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Attention Parents- What is wrong???

Hunter/Jumper
#21

Devil’s advocate for a moment… (I don’t know these guys and I haven’t followed closely…but)

  1. can you prove that no one else had access to those computers?

  2. is there proof that the persons involved have molested children or are the self limiting to internet porn?

Look, without going into gory details, let me assure you that I am ADAMANTLY opposed to exposing children to people who have abused/molested children.

That being said, is it fair or legal to deprive someone of making a living? If they are good horse trainers, let 'em train some horses. Let them train adults. I personally would not put any kid of mine in the hands of someone with a seedy history KNOWINGLY…but you know, I know a handful of people that participate in some pretty interesting things that I personally don’t approve of…but it doesn’t affect their ability to do their job safely and professionally.

#22

[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;2625382]
Devil’s advocate for a moment… (I don’t know these guys and I haven’t followed closely…but)

  1. can you prove that no one else had access to those computers?

  2. is there proof that the persons involved have molested children or are the self limiting to internet porn?

Look, without going into gory details, let me assure you that I am ADAMANTLY opposed to exposing children to people who have abused/molested children.

That being said, is it fair or legal to deprive someone of making a living? If they are good horse trainers, let 'em train some horses. Let them train adults. I personally would not put any kid of mine in the hands of someone with a seedy history KNOWINGLY…but you know, I know a handful of people that participate in some pretty interesting things that I personally don’t approve of…but it doesn’t affect their ability to do their job safely and professionally.[/QUOTE]

Soresi pled guilty (http://www.1010wins.com/pages/385624.php). He does have the means to fight if it weren’t true

Ken Krause(sp) has been found guilty at least one time(I believe more) of actual acts on children. There are countless treads that have the court details.

And yes just ban them for places with children present. Soresi has much to offer in other ascpets of the sport.

#23

I’m curious as to what the conditions of their probations are. I know that many states prohibit child molesters from attending venues where children are known to frequent such as schools and playgrounds. I wonder if the fact that they are attending horse shows where there are tons of children around would be a violation of their probation.

#24

In the case Of one guy in Conn. The judge approved a list of people that had to accompany him to shows where kids were. Interesting fact is one of the approved persons on the list is his 19 year old girlfriend. ( GUY IS 40 PLUS).He has already violated his probation, but had a hand slap. Gotta love the system.

#25

Hey all,
Just for comparison’s sake, put this same scenario into any other sport - football, baseball, soccer, etc. What do you think would happen? I would bet the player would be suspended from ‘play’ immediately until they went to court. Even if found innocent, their career would probably be over. I noticed just a hint of something like this recently when a professional football player was charged with dog fighting. Voila! Media frenzy!
Of course I am NOT comparing these 2 charges, just wanted to make a point. I know that our sport is not ‘mainstream’ like the ones mentioned above, but I find it completely unacceptable that the main governing body of ANY sport would not take action if someone (especially a professional in that sport) had serious charges levied against them.
Can any of you even IMAGINE the NFL NOT doing something to a player if they had the exact same charges levied against them?
Wow - I know what this says to me about our ‘sport’. I can just imagine what it says to newbies and their parents.
I have read many posts on this subject, with many theories on why nothing has been done. Regardless of the theories brought forth, the USEF is responsible for making the sport as safe and fair as possible. Yes, it’s a BIG job, and no governing body is perfect, by any means. However, as the above comparison illustrates, it appears there are some glaring holes in the rule book. These holes should be filled by enabling the USEF to take action against any individual who has been charged with any kind of serious crime. But most importantly, REQUIRE some sort of action on their part and FULL documentation of their response and outcome. Perhaps a special group could be formed (with legal experience/help) just to deal with these types of sticky situations. It’s happened before and it will happen again. If the USEF does the right thing, I will NEVER have to write about this type of thing again for the rest of my life.

#26

Sounds like the Catholic church.

It’s all about the Benjamins baby!!

#27

Spider queen!

#28

WTH is a spider queen???

#29

KK also ran a website/message board that was rampant with children and had access to all of their information…hmmm…

#30

[QUOTE=Instant Karma;2626819]
WTH is a spider queen???[/QUOTE]

It’s from an episode of South Park called Red Hot Catholic Love where the Catholic church is found to be led by a giant spider from another dimension instead of the Pope. It’s kinda funny cause the USEF is a lot like the Catholic church as portrayed in that episode in that President O’Connor (essentially the Pope) has little power and the organization is too wrapped up in stupid traditions, titles, child molestation, and rituals which have alienated the common folk from attending church. George Morris is probably the closest thing to the Spider Queen though I am sure there are others who could fit the bill.

#31

Oh yes, the Spider Queen. :lol:
Then who are the Gelgamic Catholic’s then? :confused:

#32

Well said WB. Many people in our sport and on this very bb. go nuts if an animal is abused and they get involved, put effort into solutions, etc. But a child? They turn the other way. I don’t get it. Really makes me mad.

I wrote to USEF asking what their official position is on individuals like Kraus and Soresi participating in USEF sanctioned events.

#33

[QUOTE=pds;2627638]
Well said WB. Many people in our sport and on this very bb. go nuts if an animal is abused and they get involved, put effort into solutions, etc. But a child? They turn the other way. I don’t get it. Really makes me mad.

I wrote to USEF asking what their official position is on individuals like Kraus and Soresi participating in USEF sanctioned events.

In addition I wonder if the business clients of Mason Phelps PR group (Kraus’ employer) know that they are being associated with a convicted child predator.

Clients like;
The American Diabetes Assoc.
Fidelity Investments
Kentucky Horse Park Foundation
Taylor Harris Insurance Services - THIS

Maybe a writing campain to these and others needs to hapen as well.[/QUOTE]
Please let us know what the USEF’s response is to you.

#34

Atleast you now know about those 2 sicko’s. As a parent I worry more about the sicko’s we don’t know about and I hear there are plenty of those around:confused:

#35

[QUOTE=Busymummy;2625476]
I’m curious as to what the conditions of their probations are. I know that many states prohibit child molesters from attending venues where children are known to frequent such as schools and playgrounds. I wonder if the fact that they are attending horse shows where there are tons of children around would be a violation of their probation.[/QUOTE]

(note: I don’t know the specifics of either case)
I was going to comment on this aswell. The only thing I can think of, is horse shows are not SOLELY for children, like schools and playgrounds. It would be like trying to ban them from a supermarket, or a movie theatre where there will most certainly be children, but also adults.

I’m in the criminal justice field, and while this makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, I’m not sure USEF could legally ban them from shows, assuming that they served their time and are complying with all of their parole/probation regulations. It is a lot like the scenerio of a registered sex offender moving into a neighborhood: Parents do not want them there (for good reason), but their hands are basically tied until the person offends again and further legal action can be taken.

Just some food for thought. And it is the parents responsibility to take watch of their children, that is one of the reasons why sex offenders must register.

To the OP: if you find a dead end with USEF (which I would assume you will) I would take priority in making it known to parents whose children could potentially be at a show with these two men that they are registered. Kind of like neighborhoods do. Unfortunatley, some parents may not even be aware.

#36

The only way anything will ever happen is if people vote with their $$. Don’t patronize the shows that ignore the KK issue, and let them know why. Don’t patronize clients of Mason Phelps, and let them know why. make it very public. No other youth sport organization could stay in business letting sex offenders around kids - especially offenders with a conviction involving a minor.

But this is a very clubby sport (ya think?) and the good old boys take care of each other. As long as customers tolerate it, it will continue. But it’s going to take the loss of $$, and lots of public bemoaning (publicity over it) to keep Kraus of the grounds of any show where he’s covering the events. Who’s willing to give up a big chunk of their show schedule to make a point? If I were showing, I probably would, and be a complete public PITA about why, but I’m not, for at least the next year or so.

That’s the only way, IMO, you’re going to get anything done. It’s all about the Benjamins at this level. Wish I could help, because it’s a shandeh.

#37

[QUOTE=LexInVA;2627128]
It’s from an episode of South Park called Red Hot Catholic Love where the Catholic church is found to be led by a giant spider from another dimension instead of the Pope. It’s kinda funny cause the USEF is a lot like the Catholic church as portrayed in that episode in that President O’Connor (essentially the Pope) has little power and the organization is too wrapped up in stupid traditions, titles, child molestation, and rituals which have alienated the common folk from attending church. George Morris is probably the closest thing to the Spider Queen though I am sure there are others who could fit the bill.[/QUOTE]

HAHA missed that one!!! I am more of a Mr. Hankey and Towelie fan myself:lol:

#38

Indeed. Though their bylaws state they can ban any USEF member or affiliate from recognized shows, they obviously have no ability (or authority) to enforce such a decree without taking legal action against someone who is found to be present after being banned and the justice system generally won’t hand out that kind of provision unless the offense was related to horse shows. Since both men are first time sex offenders, the penalties are of course in their favor and the same is true with most criminals unless they are charged with multiple offenses. The really disturbing thing (apart from the public tolerance of pedophiles and sex offenders in general) is that there are groups out there which actually support pedophiles and advocate that they should be allowed to be around children as often as they like because they are misunderstood and (in their own opinion) really are no threat to the children and can watch out for the ones who are. I don’t know the circumstances of Ken Kraus’ offense but I know Soresi would be a poster boy for those people.

#39

[QUOTE=ktm2007;2628346]
(note: I don’t know the specifics of either case)
I was going to comment on this aswell. The only thing I can think of, is horse shows are not SOLELY for children, like schools and playgrounds. It would be like trying to ban them from a supermarket, or a movie theatre where there will most certainly be children, but also adults.

I’m in the criminal justice field, and while this makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, I’m not sure USEF could legally ban them from shows, assuming that they served their time and are complying with all of their parole/probation regulations. It is a lot like the scenerio of a registered sex offender moving into a neighborhood: Parents do not want them there (for good reason), but their hands are basically tied until the person offends again and further legal action can be taken.

[QUOTE]

I have no legal background but I believe you to be incorrect. This is not “like” a supermarket or theatre. USEF is a NGB (National governing body) of an organization. It runs these events and says if someone can participate in its events(riding, training, judging walking on it grounds) If you don’t believe me ask Barney Ward, Paul Valiere(SP) or the hundreds of other people not allowed on USEF sanctioned events.2007 Rulebook GR703 1(2)

They can suspend someone for … Acting or inciting or permitting any other to act in a manner contrary to the rules of
the Federation, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest,
unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the sport and the Federation. 2007 Rulebook GR702 1(D)

If the USEF says they cant because of a lawsuit that is BS. I don’t think too many CONVICTED predators have won suit to allow them at events with kids. Plus image the suit when an incident happens at a show.

Or worst yet when the first TV camera shows up and no parent send there kid to there first lesson much less show? They have risked the very existence of our sport by turning a blind eye!

#40

[QUOTE=ktm2007;2628346]
(note: I don’t know the specifics of either case)
I was going to comment on this aswell. The only thing I can think of, is horse shows are not SOLELY for children, like schools and playgrounds. It would be like trying to ban them from a supermarket, or a movie theatre where there will most certainly be children, but also adults.

I’m in the criminal justice field, and while this makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, I’m not sure USEF could legally ban them from shows, assuming that they served their time and are complying with all of their parole/probation regulations. It is a lot like the scenerio of a registered sex offender moving into a neighborhood: Parents do not want them there (for good reason), but their hands are basically tied until the person offends again and further legal action can be taken.

Just some food for thought. And it is the parents responsibility to take watch of their children, that is one of the reasons why sex offenders must register.

To the OP: if you find a dead end with USEF (which I would assume you will) I would take priority in making it known to parents whose children could potentially be at a show with these two men that they are registered. Kind of like neighborhoods do. Unfortunatley, some parents may not even be aware.[/QUOTE]

I disagree!

I have no legal background but I have read the rulebook quite a bit. This is not “like” a supermarket or theatre. USEF is a NGB (National governing body) of an organization. It runs these events and says if someone can participate in its events(riding, training, judging walking on it grounds) If you don’t believe me ask Barney Ward, Paul Valiere(SP) or the hundreds of other people not allowed on USEF sanctioned events.2007 Rulebook GR703 1(2)

They can suspend someone for … Acting or inciting or permitting any other to act in a manner contrary to the rules of
the Federation, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest,
unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the sport and the Federation. 2007 Rulebook GR702 1(D)

If the USEF says they cant because of a lawsuit that is BS. I don’t think too many CONVICTED predators have won suit to allow them at events with kids. Plus image the suit when an incident happens at a show.

Or worst yet when the first TV camera shows up and no parent send there kid to there first lesson much less show? They have risked the very existence of our sport by turning a blind eye!

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