No, pds, bless YOUR heart. 
Seeing children turned loose at parties held by a convicted and well-known to be (on the US registry as well) child sex offender for his young daughter just gives me a different perspective on parenting gone wrong than you, obviously. JMHO.
[QUOTE=pds;2640314]
Well Belladonnalily, we are discussing these two men as well as the fact that there are others out there in the horse world that just have not been caught yet. A hard line policy by the USEF would take care of the two convicted creeps we know about and would also apply to any future creeps in our sport that are convicted.
Right. Which was one of my points, that there are many others that havenât been caught. Without effective parenting, there will be lots more first-time victims, right? Letâs keep a closer eye on our children, so perhaps we donât offer them up as bait. It certainly could happen to my kid, but not because I didnât do everything in MY power to keep it from happening. I canât control anyoneâs actions but my own.
And that hard line policy would be great, but AGAIN, parents arenât willing to do what it takes to push the USEF to make those changes. If suddenly all the pony jocks stopped showing, yâthink maybe theyâd notice? Parents would rather keep their kids out there showing, dropping them with trainers and letting all of this go on. This is what Iâm trying to get across, and obviously failing at. Jumping up and down screaming about it wonât help. Speaking with their checkbooks will.
IF THE PARENTS NO LONGER TOLERATED THIS FROM USEF, THEY WOULD DO SOMETHING!
Geez. Is that clear enough? I thought we were fairly close to being on the same side, but I guess not. :no:
I didnât mean for my post to sound ominousâŠjust have an infant on my shoulder while typing
I would feel more comfortable if folks got their info straight from the PO. Several years ago when this topic was first discussed, this information upset many people as another story had been told that sounded a lot less severeâŠseveral people called the PO and told the story here on COTHâŠunfortunately, some kids had looked up to KK and really got upset. I donât want to post anything here, but I will be glad to respond to a PM.
KK e-mailed me a few years ago and told me he was sorry for what he had done; I cannot judge a manâs heart, but being part of the mental health field does make me somewhat skeptical based on recitivism rates among sex offenders. I believe if KK was truly concerned about his issues and about protecting kids, he would not work in an environment in which kids are constantly around him, nor would he invite kids to visit him in the Tower. This is my opinion based on my conversation with his PO, my e-mails with KK and my experience in the mental health field.
Yes, parents bear responsibility to do their best to protect children, but since there IS a law regarding sex offenders, it is also the responsibility of the community and police to see that if the law is broken, the public, ESPECIALLY kids, is/are protected.
[QUOTE=Kenike;2625364]
cool 
USEF is doing themselves a non-favor by turning a blind eye, and I feel they made a mistake by letting this issue go by the fly last year. However, maybe if we parents KEEP ON THEM, theyâll realize that it is a big deal. Truly. And maybe, just maybe theyâll do something about it.[/QUOTE]
Keep after USEF. You the parents are the ones paying membership fees, entry fees, etc. - USEF works for YOU.
Make it known that this is important to youâŠkeep hammering away and get more and more parents, exhibitors, trainers, etc on the band wagon.
KEEP AT IT and donât give up. USEF will come around.
[QUOTE=pacificsolo;2640864]
KK e-mailed me a few years ago and told me he was sorry for what he had done; [/QUOTE]
So heâs sorry. So what, its easy to say and it sounds hollow.
I bet the kids he abused are too !So if heâs that sorry, then he should make amends and he shouldnât be working anywhere near where heâs access to kids and he should be prevented from having access by those in positions of responsibility.
I believe if KK was truly concerned about his issues and about protecting kids, he would not work in an environment in which kids are constantly around him, nor would he invite kids to visit him in the Tower
I agree with you entirely. Sounds like heâs sorry he got caught NOT sorry for what he did!
I agree with you entirely. Sounds like heâs sorry he got caught NOT sorry for what he did!
That was exactly my thought.
YepâŠactions speak louder than words. :no:
Well this is certainly not how you stated your opinion in your first post which is what got this exchange between you and I going.
We do agree that some parents could do a better job with their children but it doesnât stop there. More can be done by our membership and our governing body to help protect the children involved in our sport. Speaking with the pocket book is but one. I argue that it is also the option that requires the least effort and involvement. There are other more involved options available that IMO would garner more immediate results.
Say what you really mean the first time and you will give your little digits some needed rest!:rolleyes:
Why canât it be both?
It should be both: 1. USEF bans or educates people about pedophiles in their midst or whatever action is deemed appropriate (as long as there is SOME action), 2. parents get better and are more aware about keeping a good eye on their kids.
Personally, itâs easier to focus on getting the USEF to take action (note I didnât say âeasier to get them to take actionâ lol) then it is to get parents to be better parents. i also agree that, no matter how good a parent you are, at some point your child may become vulnerable through no fault of them or you and it sure would be nice to know that at least KNOWN pedophiles have no access to your child at a USEF horse show. Nothing is perfect, but we can at least try to reduce the number of avenues for some of these folks. It frustrates me when the logic for doing nothing about one issue is tied into the fact that there may be other issues - Iâm not articulating this well, but itâs like those threads on abuse in one discipline, say TWH Big Lick, turn into people saying âbut itâs worse in Dressage/Racing/WP etcâ - whether that is true or not, IMO itâs best to take action on the issue at hand if you are passionate about it or are affected by it in some way, and tackle the other issues separately as you are able to instead of muddying the waters and taking no action at all because itâs too overwhelming.
So, bottom line, I agree that the best way to approach it is to keep writing to the USEF, maybe get a petition going as suggested and let people know about the known, convicted pedophiles in their midst (because not everyone is âin the knowâ at horse shows - I for one am not familiar with a lot of these people)âŠ
Been reading this one with great interest because some in our barn had what we will call a personal episode last year at a show we have attended for years but as of yesterday we will not be returning this year.
This thread has been full of parents need to, USEF needs to, and shows need to. It looks less and less like USEF will do much without alot of pressure from the memebers so our barn is writing lots of emails. We are also make some hard decisions on where we will now show and at a barn meeting last night decided to share with you one choice and why.
We would be getting ready and excited for the KY fall event but learned that kk is going back this year. I will not say the details but there WAS an incident for one of our friends minor kids last year. The kid was smart enough to walk away and tell an adult. It was uncomfortable for the kid for the last day of show. We tried to find a show manager but no one got back to us. We learned kk is suppose to come back to the show this year, we as a barn took a vote then called to cancel our reservations. We did tell why we were not coming and the person said, âHe doesnât work for us so heâs not our problem.â and âwell there will plenty of others to fill your spots.â
They probably will fill our spots and good for them but we do not think points or pretty ribbons are worth our condoning the likes of kk or a show management with no care.
applauds Corsica
Hope you reported said incident to his probation officer. Believe it or not, the Feds are actually more likely to be responsive on this type of issue than USEF is. :no:
joining WA in applauding Corsica
Iâll also encourage you to have the parents call the PO - this is exactly the kind of thing they need to hear about to be effective. Sorry to hear that the show management was less than tactful.
[QUOTE=corsica;2643357]
We did tell why we were not coming and the person said, âHe doesnât work for us so heâs not our problem.â and âwell there will plenty of others to fill your spots.â[/QUOTE]
What a rotten response from show management! 
Anyone who has been in contact with the USEF or anyone else relating to this please PM me the text of their responses to these matters. I need them for something I am preparing.
[QUOTE=corsica;2643357]
We learned kk is suppose to come back to the show this year, we as a barn took a vote then called to cancel our reservations. We did tell why we were not coming and the person said, âHe doesnât work for us so heâs not our problem.â and âwell there will plenty of others to fill your spots.â
They probably will fill our spots and good for them but we do not think points or pretty ribbons are worth our condoning the likes of kk or a show management with no care.[/QUOTE]
This is absolutely sickening beyond belief. Whatâs wrong with these people? I donât get it.
Just my 2 cents. Even children of the best parents can and often do get molested. I think its sick that people turn their heads regarding this issue. A child sex offender should not be allowed to work with children. Child sex offenders are the hardest to rehabilitate and more often then not end up committing another crime.
I donât see things changing anytime soon, but I do think it is very unfair to say that kids get molested because their parents arenât supervising.
This topic strikes very close to home, and I just thought Iâd put that out there.
To those of you who are acting upon your feelings in this matter, I salute you, and hope that others will be willing to act in some way, however insignificant it may seem. Though I have no present stake in matter, I am going to take action which hopefully will snowball and lead to something positive as I do not want the children I may have someday who (hopefully) would participate in equestrian activities to have an unsafe environment. I also encourage those of you who are parents with children doing other activities to also be proactive against the mentality that the USEF and many other organizations (churches, youth sports clubs, 4H, etc.) have adopted in tolerating those who should not be around children and to remember that you are your childâs last line of defense in this world. (Does anyone else think we need a soapbox smilie?)
We have sent our letters in. This and our choice not to attend the KY show have made all of us alot more at ease. We realize some of the kids will miss out on needed points but after a frank discussion first with the adults of the barn and then with the kids everyone agreed it felt like the right decision. Two of our kids are seeking permission to attend the Maclay Regional in another loaction, donât know what will happen there but both of them do not wish to go to KY alone and said quote, âin the end itâs just another class and not the end of the world to miss it.â
One of the assistant trainers got a call from another barn trainer and seems they too decided to skip this show. The two are good friends and the other knew our reasons, they called and cancelled out too. Pretty much got a similar response as we. Now theyâre going to the Tryon show at the end of month and weâre thinking of it too.
There is no need to applaud what we feel is a personal statement. We just simply have decided to make our own small stand for our kids.
Good move Corsica!
I have thought about this thread a lot since it started. Hereâs what I donât get: This group (parents who can afford this sport for their children) is one of the richest demographics. No - this is not about money - bu this is about a small fact: if this group decided that they were not going to tolerate this situation - BAM - it would change. This group has plenty of wherewithal to affect change here.
I am really baffled by the show managements who are continuing to hire this individual, especially after the parole violations a few years ago. Come on folks - horse show announcer is not that rare of a skill. The announcer is HIRED - itâs not like this person puts on the shows himself, and you thus have to attend his shows.
Put the pressure on horse show management. Turn the heat up and raise the visibility, like Corsica described, if you donât like this situation. There must be some weird dynamic which is keeping this person in this unsuitable role. âNo one says anythingâ will be the excuse which keeps it going.
[QUOTE=hillary again;2647090]
I have thought about this thread a lot since it started. Hereâs what I donât get: This group (parents who can afford this sport for their children) is one of the richest demographics. No - this is not about money - bu this is about a small fact: if this group decided that they were not going to tolerate this situation - BAM - it would change. This group has plenty of wherewithal to affect change here.
I am really baffled by the show managements who are continuing to hire this individual, especially after the parole violations a few years ago. Come on folks - horse show announcer is not that rare of a skill. The announcer is HIRED - itâs not like this person puts on the shows himself, and you thus have to attend his shows.
Put the pressure on horse show management. Turn the heat up and raise the visibility, like Corsica described, if you donât like this situation. There must be some weird dynamic which is keeping this person in this unsuitable role. âNo one says anythingâ will be the excuse which keeps it going.[/QUOTE]
It would be nice to see it happen but the people to which the two individuals in question answer to are not the majority of people involved in the sport. The people they do answer to in fact, are for the most part just as bad as they are and like it or not, they are the ones who have the power in the h/j world. Much of the money that pays for the sport at that level comes from people who you really wouldnât want to be in the same room with if you knew the kinds of things they had done and the lives they had ruined to make a quick buck and those same people are closely tied to show management and in fact, many of them own the venues that the shows are held in. As long as they see green, everything is just peachy.
In the particular case of one of these individuals, removing them from the show scene would be nearly impossible due to his social standing in the East Coast equestrian world and his employer who has the clout to keep him right where he is and doesnât care otherwise as long as nobody at that level complains. Unless he gets caught doing something, heâs there to stay. The other is probably going to either disappear entirely or his supporters will turn him into some kind of inspiring comeback hero story after his ârehabâ is complete. To be honest, I think only one of them is likely to go if at all and the USEF really needs to take a permanent stance against those who should not be involved in their development programs but the bottom line with them and bad behavior is âDid it involve horses?â and thatâs only because the FEI requires them to have it as the NGB for the sport.
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