioned it in every slaughter debate I have ever participated in. I am not opposed at all to killing horses when their time is up, I just demand ethics and humane treatment (I know, it’s crazy). Death is a part of life, it happens to everything, and as an owner, our responsibility to do our best to make sure it is a humane one.

Lead him on the trailer, stuff him with carrots, bam, haul him away. Very simple, been done a million times before.

#48

I agree with Annie that as volatile as this topic can be, it serves us all well when a rational discussion can result in possible actions.

With some good ideas floating around, how can this be broached locally? I’m not one to start up a new business, but has anyone tried working with a local government to see if a local “center” or traveling option could be promoted and supported. In what way could we begin to educate and also provide options for people like me who have horses, but honestly do not know what to do when the time comes. (My horse will never go to “national” slaughter as long as I own them, local…maybe…at home, yes when the time came).

I want to thank the OP for opening this discussion. I’ve learned from this, but more so, I’ve been able to better confront my own fears and concerns about the future. I feel I may be better equipped to deal with the moment.

#49

I, too, like the idea of a local solution. And we used to have it: the Foxhunt kennells.

When a horse was otherwise going to be euthanized or sent to slaughter and was not sick with any communicable disease they were sent to the hunt kennels where the keeper of the hounds (a devoted lover of animals) shot the horse and rendered him for consumption by the hounds. Because the man did this fairly regularly he was an expert at doing the deed quickly and as painlessly as possible. Because the horses were from the community of foxhunters the huntsman knew the owners and consequently knew (as much as one can know without quarantine) that the horse was drug-free. I also witnessed a horse who died of an anureism (sp?) in the field get hauled off to the kennels within 30 minutes of passing. He was rendered, too.

As RacetrackReject said this was a sort of “green” solution that reduced waste and gave the horse a final purpose. Unfortunately, the hunt no longer offers this service. They now feed pallets of kibble only to the hounds. I 98% certain that this is because feeding the horses to the hounds was outlawed (PA) but I cannot find the law or any other reference… I’ll go do some legal research now.

But it WAS a good solution.

#50

[QUOTE=VicariousRider;6004879]
I, too, like the idea of a local solution. And we used to have it: the Foxhunt kennells.

But it WAS a good solution.[/QUOTE]

This is still done, but not all kennels offer this service to the community. Not just horses are fed. Farmers will take recently deceased cattle and calves.

I am not aware of any jurisdiction which bans this service. However, there may be instances in which zoning or local regulations make it impractical or unwise.

Packs are smaller these days, so not as much flesh is needed. Some clubs only feed flesh in the winter, to avoid problems with smells and flies. Other clubs don’t feed it at all.

I took one of my horses to the kennel. I promised him I wouldn’t put him through another winter and I kept my promise. He had a good life, a humane end, and a pack of beautiful, hard working hounds received excellent, healthy protein. The huntsman knew exactly what to do.

While we cannot utilize kennels to dispose of all horses, for people within the hunting and farming community, in some areas, this is still an option.

#51

When I was a kid there were zoos and near us there was a big cat sanctuary that would take them. Your vet could do it or they would do it there at the sanctuary. Is this still a viable option?

#52

Thank you so much for saying more about this. I will contact my friend who is the whip for the hunt right now to see if she has any more concrete information about why they had to stop. I recall that there was a legal reason and I know that there has been much turmoil in Pennsylvania for hunts given the laws restricting kennels (which were enacted to get rid of puppy mills but also effected hunt kennels as well). The change might be related to that legislation or registration process. I’ll look into it.

#53

Ah… Yes, the PA legislation was pretty dramatic to say the least. It could very well have made it impractical, if not impossible, to feed flesh.

If that’s the case, it’s a shame. Unintended consequences and all that…

#54

[QUOTE=Eventfan4LIFE;6001763]
As I said on another thread, I don’t know how I feel about this subject. But the writer makes some good points.

http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/dec/03/seattle-stew-thanks-no-thanks/[/QUOTE]

The article is misleading on several points. Even when we had slaughter here, we sent several thousand horses a year to Mexico to be slaughtered by Pithing (knife in spinal cord). That horsemeat is fed to the factory workers in Mexico often disguised as beef. They are still slaughtering the same number that way now, as they did when the US slaughterhouses were open. The increased number of horses being sent to Mexico, now that the SH in the US have closed are slaughtered exactly as we did here, under EU guidelines, by Captive bolt gun or bullet.
Opening SH’s here in the US will not change the number killed by Pithing. They have had a steady demand for the factory worker’s, and will kill the same number regardless of what we do. Having a SH in the US would reduce the number of horses killed at the EU plants. However, the horses killed here were not any more humane than Canada or Mexico’s large SH’s that send the horsemeat overseas.

#55

[QUOTE=fish;6001833]
And thank you for posting this. It’s been my position all along, and I remember arguing with friends supporting anti-slaughter laws before they were passed. At that time, one of them said she was doing so in hopes that the resulting mess would result in passage of the kind of regulations that would provide “a Temple-Grandin-structured … place,” and equally humane transport to it. Seems to me that now’s the time-- and I really hope it happens! All the hoopla about what happens to the meat is beyond me. I wouldn’t mind being dogfood myself if I could die relatively free of fear and pain… in fact, being a committed recycler who abhors waste, I rather like the idea. I remember all too well watching a friend waste away from cancer, saying “I’d never let anything so awful happen to my horses!”

Donation to feed animals not being an option, I’ve donated my corpse to serve medical and educational purposes.[/QUOTE]

Temple Grandin stated at the Unwanted Horse meeting in Las Vegas, that horse slaughter in the US could never be humane because the SH won’t spend the money/time.

Have you seen the most recent video from Canada taken at a Temple Grandin designed, state of the art facility over a 2 day period?
This was a TG designed plant- http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/lpn.html

Love the suggestion of mobile killers/processors that travel everywhere. But they would need to make the owners pay something for the process. Not pay the owners for the meat.

#56

Oh great. I mention that this thread is rational and civil, and note that it’s because none of you people are posting on it, and suddenly you discover it.

Guess this ones going to go the same way of the other one. Nice. Can’t wait till inflammatory rhetoric starts.

#57

[QUOTE=JSwan;6005208]
Oh great. I mention that this thread is rational and civil, and note that it’s because none of you people are posting on it, and suddenly you discover it.

Guess this ones going to go the same way of the other one. Nice. Can’t wait till inflammatory rhetoric starts.[/QUOTE]

(psst- there is nothing imflammatory in my post.) Relax.

#58

The thread has been wonderfully civil, and can continue to be so. When there are posts that veer off the rails, just nod and smile…and go back to trying to find solutions.

#59

[QUOTE=RiverBendPol;6004479]
betonbill, thanks for updating your link. Shattering.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

#60

This is the theory but often not the facts. Horses are not always knocked out before hoisted. They have documented this. Also they have found horse heads with as many as 6 captive bolt strikes and that doesn’t mean that they finally did get the horse knocked out. The strikes to the side of the head do not reach the horse’s brain properly since their brain is not close to the side and only a strike on the front of their heads are effective and the horse is supposed to have their heads restrained and that doesn’t happen in a commercial slaughterhouse. We all know that most horses don’t like to have you come at them between their eyes. They will always be afraid. Also the bolt delivers a very painful blow and if they aren’t knocked out the first try they are in extreme pain.

Efficiency is important in any business so the horses must keep moving down the assembly line of death. Does that sound like I’m trying to be dramatic? Well guess what, when you kill it is dramatic. The whole slaughter scene is a house of horrors, of course. Put yourself in that position, you’re in line and realize that the horse in front of you was just hit in the head and you are next. It’s also a fact that they kill foals all the time too. They will kill a mare and her foal one after another.

There’s nothing pretty about it and horse slaughter is different than other species because horses are different and what works for one animals does not work for all.

There will always be horses that must be killed but how it’s done defines us as a society. The relationship between horse and human should be recognized, it’s undeniable that civlized man has always had a special relationship with horse from the time they were domesticated. My Congressman told me once that society dictates what they deem to be socially acceptable and can make laws accordingly.

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