Don’t forget, this is America, and they, like the drunk drivers and addicts, are still free to roam the beaches, parks, and neighborhoods to their hearts’ content.
Really now, why the America-bash? It sounds like you think America’s the only country who doesn’t execute or incarcerate for life or send 'em off to leper colonies…
[QUOTE=backinthebay;2630612]
That is avalid agrument. But should we try and ban them and if it fails in court at least we tried(or at least we did keep them away for a till overturned). It probably would help the USEF’s case when they get sued when an incedent happens at a show.
Yes I am sure about the DUI stat. Many do repeat but most dont. 65% of DUI arrests are first time offenses, 35% are 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. Thank you for the lack of sharkyness.[/QUOTE]
I have no intention to be sharky! And I think your “if it fails in court, at least we tried” attitude is great. In all my posts I was trying my hardest to keep my opinion on the whole matter out, and just come about it from a legal standpoint.
Good luck to all those who do try to get people like this banned!
(sorry Erin, If I am the one who crossed the line there!)
Here is the link to the sex offender registry that list Ken Kraus (picture and all). Click on search and type in his last name.
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/offenderSearchNav.do?link=showSelectedPersonsList
What would happen if everyone here went to this site, printed out copies of the flyer and spread them around to parents at any show that KK has anything to do with?
Everyone here should be writing or calling the USEF and asking what our governing organizations official position is on matters such as this and what they are doing about it! This guy was allowed to access/interview young children at The North American Young Riders Championships. What is wrong with some of you people on here!!!
PDS-
I did email USEF–and their response was pitiful! If you’d like a copy of the emails the sent–pm me and I will forward them on.
Pitiful…pitiful…pitiful:cry:
however, they were quick to reply and at least I found out where they stand. I kind of thought my email was going to be ignored. Still–the responses were pitiful:(
[QUOTE=CarrieK;2630794]
Really now, why the America-bash? It sounds like you think America’s the only country who doesn’t execute or incarcerate for life or send 'em off to leper colonies…[/QUOTE]
That was sarcasm.
Bingo!
I have wondered for years now, what is up with a certain kind of person/parent who seems to be attracted to our sports. The kind who live vicariously thru their children, the kind who want their kids to have the big flashy inappropriate horse, the kind who want their children to win at any cost… the kind who think it’s ok to expose their child to the environment a known pedophile stalks in.
It is alarming, to say the least.
I sent an email to the USEF as well. It has been more than 10 days and no response. Shame on the USEF!!!:(
[QUOTE=pds;2638315]
I sent an email to the USEF as well. It has been more than 10 days and no response. Shame on the USEF!!!:(:([/QUOTE]
I saw what they sent Bosox. I would have been less discussed with no answer at all. Running USEF, so easy a (co-conspiring)caveman could do it!
Hey bosox, thanks for the pm.
The USEF responses were pathetic. How can a govering body of a sport NOT have a policy that bans convicted child sexual offenders from membership or participation in events? Particularly when the membership of the sport the govering body is responsible for, has a large number of children!
USEF and every adult member needs to “step up to the plate” here and do what is right. If not, then the USEF and dare I say, every adult member of the USEF is guilty the next time a child is sexually assulted by one of these known or yet unknown creeps!
I’m ashamed to say I’m a member of an organization that remains inactive on such an important issue.
PDS- All I can say is “Wow”. I went to the sex offender site and there he was. What does it take for parents to wake up? I have checked the sex offender site in GA numerous times just to see what is going on in my area. I searched my street and surrounding neighborhoods before I moved. I have searched individuals when I have signed my child up for activities. You can never be too careful. And I know they say it isn’t the ones that are registered that you have to worry about as much as the onse you don’t know about. Kind of true, but I am not vrey forgiving of anyone who does not know how to behave around children. If I know about you, all the more reason to avoid you. :mad:
[QUOTE=pds;2629408]
Belladonnalily wrote "Parents AREN’T watching them! That is the problem!!!"
Are you able to watch your 13yr old every minute of everyday? I bet not. Physically imposible unless you are some type of super human.
I agree that parents should be careful of the situations they allow their children to be in. I think that is part of the reason this thread is important. It brings light to the situation that some parents might not have known about otherwise.
I also believe strongly that our governing body has an obligation to address issues such as this.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but no one wants to inconvenience themselves enough to stop supporting an organization that WON’T do anything about it. And then they drop the kids off there…and complain that the organization hasn’t done anything :no:
And my point is that these 2 guys are not your children’s biggest threat. The guys you don’t know about yet ARE. Our local serial rapist has been working at the local Harris Teeter for years. Married w/children. Former military. Just an everyday guy. He’s had 10 years to go unnoticed.
So, if you are dropping your 12 and 13yo kids off at shows, malls and whereever the hell else that you know they aren’t being supervised, you ARE responsible for what happens.
And YES, I do know where my child is every minute of the day. She does not get dropped at the mall. I am very careful about whose house she goes to (we have a convicted child predator in the community and his daughter, whom he still lives with :rolleyes:, is in the same grade with my daughter). You’d better believe that if I’m not watching my daughter, someone I know and trust is, every minute of the day :yes: Can’t fathom why that is so unbelievable. She doesn’t drive yet, doesn’t have a job yet and thus has no reason to be unsupervised.
She also doesn’t have a cell phone, internet or tv in her room, and has to do “chores”. Basically, she’s abused :lol:
My wife works as a lawyer and was on the Prosecution Team for Operation Ore and latterly for the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Unit. She’s dealt with some horrific high profile international cases. She only occassionally tells me detail and that tends to be after the court case and its absolutely sickening.
Regrettably these sickos are more prevelent than they ought to be and come in all walks of life and all too sadly cloaked in respectability and with an ability to con and manipulate and control not just children but parents as well, into trusting them.
Its also vital to appreciate that most children who are abused are abused by relatives and friends of their parents and hence by people their parents trust.
Its hard “outing” these sickos. Its harder prosecuting them. Its never possible to give them what I consider to be appropriate justice considering the lives they wreck and the damage they do.
This thread is likely to be closed but it emphasises the importance of protecting innocent children and also preventing these perverts from accessing them. And certainly they shouldn’t be afforded access by organisations who are responsible for organising things related to and provided for young people.
Ah, so you don’t watch your child 24/7. What you do is no diff. than most parents I know.
Many children are sexually abused by a “trusted” friend, family member, teacher, trainer, etc.
I see far more good parents than I do bad ones, so for me this is not about parenting. It is more about how those that know who these sickos are in our sport, keep silent.
Who here is willing to stand up and do the right thing?
Who here is willing to help educate unsuspecting parents and children of OUR organization about these creeps?
Who here is willing to keep pressure on the USEF to take a stand?
Pretty quite out there.
The attitude that it is all the parents responsibility is a cop out for those too chicken shit to get involved and help make a difference!
WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY!!! Whatever happend to the concept looking out for one antoher.
I’m so disgusted with some of the responses posted here;
“I’m to busy”
“It’s the parents fault for not watching their child more closely”
“Lets not hurt the USEF”
Blah, Blah, Blah!
pds, I have never said that the USEF shouldn’t ban them. But as long as PARENTS are supporting them, well, they ARE supporting them and what they stand for, right?
And we are discussing 2 specific men that many believe should be banned from USEF events, NOT my preacher, brother, teacher, neighbor, or anyone else I know. Please stay on topic. It stands without saying that a trusted friend or family member COULD do something to one of my children. Not something I like to think about, but not something always in my control. What IS in my control is keeping men like the 2 aforementioned bozos away from my child. THAT is in my control and THAT is my argument. If either of those 2 guys molests my child, I didn’t do my job. There is NO reason for either of them to EVER have access to my child.
So, in summary, certainly I agree that these guys shouldn’t be allowed there. You’re preaching to the choir on that one. BUT, WE, AS PARENTS, could protect our children much more if we did the following:
No longer supported the organization until rules were in place that satisfied us regarding these predators; and then:
Supervised our children at these events. I’m just not in the camp that believe children should be sent off to overnight shows with trainers. Ever. If a parent, aunt or trusted family friend (molestation by family and friends is separate issue, stay with me…) can’t attend, kid doesn’t go. Period.
This, I believe, would solve at least some of the problem. It would take away most, if not all, of the opportunities by sexual predators to have access to children at horse shows.
As always, JMHO.
As a sidenote, we attend the 4H state show every year. Our club last year had a rule that children, no matter the age, HAD to be accompanied by a parent, or another adult the parent had entrusted, while on the show grounds. NO exceptions. Wonderful rule. Inconvenienced the kids a bit but oh well. I don’t understand what is so hard about the whole concept.
and btw, the reason #1 above wont’ happen? Because parents don’t want to be inconvenienced and don’t want to tell precious that they can’t go to their horse shows. So, if the argument is that the USEF should ban them, then who exactly should put the necessary pressure on them to do so??? The parents of the children, perhaps???
It’ll never happen…:sigh:
[QUOTE=LexInVA;2628546]
He was convicted of naughty behavior with a minor. Not sure what exactly happened as the details are not accessible outside of the physical records but it was in Palm Beach and it could have been horse show related though there is no way to confirm that without the records. He’s just one of those ex-elite riders turned equestrian socialite. The only things he does now is announce at upper level shows and write pieces for equestrian websites.[/QUOTE]
I and others contacted KK’s PO several years ago. We were told in detail what he did. Anyone can call, and I suggest you do.
As a sidenote, we attend the 4H state show every year. Our club last year had a rule that children, no matter the age, HAD to be accompanied by a parent, or another adult the parent had entrusted, while on the show grounds. NO exceptions. Wonderful rule. Inconvenienced the kids a bit but oh well. I don’t understand what is so hard about the whole concept.
Because whilst I personally entirely understand the concept of protecting children, from the perspective as a parent, the partner of someone who works prosecuting sickos and as a riding instructor, I also appreciate the huge benefit of developing young people to their full potential.
Of course as parents we all want to protect them and think we are the best person to do that and to develop them but in truth there’s huge value of such as camps with their peer group and with other RESPONSIBLE adults and without the parent in constant attendance. And be clear I’m not meaning normal sensible supervision: I personally do not understand parent allowing children access to the internet in their own rooms and without supervision and I don’t understand those who phone riding centres and just ask “how much is it” and don’t bother their backsides about anything else. (I have all staff’s child protection training certificates prominently displayed and likewise for our Criminal Record Disclosure Clearances and I point them out to parents as part of a process of education in case they should go elsewhere)
I also am persuaded and know how children blossom and respond better and differently when their watchful parent is out of the way.
And at the end I think you’re being VERY naive if you think that:
It is also important to remember, as Thomas 1 points out, the majority of children are abused by people that the parent trusts. Not random bathroom snatchings. In a former career I also prosecuted sex offenders. Invariably the parents (if they believed the child, which is another sad story) were shocked that “Uncle Bob” or the nice neighbour or the brother-in-law or the minister would do something like that. Predators court their prey and their parents. Just something to think about.
pacificsolo that post sounded very ominous. Can you not share any details? Especially since it is public record? Could save a bunch of long distance phone calls for most of us. lol
I was at Young Riders too and saw KK trailing after kids left and right. Really was surprised to see him at that particular event given his record and history. As the weekend went on a few friends and I couldn’t help but find ourselves watching him watching the kids. Worst moment was during the medal presentations at the end, we saw one of the photographers asked him to leave the ring but all he did was shoot from “BEHIND” the kids! That grossed us all out. I’d bet he’s in background of half the shots the photographers took. Can you say yuck.
I’m not a parent but do think this issue is best served by all the parites stepping up to be responsible. USEF should have safe guards and rules in place to protect the kids from the likes of KK and others. Parents should continue to keep an eye on those around their kids. Changes will only happen if parents and all adult members continue to pressure USEF. The hardest obstacles are going to be exactly what someone else brought up earlier; MONEY talks and Mason Phelps since he not employs KK but his pr firm handles the USET. So good luck there. I am sending my letter to both the USEF and USHJA.
Well Belladonnalily, we are discussing these two men as well as the fact that there are others out there in the horse world that just have not been caught yet. A hard line policy by the USEF would take care of the two convicted creeps we know about and would also apply to any future creeps in our sport that are convicted.
I fail to see where that is off topic at all.
And you were the one that titled your original post - “parents aren’t watching them, that is the problem.” Bless your little heart, it just ain’t that simple.
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