The California Vet Med Board (CVMB) has already shut down equine dentists, acupuncturists and chiropractors who don’t work with a veterinarian on-site. They are now trying to do the same with massage therapy and swim therapy. The way they’ve defined “The practice of veterinary medicine,” they can do a whole lot more. Their enforcement measures consist of stings based on complaints( mostly by competing veterinarians), fines of thousands of dollars and threat of other legal action Iem they are not very nice about it and don’t give warning letters. In Arizona, they shut down low-cost vaccination clinics. Don’t think it can’t happen here. I was at a meeting where they were bouncing that idea around.
California Alliance for Animal Owners Rights (www.CalAAOR.com) is working on getting a bill sponsored that will allow animal owners to seek care from non-veterinarians, just as SB 577 allowed people to use acupuncturists and other alternative care with out threat of action by the Medical Board. We need signatures for our petition and even more importantly clubs and associations to sign a letter of support. Please check out our website and the FB page for California Alliance for Animal Owners Rights.
I appreciate your concern, and I consider such actions are based mainly on the members’ greed rather than animal protection. Is the CMVB an official arm of the CA state govt., or an advisory board?
Regardless, I believe that rules and laws that go against common sense are regularly circumvented by those who will be affected. Sort of like prohibition.
[QUOTE=Calif Valley Vet;8500949]
In Arizona, they shut down low-cost vaccination clinics. Don’t think it can’t happen here. I was at a meeting where they were bouncing that idea around.[/QUOTE]
How can they do that? Are some places setting up these clinics without a vet? That would be wrong, in my opinion.
Dentists and massage and whatnot practitioners will just limit themselves to clients they know aren’t going to turn them in. My dentist works both with and without a vet. Dunno if we have laws on the books here in IL.
[QUOTE=Calif Valley Vet;8500949]
In Arizona, they shut down low-cost vaccination clinics.[/QUOTE]
I would not like having massage therapists regulated like that, but I think rehab facilities (who would offer swim therapy) should have a vet they work closely with, for a variety of reasons. I would also never use a dentist that is not a vet, personally, given the amount of sedation required for dental work, the possibility of needing Xrays, etc.
Acupuncturists, chiropractors , and dentists need to be licensed DVM’s or work closely with them.
I presume the low cost vaccine clinics in AZ that were shut down did not have a licensed DVM attending.
And the comparison to human medicine is not valid as human equivalents have much more extensive schooling as well as their own licensing requirements.
Maybe I am the only one but I think more regulation is needed. Too many people think they can offer medical services to equines with a two day course. I wish more focus could be on farriers and trimmers first since that is another service being provided by those with little to no training half of the time. I have spent six years learning farrier work and I still do not consider myself a pro yet those who only learn online are trimming horses as a job. :no:
Massage therapists for humans need to take a two year course and regulated testing. To do the same work on horses only requires an unregulated course of any duration. Same with dental work-I cringe when I see two day “courses” since there is no way anyone is learning what they need to in this time.
[QUOTE=melhorse;8501732]
Maybe I am the only one but I think more regulation is needed. Too many people think they can offer medical services to equines with a two day course. I wish more focus could be on farriers and trimmers first since that is another service being provided by those with little to no training half of the time. I have spent six years learning farrier work and I still do not consider myself a pro yet those who only learn online are trimming horses as a job. :no:
Massage therapists for humans need to take a two year course and regulated testing. To do the same work on horses only requires an unregulated course of any duration. Same with dental work-I cringe when I see two day “courses” since there is no way anyone is learning what they need to in this time.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like different regulation is needed. Not the has to have a vet on sight. Maybe only certified journeyman farrier’s can practice in a state. Or have certain massage therapy, dentistry schools that they have to graduate from to obtain the license. This would cut out the 2 day course crap.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8501629]
I would not like having massage therapists regulated like that, but I think rehab facilities (who would offer swim therapy) should have a vet they work closely with, for a variety of reasons. I would also never use a dentist that is not a vet, personally, given the amount of sedation required for dental work, the possibility of needing Xrays, etc.[/QUOTE]
My massage therapist has a aqua-tredmill. She is a licensed human massage therapist and a licensed equine therapist. I don’t really see the need for her to work closely with a vet. She has a huge amount of anatomy knowledge.
There is also a local place that does the swimming therapy. I believe more for fitness than rehab. Boyd Martin sends his horses there. I think she also gets in a number of race horses. I do not see the need for her to have to work with a vet. Where do you cleanly draw a line between fitness, reconditioning and rehab.
My horse went to the aquatred because he traveled crooked. The aquatred helped him develop in a way to travel straight. It was not rehab.
[QUOTE=SonnysMom;8501847]
My massage therapist has a aqua-tredmill. She is a licensed human massage therapist and a licensed equine therapist. I don’t really see the need for her to work closely with a vet. She has a huge amount of anatomy knowledge.
There is also a local place that does the swimming therapy. I believe more for fitness than rehab. Boyd Martin sends his horses there. I think she also gets in a number of race horses. I do not see the need for her to have to work with a vet. Where do you cleanly draw a line between fitness, reconditioning and rehab.
My horse went to the aquatred because he traveled crooked. The aquatred helped him develop in a way to travel straight. It was not rehab.[/QUOTE]
The bolded sounds a lot like physical therapy to me, although not injury recovery therapy. I’ve spoken with vets who have first-hand knowledge of working with horses in things like aqua treadmill, and they have strong opinions that anyone using such equipment should at least have a vet on full time staff. Perhaps it’s because they have seen what can go wrong even with skilled handlers? I don’t see how you could stay in business only offering swimming and aqua tread for (non-injury) exercise PT and not also offer injury rehab services. Should we even draw a line between rehab and PT? We humans go to physical therapists with doctorate degrees. My licensed massage therapist does not claim to be a licensed PT. Why would we not want equine PTs to have some more school and training than massage therapists?
[QUOTE=Hermein;8501317]
I appreciate your concern, and I consider such actions are based mainly on the members’ greed rather than animal protection. Is the CMVB an official arm of the CA state govt., or an advisory board?
Regardless, I believe that rules and laws that go against common sense are regularly circumvented by those who will be affected. Sort of like prohibition.[/QUOTE]
This made me smile. My great grandmother refused to close her bar during prohibition because she thought it was a stupid law. She ended up spending time in the “house of correction” and “met the nicest people there”!
[QUOTE=roseymare;8501722]
Acupuncturists, chiropractors , and dentists need to be licensed DVM’s or work closely with them.
I presume the low cost vaccine clinics in AZ that were shut down did not have a licensed DVM attending.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think this is necessary at all. There isn’t any reason for acupuncturists and chiropractors to be DVM. They should be trained but not to the extent of a DVM. Is the state going to tell an owner that they can’t do TTouch on their horse, or other treatments because they aren’t a DVM? I can’t imagine the vast majority of horse owners paying attention to these rules.
Maybe another way to eliminate horses/and or make every horse owner into a convict.
I think this is about money, not the welfare of the horse.
I think melhorse has nailed it. Yes, there are great equine dentists out there., and very knowledgeable massage therapists, but there are others I wouldn’t let near my horse.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8501853]
The bolded sounds a lot like physical therapy to me, although not injury recovery therapy. I’ve spoken with vets who have first-hand knowledge of working with horses in things like aqua treadmill, and they have strong opinions that anyone using such equipment should at least have a vet on full time staff. Perhaps it’s because they have seen what can go wrong even with skilled handlers? I don’t see how you could stay in business only offering swimming and aqua tread for (non-injury) exercise PT and not also offer injury rehab services. Should we even draw a line between rehab and PT? We humans go to physical therapists with doctorate degrees. My licensed massage therapist does not claim to be a licensed PT. Why would we not want equine PTs to have some more school and training than massage therapists?[/QUOTE]
You have to have a PT degree in humans in order to go to the masters program PT for equine and Canine. I believe these degrees are only offered in the UK now. My client, human PT, for over 20yrs has her equine/canine masters from Uni of Queensland. Anyone saying they are a equine PT without their human PT is misleading people and they are NOT qualified. They would be risking their license if they do not have the Masters degree from a University. Any true PT saying they are qualified to work on horses or dogs should be working with a vet through referrals. A veterinarian diagnosis must be done first, then the PT is done from there.
[QUOTE=pezk;8501875]
I don’t think this is necessary at all. There isn’t any reason for acupuncturists and chiropractors to be DVM. They should be trained but not to the extent of a DVM. Is the state going to tell an owner that they can’t do TTouch on their horse, or other treatments because they aren’t a DVM? I can’t imagine the vast majority of horse owners paying attention to these rules.
Maybe another way to eliminate horses/and or make every horse owner into a convict.
I think this is about money, not the welfare of the horse.[/QUOTE]
You can do what ever you want to your own animal, you however can not see medical services to others for their animals.
[QUOTE=melhorse;8501732]
Maybe I am the only one but I think more regulation is needed. … Massage therapists for humans need to take a two year course and regulated testing. To do the same work on horses only requires an unregulated course of any duration. Same with dental work-I cringe when I see two day “courses” since there is no way anyone is learning what they need to in this time.[/QUOTE]
I tend to agree about the short courses that crank out “certified” professionals. I run into these regularly. In fact, I think some of the lack of education/understanding and the resulting crazy claims of some of these can lead to understandable veterinarian concerns about horse owners being misled into seeking a complementary therapy in place of needed medical intervention.
However, I am an animal massage therapist who graduated from a school comparable to what human massage therapists attend. (A few vets from the US and overseas have attended this school to learn more about massage … but they universally refer to a full-time massage therapist rather than including massage in their offerings.) I get regular referrals from DVMs. Many of us have attended a human school in addition to the animal school. And in reality, even the graduates of short courses who last in the business end up attending a proper school at some point. There is, granted, a greater degree of “buyer beware” than there should be about picking a massage therapist, dentist, farrier, etc. … but there are also plenty of highly trained and well-qualified practitioners out there.
The answer for us is one several states have already embraced: Required state-by-state licensing of massage therapists just as for humans. There is a voluntary exam offered by our professional association for those who have completed sufficient schooling (week-long or two-day courses need not apply); the states who have licensing have adopted this test. I personally support this. On either a national level or a state-by-state one, there should be minimum educational requirements and a mandatory licensing exam, with mandatory CE to maintain one’s license. That is what I would like to see happen.
Putting non-veterinary professionals under the “veterinary medicine” rubric is not the answer. As noted, these suggestions often come up as a result of a personal conflict between certain individuals. These modalities are not veterinary medicine any more than their human equivalents are human medicine. There are some things a vet just isn’t going to offer. And I will fight right to the ground in the states in which I work to prevent draconian definitions of “veterinary medicine” from limiting horse owners choices of non-medical practitioners.
[QUOTE=Justmyluck;8502141]
You can do what ever you want to your own animal, you however can not see medical services to others for their animals.[/QUOTE]
Depends on how medical services is defined. Horse owners, BM, routinely help each other with horse treatments. Are you going to require every BM to have a DVM because they might give shots, do treatments, give medications etc?
Something weird with my computer.
